Kyle

Jul 22, 08 - 10:39 AM

Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

For those of you not on the skyscrapercity forum there's an update on there for what we know as being Cambrian Marina. Here's the link

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=22966398#post22966398

...and assuming Christopher doesn't mind here's the content of his post :

Guys,

I own Cambrian Marina...now called Cardiff Marine Group. We will be be proposing a tower on this site. Details follow:

- This year we have concentrated on the build out of the marinas in the river which by the end of the year will extend as far upriver as the end of Victoria Wharf (350 berths). The marina is first class and has the best equipment you can get. You are welcome to visit.
- We will complete building the Cardiff Marine Village centre on Penarth Road. The development is fully tenanted (10 businesses is all). (see www.Cardiffmarinevillage.com)
- We have invested heavily in the development of the service business also. By the end of the year we forecast the creation of around 50 jobs in all.
- Further expansion of the marine business is planned.

As for the main development scheme.

- It will feature a tower designated to a high-end (5*) boutique hotel. I would like the tower to approach 30 floors. The building will feature a skybar rather like the bar on the 24th floor of the Hilton in Manchester.
- Our designers believe that together with the Bay Pointe towers, it will help reference and triangulate the Sports Village site. Our position by the proposed Ely footbridge will mean that the tower will act as a beacon to the corner of the footpath.
- The scheme will be trully integrated. My criticism of schemes around Cardiff is they all face the water with their backs to the road. We will be creating a square and public realm to all sides of this development.
- The development will also feature riverside bars, cafés, niche shops and a designer waterside restaurant. We are well positioned for this with the Bay Edge footpath, Marina and of course the Penarth footbridge.
- We are also proposing owner occupier style apartments that will overlook the white water rafting centre. These will be in a seperate (lower) building.
- The design of all this will be quite different to anything thus far built in the Bay. Expect innovative design and plenty of glass. Sky gardens running up through the buildings will likely be another feature.
- Another criticism I have of many Cardiff schemes is the lack of community surrounding. In time we are seeking to develop a creche, further boutique stores (M&S simply food, hairdressers, doctors' surgery, creche etc). We already have many retailers on board including an anchor tenant for this phase.

Anyway I hope this lifts the veil a little. I would be happy to meet you and show you the plans. I am pleased with how things are going and with reference back to my previous mail we are financialy strong so will be able to see these plans through to delivery.

Discuss

Peter

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 11:12 AM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Two things immediately jolt a response from me.

Firstly Bay Pointe isn't happening is it ? and Secondly there is already a plan for a hotel within the Havannah Quay development, and the developers there have been told to whittle down the number of floors for their hotel.

Also isn't 30 Storeys far too large for a boutique hotel ?

Kyle

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 11:29 AM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Bay Pointe is happening, just delayed I guess. Bay Pointe is on the bay side and this is on the ely side of the peninsula.

I'm curious about the hotel tower myself and I understand what you are saying about Havannah Quay and thinking the council may try to reduce the height on this as well. I think they are aiming it at 30 and it will be reduced to about 20-25 perhaps after planning objections etc. I seriously worry about "overbearing" claims from the VoG council as it is right on the border.

My concern with any of the proposals for towers over 20 storeys is that Cardiff still hasn't got anything definitely being constructed that is breaking the 30 storey mark. Sure there are proposals and a few of them now, but I do wonder about the lack of ambition within the council. I understand that there are times when a proposal isn't suitable, but the Havannah Quay one puzzles me somewhat. I think Cambo queried the lack of commerical space and how the council want to limit it. Personally I think Havannah Quay should be a zone where they have a preference for taller buildings and a larger amount of commercial space than is being proposed.

Back to Cardiff Marine Village...I wonder how tall the proposal for the residential scheme is ? Is it still around the 15 storey mark that we've seen on the old Cambrian Marina website ?

Jantra

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 11:59 AM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Kyle

the good news regarding this development is that where the development is being built is overlooking Cardiff land on the other side (ie Barons Court) so it has nothing to do with VoGC.

If Christopher is really sharp (and he must be as you don't get a £40m per annum investment business from being dull as dishwater) then of course perhaps this development could fund a new rad bridge over the ely and down the other side to Penarth Road, plus also opening up the road to the ely filed sdevelopment (just up from Starbucks drive thru) then really there shouldn't be any objection to traffic by VoGVC or its residents as that would only be one route out of three in this development.

I for one can't wait for Christopher to present to us at the August Forward Cardiff meeting. I am making preparaitons now and to be honest I'm quite excited that we will be getting sneak preview ahead of others.

Jantra

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 12:00 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

apologies for the shocking spelling

Cambo_Dai

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 12:04 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Cardiff's prime retail is very concentrated in the city centre - and in two areas really: around Queen Street and the Hayes (and arcades). In many ways this is a good thing as it makes the city attractive to visitors and easy to shop. The council has a policy of protecting this core shopping area and some protection is probably deserved. There are definitely network externalities in having a dense city centre (i.e. others gain from your decision to locate in the city centre, particularly if you an 'anchor').

But I do think they were far too restrictive on the shopping front in Havannah Quay. They are allowing over 60,000 square feet of restaurants and bars - about 10 or so largish units - but are restricting the shopping to convenience only. What about a bank? Or say one or two clothing of gift shops? Or an Estate Agents or a book shop? If the site is to fulfill its potential it should become a nice thoroughfair to the city although this will require something being done to Penarth Road and the Brains site.

Kyle

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 12:17 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Thanks Jantra, I'd forgotten it was actually the other side. That's very good news actually in terms of potential noise from the VoG council.

It's nice to hear of another proposal for a tower...and as you say the guy seems to have good intentions regarding design etc. We'll see I guess.

Cambo, on your point over the restrictions on Havannah Quay I couldnt' agree more.

Peter

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 1:31 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Is Havannah Quay moving forward ? I work close by and hear on the ground of delays

Kyle

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 1:52 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Peter, I'm sure we'd all like to know what you've heared because I certainly haven't heared a thing about Havannah Quay for months.

Peter

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 2:49 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

I was talking to some of the guys who work on Curran Embankment which is in between the big yellow storage company and kwik fit. They were given notice that they were to be moving out of their work premises about now six months ago. They've now been told the develoment is now 'put back' I've also noticed the old foundry site has opened as a makeshift car park, which suggests to me the owners are trying to generate some income as the cleared site is not about to be immediately developed.

There are little indications all around the proposed development area that things are delayed. I was under the impression things were starting about now, but nothing at all has happened.

Kyle

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 2:59 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

It's gone very, very glass needle like quiet so what you've just said kind of fits with the lack of news. The problem is that a large proportion of this was going to be residential...and we all know what is happening to that market at the moment. Whether they could get on with the commercial or hotel element I don't know. Is the funding for it even sorted ?

It has the potential to be a HUGE asset to the city, but maybe we won't see any of it for years yet...which is fine, but it would be nice to be told.

Kyle

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 3:35 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Time for some photos of the Marina development for those that haven't been to their website yet.

Time to get some pictures up on the development. These are from the website link in my first post.

For those that don't know where it is

The marina village

A VERY small picture of the apartments. Can anyone get a larger image on here ?

Nowt on the hotel yet, which I guess will be presented at the Forward Cardiff meeting.

paul-cardiff

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 3:53 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Fair play Christopher is very upbeat - isn't it great to hear positive news about the sports village!! oh and if I'm not mistaken we haven't had a monsoon in the last 3days!! happy days are here again!! Hopefully Christopher will happen upon this forum also in the not too distant

He's certainly be very welcome.

Peter

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 4:11 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

yes, sorry to hijack the thread with talk of Havannah Quay

Cambo_Dai

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 4:12 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

I thought it was gonna be the September meeting he was coming to to time it with his planning app. If its gonna be in August I want a video camera and photos of all the plans!!

Kyle

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 4:25 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Peter, no apologies needed. I'm one of the worst for deviating from the main purpose of the thread.

Paul, I posted a hint towards this forum on skyscrapercity. Let's hope he visits, but yes it is quite nice to seem him engaging us. Makes a nice change...although the guy from Igloo for Roath Basin has been equally helpful in fairness

paul-cardiff

Jul 22nd, 2008 - 5:14 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Cheers Kyle - much appreciated

Christopher

Aug 15th, 2008 - 6:46 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

All,

Have spotted the dialogue now!

I can confirm we are working up our plans and are aiming to submit to planners in mid-Sept.

I would welcome the opportunity to present the plans to you early Sept (around 2nd Sept perhaps). I do not expect you will be disappointed. It is extremely dynamic and I have to say I am very excited with it. I am hoping that you and the rest of Cardiff will feel the same way.

Not sure how to organise a meeting. I can come with a laptop and presentation and would suggest meeting in a bar early on evening.

Christopher

Aug 15th, 2008 - 6:56 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

...and one last thing. I do not fit the sterotype mean property developer. I am young (mid thirties) and a relaxed chap so come for a social evening. I'm switched on too (otherwise I wouldn't be doing his kind of work) but not arogant and keen to learn what others think. The worst outcome for me is that you learn a bit more about our investment programme and businesses in Cardiff. The marine side of the investment is no small deal either.

paul-cardiff

Aug 15th, 2008 - 7:02 PM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Nice one christopher! oh and welcome to this forum - we keep an eye on everything that's going on in cardiff!!

From my own point of view I don't want to miss this one!! so if someone or yourself christopher comes up with a time and a place then by hook or by crook I'LL BE THERE!!

jantra

Aug 16th, 2008 - 7:31 AM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Christopher

Forward Cardiff meet at my offices on mountstuart square. Its very relaxing and we do like to drink a little. Should you wish you can present to us here. let me know what you think.

you can email me at damianevans@esquare.co.uk

thanks

Christopher

Aug 16th, 2008 - 8:02 AM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

Okay...that's great. Please could you drop me a line at the end of August at chris@cardiffmarinegroup.com and we can arrange exact date and details. If you have a data projector available that would be a help. Look forward to the meeting.

jantra

Aug 16th, 2008 - 8:18 AM

Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina

will do Christopher

Author	Comment
Kyle Jul 22, 08 - 10:39 AM	Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina For those of you not on the skyscrapercity forum there's an update on there for what we know as being Cambrian Marina. Here's the link http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=22966398#post22966398 ...and assuming Christopher doesn't mind here's the content of his post : Guys, I own Cambrian Marina...now called Cardiff Marine Group. We will be be proposing a tower on this site. Details follow: - This year we have concentrated on the build out of the marinas in the river which by the end of the year will extend as far upriver as the end of Victoria Wharf (350 berths). The marina is first class and has the best equipment you can get. You are welcome to visit. - We will complete building the Cardiff Marine Village centre on Penarth Road. The development is fully tenanted (10 businesses is all). (see www.Cardiffmarinevillage.com) - We have invested heavily in the development of the service business also. By the end of the year we forecast the creation of around 50 jobs in all. - Further expansion of the marine business is planned. As for the main development scheme. - It will feature a tower designated to a high-end (5*) boutique hotel. I would like the tower to approach 30 floors. The building will feature a skybar rather like the bar on the 24th floor of the Hilton in Manchester. - Our designers believe that together with the Bay Pointe towers, it will help reference and triangulate the Sports Village site. Our position by the proposed Ely footbridge will mean that the tower will act as a beacon to the corner of the footpath. - The scheme will be trully integrated. My criticism of schemes around Cardiff is they all face the water with their backs to the road. We will be creating a square and public realm to all sides of this development. - The development will also feature riverside bars, cafés, niche shops and a designer waterside restaurant. We are well positioned for this with the Bay Edge footpath, Marina and of course the Penarth footbridge. - We are also proposing owner occupier style apartments that will overlook the white water rafting centre. These will be in a seperate (lower) building. - The design of all this will be quite different to anything thus far built in the Bay. Expect innovative design and plenty of glass. Sky gardens running up through the buildings will likely be another feature. - Another criticism I have of many Cardiff schemes is the lack of community surrounding. In time we are seeking to develop a creche, further boutique stores (M&S simply food, hairdressers, doctors' surgery, creche etc). We already have many retailers on board including an anchor tenant for this phase. Anyway I hope this lifts the veil a little. I would be happy to meet you and show you the plans. I am pleased with how things are going and with reference back to my previous mail we are financialy strong so will be able to see these plans through to delivery. Discuss
Peter Jul 22nd, 2008 - 11:12 AM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Two things immediately jolt a response from me. Firstly Bay Pointe isn't happening is it ? and Secondly there is already a plan for a hotel within the Havannah Quay development, and the developers there have been told to whittle down the number of floors for their hotel. Also isn't 30 Storeys far too large for a boutique hotel ?
Kyle Jul 22nd, 2008 - 11:29 AM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Bay Pointe is happening, just delayed I guess. Bay Pointe is on the bay side and this is on the ely side of the peninsula. I'm curious about the hotel tower myself and I understand what you are saying about Havannah Quay and thinking the council may try to reduce the height on this as well. I think they are aiming it at 30 and it will be reduced to about 20-25 perhaps after planning objections etc. I seriously worry about "overbearing" claims from the VoG council as it is right on the border. My concern with any of the proposals for towers over 20 storeys is that Cardiff still hasn't got anything definitely being constructed that is breaking the 30 storey mark. Sure there are proposals and a few of them now, but I do wonder about the lack of ambition within the council. I understand that there are times when a proposal isn't suitable, but the Havannah Quay one puzzles me somewhat. I think Cambo queried the lack of commerical space and how the council want to limit it. Personally I think Havannah Quay should be a zone where they have a preference for taller buildings and a larger amount of commercial space than is being proposed. Back to Cardiff Marine Village...I wonder how tall the proposal for the residential scheme is ? Is it still around the 15 storey mark that we've seen on the old Cambrian Marina website ?
Jantra Jul 22nd, 2008 - 11:59 AM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Kyle the good news regarding this development is that where the development is being built is overlooking Cardiff land on the other side (ie Barons Court) so it has nothing to do with VoGC. If Christopher is really sharp (and he must be as you don't get a £40m per annum investment business from being dull as dishwater) then of course perhaps this development could fund a new rad bridge over the ely and down the other side to Penarth Road, plus also opening up the road to the ely filed sdevelopment (just up from Starbucks drive thru) then really there shouldn't be any objection to traffic by VoGVC or its residents as that would only be one route out of three in this development. I for one can't wait for Christopher to present to us at the August Forward Cardiff meeting. I am making preparaitons now and to be honest I'm quite excited that we will be getting sneak preview ahead of others.
Jantra Jul 22nd, 2008 - 12:00 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina apologies for the shocking spelling
Cambo_Dai Jul 22nd, 2008 - 12:04 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Cardiff's prime retail is very concentrated in the city centre - and in two areas really: around Queen Street and the Hayes (and arcades). In many ways this is a good thing as it makes the city attractive to visitors and easy to shop. The council has a policy of protecting this core shopping area and some protection is probably deserved. There are definitely network externalities in having a dense city centre (i.e. others gain from your decision to locate in the city centre, particularly if you an 'anchor'). But I do think they were far too restrictive on the shopping front in Havannah Quay. They are allowing over 60,000 square feet of restaurants and bars - about 10 or so largish units - but are restricting the shopping to convenience only. What about a bank? Or say one or two clothing of gift shops? Or an Estate Agents or a book shop? If the site is to fulfill its potential it should become a nice thoroughfair to the city although this will require something being done to Penarth Road and the Brains site.
Kyle Jul 22nd, 2008 - 12:17 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Thanks Jantra, I'd forgotten it was actually the other side. That's very good news actually in terms of potential noise from the VoG council. It's nice to hear of another proposal for a tower...and as you say the guy seems to have good intentions regarding design etc. We'll see I guess. Cambo, on your point over the restrictions on Havannah Quay I couldnt' agree more.
Peter Jul 22nd, 2008 - 1:31 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Is Havannah Quay moving forward ? I work close by and hear on the ground of delays
Kyle Jul 22nd, 2008 - 1:52 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Peter, I'm sure we'd all like to know what you've heared because I certainly haven't heared a thing about Havannah Quay for months.
Peter Jul 22nd, 2008 - 2:49 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina I was talking to some of the guys who work on Curran Embankment which is in between the big yellow storage company and kwik fit. They were given notice that they were to be moving out of their work premises about now six months ago. They've now been told the develoment is now 'put back' I've also noticed the old foundry site has opened as a makeshift car park, which suggests to me the owners are trying to generate some income as the cleared site is not about to be immediately developed. There are little indications all around the proposed development area that things are delayed. I was under the impression things were starting about now, but nothing at all has happened.
Kyle Jul 22nd, 2008 - 2:59 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina It's gone very, very glass needle like quiet so what you've just said kind of fits with the lack of news. The problem is that a large proportion of this was going to be residential...and we all know what is happening to that market at the moment. Whether they could get on with the commercial or hotel element I don't know. Is the funding for it even sorted ? It has the potential to be a HUGE asset to the city, but maybe we won't see any of it for years yet...which is fine, but it would be nice to be told.
Kyle Jul 22nd, 2008 - 3:35 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Time for some photos of the Marina development for those that haven't been to their website yet. Time to get some pictures up on the development. These are from the website link in my first post. For those that don't know where it is The marina village A VERY small picture of the apartments. Can anyone get a larger image on here ? Nowt on the hotel yet, which I guess will be presented at the Forward Cardiff meeting.
paul-cardiff Jul 22nd, 2008 - 3:53 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Fair play Christopher is very upbeat - isn't it great to hear positive news about the sports village!! oh and if I'm not mistaken we haven't had a monsoon in the last 3days!! happy days are here again!! Hopefully Christopher will happen upon this forum also in the not too distant He's certainly be very welcome.
Peter Jul 22nd, 2008 - 4:11 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina yes, sorry to hijack the thread with talk of Havannah Quay
Cambo_Dai Jul 22nd, 2008 - 4:12 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina I thought it was gonna be the September meeting he was coming to to time it with his planning app. If its gonna be in August I want a video camera and photos of all the plans!!
Kyle Jul 22nd, 2008 - 4:25 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Peter, no apologies needed. I'm one of the worst for deviating from the main purpose of the thread. Paul, I posted a hint towards this forum on skyscrapercity. Let's hope he visits, but yes it is quite nice to seem him engaging us. Makes a nice change...although the guy from Igloo for Roath Basin has been equally helpful in fairness
paul-cardiff Jul 22nd, 2008 - 5:14 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Cheers Kyle - much appreciated
Christopher Aug 15th, 2008 - 6:46 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina All, Have spotted the dialogue now! I can confirm we are working up our plans and are aiming to submit to planners in mid-Sept. I would welcome the opportunity to present the plans to you early Sept (around 2nd Sept perhaps). I do not expect you will be disappointed. It is extremely dynamic and I have to say I am very excited with it. I am hoping that you and the rest of Cardiff will feel the same way. Not sure how to organise a meeting. I can come with a laptop and presentation and would suggest meeting in a bar early on evening.
Christopher Aug 15th, 2008 - 6:56 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina ...and one last thing. I do not fit the sterotype mean property developer. I am young (mid thirties) and a relaxed chap so come for a social evening. I'm switched on too (otherwise I wouldn't be doing his kind of work) but not arogant and keen to learn what others think. The worst outcome for me is that you learn a bit more about our investment programme and businesses in Cardiff. The marine side of the investment is no small deal either.
paul-cardiff Aug 15th, 2008 - 7:02 PM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Nice one christopher! oh and welcome to this forum - we keep an eye on everything that's going on in cardiff!! From my own point of view I don't want to miss this one!! so if someone or yourself christopher comes up with a time and a place then by hook or by crook I'LL BE THERE!!
jantra Aug 16th, 2008 - 7:31 AM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Christopher Forward Cardiff meet at my offices on mountstuart square. Its very relaxing and we do like to drink a little. Should you wish you can present to us here. let me know what you think. you can email me at damianevans@esquare.co.uk thanks
Christopher Aug 16th, 2008 - 8:02 AM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina Okay...that's great. Please could you drop me a line at the end of August at chris@cardiffmarinegroup.com and we can arrange exact date and details. If you have a data projector available that would be a help. Look forward to the meeting. Email: chris@cardiffmarinegroup.com
jantra Aug 16th, 2008 - 8:18 AM	Re: Cardiff Marine Village / Cambrian Marina will do Christopher