Me

Jul 14, 08 - 1:54 PM

The CIA

I cant remember what thread it was on, but recently I have read some posts about closing the CIA and moving it to the ISV, an idea that tends to get critiqued because of the public transport infrastructure and the fact that the CIA - although pretty ugly - does seem to be doing quite well for itself in terms of bringing a decent line-up to Cardiff.

I'd like to point out that it will also become quite an important building in the new city centre layout, because it will be the building framing the end of the new curved walkway passing between SD2 and John Lewis. It will be much better connected to the rest of the city centre (which would make it a more attractive destination), and in a way become a kind of figure head building as a natural end point to a main route out of the Hayes.

Would love to hear it was having a re-furb mind... although I suspect it might not while possible talk of a relocation exists.

Karl

Jul 14th, 2008 - 2:11 PM

Re: The CIA

I always thought the CIA was ok as a building - not awful if a little unambitious. It also represents a certain style of 80's architecture. The dragon on the outside is a bit naff though. Having been to a number of gigs there the inside is a bit dire but functional.

I'd prefer to have this type of venue here than at the ISV. Much more accessible. I'm sure I also read that there will be a small square fronting it when SD2 is finally finished as well.

I would like to see the Park Hotel (formerly Jury's) opposite raised to the ground though. That is poxy beyond belief.

DRJones

Jul 14th, 2008 - 2:22 PM

Re: The CIA

i'd agree that it's an ok building, probably better there than in the ISV, tho i had heard about it going to Havannah Quay, i think the mastreplan included some music venue.
Also i have heard somewhere that they planned a refurb of it, possibly on the other forum.
The Jury's hotel must go though, it's exterior is terrible, probably among the worst of postmodernist desings (along with the capitol centre). I went to a prom there recently and it's not bad on the inside, tho not special, all white and looks like the exterior of a victorian building.

anyway, i always thought that if the CIA were to go, the site would make a brilliant opportunity for a second museum (like a natural history, or science) for the national museum, as cathays park is bursting at the seems

Karl

Jul 14th, 2008 - 2:26 PM

Re: The CIA

I think the arena planned for Havannah Quay is 800 capacity to fill the gap between small venues like Clwb, the Point etc and bigger venues like CIA. Only the Students Union fills that gap at present.

Starscream

Jul 14th, 2008 - 4:55 PM

Re: The CIA

The location of the CIA is great, but it's not a good enough facility compared with the equivalent venues in other UK cities IMO.

Ideally I'd like to see an improved version on the same site, but the plan is for an arena to be built at the ISV. I don't see any need for the CIA after that.

Furthermore, I would guess the Arms Park land will be used for a conference centre so the CIA wouldn't need to fill that need.

There is a post on the Skyscrapercity Forum saying the Council are talking to the CIA about moving to the ISV and that Orion land and leisure are submitted plans for the snow box and a hotel. Does anyone have a link to the council planning apps?

Thanks in advance!

Cambo_Dai

Jul 14th, 2008 - 5:40 PM

Re: The CIA

It isn't yet a planning app - its a submission to the executive committee. Only the agenda for discussion is available publically - the plans and the council's opinions on them are both confidential.

Starscream

Jul 14th, 2008 - 5:49 PM

Re: The CIA

Hey Cambo, where do I find the agenda for discussion? Also - if you don't mind could you (or whoever reads this first) explain the stages briefly as I have a virtually non-existent knowledge of the process.

Many Thanks

Lyndon

Jul 14th, 2008 - 5:57 PM

Re: The CIA

The agenda for today's meeting is here:

http://www.cardiff.gov.uk/content.asp?id=2292&$state=calendarmeeting&$committeeID=1421&$meetingdate=14/07/2008&$eventrec=5589

Lyndon

Jul 14th, 2008 - 5:58 PM

Re: The CIA

Let's try tiny url:

http://tiny.cc/olJGR

Starscream

Jul 14th, 2008 - 6:06 PM

Re: The CIA

Cheers Lyndon - as everyone knows I'm just a little obsessed with this project

Me

Jul 14th, 2008 - 6:07 PM

Re: The CIA

The bit about the CIA says:

--------------
Orion’s existing development agreement with the Council provides that the multi-purpose arena may be excluded from Orion’s development package if the Council identifies an alternative method of development and Orion is not able to match that proposal in terms of value for money. The Council has had contact with the owner of the Cardiff International Arena (CIA) who has confirmed that it would be prepared enter into discussions regarding a move to ISV. The CIA is held on a long lease
from the Council with a restricted use clause. Discussions with the owner of the CIA are ongoing with a view to negotiating heads of terms and it is intended to continue those negotiations with a view to
establishing a viable method of delivering the arena. The owner of the CIA requires a minimum 8000 capacity arena. An appropriate procurement process will need to be followed in respect of the arena development.
--------------

The recommendations (to the committee, not by the committee) suggest:

---------------
further negotiations with an operator in regard to the arena, leading to a report back on a proposed agreement and a financial appraisal, which will include a revised scheme with funding and programme proposals and is to be finalised within 3 months.
---------------

We'll continue this thread in October then!

Starscream

Jul 14th, 2008 - 6:28 PM

Re: The CIA

But before we do......

Is the risk assessment appendix based on likelyhood the of a problem or just potential problems.

The way I read it is that if the arena was not to be built it would have a severe impact (in their opinion) on the council's reputation.

But, does it mean the potential shortfall in money to fund the arena is likely or just that it would be a severe problem for the council if they couldn't find the cash?

I hope that makes sense.

Author	Comment
Me Jul 14, 08 - 1:54 PM	The CIA I cant remember what thread it was on, but recently I have read some posts about closing the CIA and moving it to the ISV, an idea that tends to get critiqued because of the public transport infrastructure and the fact that the CIA - although pretty ugly - does seem to be doing quite well for itself in terms of bringing a decent line-up to Cardiff. I'd like to point out that it will also become quite an important building in the new city centre layout, because it will be the building framing the end of the new curved walkway passing between SD2 and John Lewis. It will be much better connected to the rest of the city centre (which would make it a more attractive destination), and in a way become a kind of figure head building as a natural end point to a main route out of the Hayes. Would love to hear it was having a re-furb mind... although I suspect it might not while possible talk of a relocation exists.
Karl Jul 14th, 2008 - 2:11 PM	Re: The CIA I always thought the CIA was ok as a building - not awful if a little unambitious. It also represents a certain style of 80's architecture. The dragon on the outside is a bit naff though. Having been to a number of gigs there the inside is a bit dire but functional. I'd prefer to have this type of venue here than at the ISV. Much more accessible. I'm sure I also read that there will be a small square fronting it when SD2 is finally finished as well. I would like to see the Park Hotel (formerly Jury's) opposite raised to the ground though. That is poxy beyond belief. Email: thomask1969@hotmail.com
DRJones Jul 14th, 2008 - 2:22 PM	Re: The CIA i'd agree that it's an ok building, probably better there than in the ISV, tho i had heard about it going to Havannah Quay, i think the mastreplan included some music venue. Also i have heard somewhere that they planned a refurb of it, possibly on the other forum. The Jury's hotel must go though, it's exterior is terrible, probably among the worst of postmodernist desings (along with the capitol centre). I went to a prom there recently and it's not bad on the inside, tho not special, all white and looks like the exterior of a victorian building. anyway, i always thought that if the CIA were to go, the site would make a brilliant opportunity for a second museum (like a natural history, or science) for the national museum, as cathays park is bursting at the seems
Karl Jul 14th, 2008 - 2:26 PM	Re: The CIA I think the arena planned for Havannah Quay is 800 capacity to fill the gap between small venues like Clwb, the Point etc and bigger venues like CIA. Only the Students Union fills that gap at present. Email: thomask1969@hotmail.com
Starscream Jul 14th, 2008 - 4:55 PM	Re: The CIA The location of the CIA is great, but it's not a good enough facility compared with the equivalent venues in other UK cities IMO. Ideally I'd like to see an improved version on the same site, but the plan is for an arena to be built at the ISV. I don't see any need for the CIA after that. Furthermore, I would guess the Arms Park land will be used for a conference centre so the CIA wouldn't need to fill that need. There is a post on the Skyscrapercity Forum saying the Council are talking to the CIA about moving to the ISV and that Orion land and leisure are submitted plans for the snow box and a hotel. Does anyone have a link to the council planning apps? Thanks in advance!
Cambo_Dai Jul 14th, 2008 - 5:40 PM	Re: The CIA It isn't yet a planning app - its a submission to the executive committee. Only the agenda for discussion is available publically - the plans and the council's opinions on them are both confidential.
Starscream Jul 14th, 2008 - 5:49 PM	Re: The CIA Hey Cambo, where do I find the agenda for discussion? Also - if you don't mind could you (or whoever reads this first) explain the stages briefly as I have a virtually non-existent knowledge of the process. Many Thanks
Lyndon Jul 14th, 2008 - 5:57 PM	Re: The CIA The agenda for today's meeting is here: http://www.cardiff.gov.uk/content.asp?id=2292&$state=calendarmeeting&$committeeID=1421&$meetingdate=14/07/2008&$eventrec=5589 Email: lyndon666@ntlworld.com
Lyndon Jul 14th, 2008 - 5:58 PM	Re: The CIA Let's try tiny url: http://tiny.cc/olJGR Email: lyndon666@ntlworld.com
Starscream Jul 14th, 2008 - 6:06 PM	Re: The CIA Cheers Lyndon - as everyone knows I'm just a little obsessed with this project
Me Jul 14th, 2008 - 6:07 PM	Re: The CIA The bit about the CIA says: -------------- Orion’s existing development agreement with the Council provides that the multi-purpose arena may be excluded from Orion’s development package if the Council identifies an alternative method of development and Orion is not able to match that proposal in terms of value for money. The Council has had contact with the owner of the Cardiff International Arena (CIA) who has confirmed that it would be prepared enter into discussions regarding a move to ISV. The CIA is held on a long lease from the Council with a restricted use clause. Discussions with the owner of the CIA are ongoing with a view to negotiating heads of terms and it is intended to continue those negotiations with a view to establishing a viable method of delivering the arena. The owner of the CIA requires a minimum 8000 capacity arena. An appropriate procurement process will need to be followed in respect of the arena development. -------------- The recommendations (to the committee, not by the committee) suggest: --------------- further negotiations with an operator in regard to the arena, leading to a report back on a proposed agreement and a financial appraisal, which will include a revised scheme with funding and programme proposals and is to be finalised within 3 months. --------------- We'll continue this thread in October then!
Starscream Jul 14th, 2008 - 6:28 PM	Re: The CIA But before we do...... Is the risk assessment appendix based on likelyhood the of a problem or just potential problems. The way I read it is that if the arena was not to be built it would have a severe impact (in their opinion) on the council's reputation. But, does it mean the potential shortfall in money to fund the arena is likely or just that it would be a severe problem for the council if they couldn't find the cash? I hope that makes sense.