Hi
Having seen quite a few cars recently in different states of preservation or neglect described as in 'oily rag' condition - what is the definition of 'oily rag' supposed to be, please?
Regards
Colin

Colin,
This is "The Automobile" definition of "oily rag" condition from their new website:-
Oily Rag

"At The Automobile we don’t just write about old cars, we have our own collection of pre-1960 vehicles which we keep and maintain at our offices in Surrey. We favour cars in Oily Rag condition, that is to say those which are in a fundamentally unrestored state, preferably with original paintwork and interior fittings, but mechanically sound and roadworthy.

While we agree that concours restorations have their place in the old car world, we strongly believe the only way for a car to maintain a sense of history is for it to be preserved in as original a state as possible. For better understanding of the Oily Rag Philosophy, which goes beyond the motoring sphere and into all walks of life, why not visit our sister blog at www.oily-rag.net.

All our cars are used as regularly as possible, whether visiting national and international events or pottering to local VSCC meets, or even being pressed into service by the editorial team for their commutes to and from the office."
Dave.

Location: Sheffield, the home of Hendersons Relish.

Darn you Dave ;-) I just had a look at the blog (oily-rag.net) mentioned in The Automobile spiel and it is fascinating - well written and with terrific photos.There go another few hours I could have spent in the garage.

p.s. I'd pick 'oily rag' over 'concours' any day.

Location: North Herts

Thanks, Dave. This seems clear enough. So when the opportunity arises, conservation rather than restoration is the idea? Still needs competent assessment of structure and mechanicals. Fragility of items like seats must also be an issue. Possibly harder to get right than a typical restoration?

It is too late for my Ruby, though, which has been rebuilt at least twice, even though it is gradually taking on oily rag appearance...
Regards
Colin

Nick,
Very sorry! I haven't had a good look at the website yet. Like you I will probably get drawn into it one evening.Still, it's better than watching "Strictly"
Cheers,
Dave.

Location: Sheffield, the home of Hendersons Relish.

ANYTHING is better than watching 'Strictly'! Or 'BB' or 'Apprentice' or 'TOWIE' or 'Made in Chelsea' etc etc ad nauseam.:-)

Location: North Herts

I do read The Automobile from time to time, but I have yet to grasp this oily rag concept = you don't maintain the body or interior, but you do keep the mechanical bits up to scratch and replace worn out bits. I assume that you replace the tyres as well from time to time as well and the wipers and the lights etc. etc.

I don't see the point of that at all.

Location: SW France

Don

Its worse than that, these muppets with VW's actually sand perfectly good paint off to make them rust!.

Theres a bloke living near one of my mates thats vandalized a VW split bus like this, he was quite taken aback with my reacation to it (I asked him who the idiot was who had sanded all the paint off), I expect probably because it was him!.

When I had a split screen camper 35 years ago, it rusted without any help from me... Colin

Can a relatively new car be called oily rag? A friend here has a beautiful special that is relatively new but looks exactly like a car from the 20s. It's acquired a beautiful patina just from normal use (on the road and racing). No artificial aging required!

I've never worked out if oily rag means totally unrestored or not. I would think it's getting hard to find vintage cars that haven't had something done to them over their history.

Simon

Location: Auckland

Sounds like this car has some of the required characteristics, and therefore goes some way (or even all the way?) towards looking the part. However, originally would appear to be an important feature, as I read it, so perhaps there should be some correspondence between apparent and actual age?
Colin

I thought the "oily rag" idea was just that. If you had a car which had never been resprayed and exhibited surface rust etc, the way to preserve the original paintwork and prevent (or at least slow down) further deterioration was to regularly go over it with a rag soaked in WD40 or similar rather than try polishing it.

I think 'The Automobile' magazine have created a whole new concept and used the 'oily rag' term to define it. In restoring my Swallow, I have used conservation techniques where ever possible to preserve and stabalise the fragile interior. Where this has not been possible, with the head lining for example, I have re created an exact copy using the correct material.

Personally, I am not convinced about the exterior finish argument. Yes, use nitro cellulose if that was what was originally used to obtain a more authentic finish and ideally stick to the original colour scheme(unless you hate it) but unless the paintwork is in reasonable condition and has a nice patina, I would never feel happy with a tatty/rusty heap.

'Oily rag' and 'patina' acceptance must be a car dealer's dream come true!

Location: Derby

As a schoolboy I used to buy, renovate and sell bicycles. If the paintwork was in good order but just dull I would wipe over with an oily rag. The rejuvenating effect often lasted for a day.

Bob Culver

Location: Auckland

controversially I think that in most cases the "oily rag" option is a cop out. The owner is too lazy or too tight to make the car look the same as Herbert Austin intended. Why would anybody want to drive around in a rust bucket.
Somebody had to say it. I will now get my tin helmet and get behind the barricade.

It's a good job that we are all different, It would be boring to all be the same.

I suspect Oily Rag was promoted as a reaction (over reaction) to the US practice of 'restoring' a car within an inch of its life- much as a nice original piece of antique furniture is more appreciated (valuable)than a heavily restored piece.

I like a well cared vehicle with restoration as appropriate to keep it looking well.

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

I can see the sense in preserving the original features of a car where this does not get in the way of the current owner's intentions for it - in my case, sensible road use. In fact, I much prefer an item like the old bent brass choke pull on my Chummy to an unbent reproduction one - it adds character. But, there can't be many cars about that are both original and sensibly practical?
Colin

No-one has mentioned the phrase "Rat-Look"!
Dave.

Location: Sheffield, the home of Hendersons Relish.

Isn'that rather reckless?

Ruairidh,

Just what have you been drinking? The earlier picture of you with a chain saw was enough

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

So I should have left my Ruby looking something like this?



Rather than ending up two years later with this?



Colin

I'm with you Colin, even though you have bumpers on a basi Ruby or a incorrect starting dog on a delux. No matter what you do there is that a---l who will criticise

It's much worse than that - an early Deluxe Ruby body on a late Opal chassis. So much for originality...
Colin

Criticising is easy, keeping it in an oily rag state or restoring fully is hard work.

Your car looks great Colin, use it and enjoy it. Nice to read about your Chummy in the A7CA Mag. recently as well.

Thanks, Ruairidh

I love to see Sevens in unrestored and authentic condition, even if they are knocked about a bit, likewise it's nice to see correctly restored ones... as long as they are driving around, that's the most important thing in my book, which reminds me, I'd better get my finger out...

Location: Near Bicester.

Location: Leafy Hampshire

An interesting discussion- but last post November 2 2014 - what the !@#$%

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Australia.

Hi
Another consideration when using the oily rag approach is what effect does it have medium and long term?

My Ruby has now been back on the road since 1999. Despite the good protection it received during restoration it is now starting to show signs of corrosion again. If it had received minimum attention back then, keeping it in more of an oily rag state, I wonder how much more deterioration there would have been by now?
Regards
Colin

A friend of mine bought a vintage Norton motorcycle that had been completely dismantled and stored in a garage for some 50+ years. The bike was complete except for the gearbox, three days after he purchased it whilst at a club meeting a chap came up to him out of the blue with a Tesco carrier bag and asked any idea what this is from? One Norton gearbox acquired the bike was reassembled and given a rub down with a rag soaked in WD40, with new tyres/tubes, fresh oil and petrol etc it was then taken on a tour of Irland with the VMCC. I won't mention the lack of tax and Mot, but a few months later a sidecar in similar condition was acquired and give the same treatment. Now thats what I call an oily rag condition. A few months later, now complete with tax and Mot the side car decided to come loose after a bolt fell out while on a club run, being near to a friends house the sidecar was taken of and left in the front garden and the run continued. That left a lot of people puzzled and wondering what had happened to the sidecar.

Location: Pembrokeshire

My view is that sympathetic restoration is acceptable. Up to the owner to decide where to stop, but I have had a long interest in antiques and take some guidance from this.
The (usually American) tactic of bringing a car back to better than showroom condition is not for me.
My 1929 fabric saloon is a case in point- I have tried to retain as much of the originality as possible within the limits of being able to regularly drive it - and being fabric is not amenable to an oily rag.
The interior upholstery is also fabric and after 86 years a bit tatty but that is how it will stay with careful application of some fabric glue to keep in place.
I am sure that some cars need major restoration but with care and attention to detail it is possible to make the finish look like a well cared for and loved vehicle wearing its age well, as we all do

Tony.

PS - Ian's Nippy is looking great and the engine pictures wonderful!

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Australia.

Hi
I think a lot of pleasure can be derived from looking at cars in an original condition that have not been restored - this is perhaps similar to the fascination generated by a barn find? It all depends on what the owner wants to do with the car. Those cars that have survived in an original state and are still pleasing to the eye should perhaps be preserved and treated with kid gloves so that they can be enjoyed into the future? Fortunately, there are plenty of others that can be either restored to near perfection, or put to serious use without too much concern for their preservation (like me happily running my common, unoriginal and imperfect Ruby in the winter salt).
Regards
Colin