Much more info on this by regisering at http://www.forwardcardiff.co.uk/

but this is what is the hot topic of the month - Bayscape

see it on my sports village map here http://www.cardiffwalesmap.com/cardiffsportsvillage.htm



if you like it we need to let the planning department know - the address will follow...

this is where to write if you want to play your part in helping this development happen - let's hope this one doesn't 'get away'

planning app number 08/2191/C

The contact in Cardiff's Planning Department is Nigel Hanson

Address is:

Development Control
Strategic Planning and Environment
City Hall
Cathays Park
CARDIFF
CF10 3ND

I'm going to need a bib in a bit if I keep looking at the images. Great to see the Bay Pointe buildings in the background as well.

I'm actually fairly confident about the ISV now as there will hopefully be some high quality high rise there. I was a little sceptical of the Devils being permanently based there but now I think that this little peninsular will be the 'place to be' in a few years time.

Oh and I love the plans for this new development!

I feel like I'm in a minority of one here and of course I didn't go to the presentation but aren't the plans a bit 'thin' at the moment? Aren't they at exactly the same stage as, for example, the Adam St towers? An indistinct render?

The brochure on the FC website is very glossy but isn't it a wishlist rather than a statement of fact? The design values are all well presented and if they do come to fruition then the central boulevard, the high rise restaurant, the shops and services will really set this development apart but it isn't as though anyone has signed up is it? Plus the render of the tower looks to me to be...ok.

I hate to be a pooh-pooer but whilst I welcome this development I'm cynical about the likelihood of it ever coming to pass either in whole or maybe in part and I'm not overwhelmed by the architectural quality. There isn't enough meat on the bones for me to make a judgment as yet although the aspirations of the developer are to be applauded at the very least.

Those of you who were at the presentation or have spoken to the developer may be able to put me straight in double quick time and render my quibbles redundant - if so then please feel free to do so.

Whilst they could give no specifics the developer informed us that they have several financing options (their usual bankers, together with some others, all said they were interested in providing funding). They have yet to formally tender for a hotel operator but have already received unsolicited approaches from operators. Similarly, they have interest from potential occupiers of some of the retail/catering space. And finally they have owners of yatchs who have 'signed up' for apartments at the scheme.

Look this development wouldn't be particularly special if it were in London and would be good but not unprecedented in somewhere like Manchester. But for Cardiff it represents a significant step-up in terms of proposed quality, and unlike the Glass Needle or Bay Pointe etc we have been able to meet the developer and they have been able to provide assurances (but of course not the paperwork) that this should be a starter. Of course things can always change - they may find hotelliers backing out, or find that the can't make the sums add up with the materials required for their 'high end' product and the price the market will bear for the apartments. But this is not just a set of 'artists impressions': this is an outline application but with nearly all the detail required for a full application.

Will it start on site next year? Hopefully, but perhaps not. But whatever happens it doesn't detract from the fact that the development represents a new higher standard for Cardiff in terms of aspiration.

I agree the aspirations are fine and if it comes to fruition then it will be a positive development for Cardiff and particularly the ISV. I hope that I'm way off the mark and that the developer is in the final stages of tieing up loose ends that will see the whole shabang underway early next year.

I can't help thinking Glass Needle though, which is no longer a needle and not very much glass (actually it is still scrubland surrounded by hoardings even after 4 years). Particularly in this climate when national developers have left towers but metres away from this proposed development half built. Maybe I'm comparing apples and pears and I really don't want to be a wet blanket but looking at it logically from the outside in it seems an extraordinary gamble to be building apartments in a previously underdeveloped part of the Bay, shops for which it is not certain there will be enough footfall to sustain and a hotel hot on the heels of 3 or 4 new ones opening in the city on top of what hoteliers describe as a significant oversupply in Cardiff in any event. And with the quality proposed.

Perhaps thats what the current financial conditions have given birth to - independent developers prepared to take risks rather than nationals regurgitating the same old stuff across the UK. If so then amen to that. But if I was asked to invest in this scheme at present I'd wish them the best of luck and graciously decline.

Just for the record I will be more than happy to be proven wrong on this one.

The one thing I wondered was the images of an M&S simply food and Toni & Guy etc. in the PDF file. Are they allowed to do that unless those companies have signed up to the scheme ?

Excuse my naivety about this but I don't work in law or property development. I just wondered if the fact that these companies have been represented in the documentation implies they have been signed up (subject to the scheme actually happening of course) ?

I'm sure the developers fully understand the implications and would not have used any old photos that they had picked up.

Full detailed drawings have of course been completed for the application. However there are so many of them and at 90mb it is difficult to post. I have provided copies to the FCCF team.

The architecture will come through more strongly as more images become available and the façade system becomes more evident.

As for deliverability, all I can say is that we have done our research, we are confident and we will deliver. Timing is clearly key and will take time to complete legals etc.

Re. the presentation, the shop names etc are indicative only. We are progressing discussions with some names but we are only now starting this process.

Hope this helps.

Block K of Prospect Place has been put on hold as there are no buyers/money to proceed. Yet 100 metres away the planner are so very confident that a 30 storey apartment tower will be workable in the near future.

I have a few questions:

1. Did they get the land for nothing.
2. Has flats in Cardiff suddenly become scarce.
3. Will banks now lend to FTB's to buy over priced apartments any time soon.
4. Is this a punt by a local developer to raise their profile to achieve some other unconnected goal.

I can't help but think, with every proposed development there are a large number of consultant 'hangers on' that make money regardless if the project succeeds or not. They are there to facilitate greed.

Vanity Publishing
Property Seminars
Pyramid Schemes

Just had a look at their web site (should have done that first before posting)

Quote:
"The architectural and the interior design will relate to the way its residents want to live. If you would like to provide input into this exciting design process please let us know what you would like to see from the properties and from the environment"

This is pure B*****ks some consultant firm wrote this spiel. Are they serious?
At best they will get outline planning permission by virtue of the 'local support' realise they can't then fund the scheme and sell it on to national developer for a tidy profit.
At worst they will sell a few more births.

I can't believe that everyone has been taken in by this.

Zach. I am the owner of the land, the development and the money behind it. We are not competing with or comparing ourselves with the nationals. We would fail if we do. Apartments comprise a very small part of the overall scheme (the tower is in fact a hotel). As a group we have little debt and a genuine opportunity here to seal our costs today (in a tough market) and realise revenue in a few years (when the world will at least be different). Times like these present opportunities to those with the ability to fund and deliver (ie cash).

Happy to meet if you really doubt us....and those words on the website are our own btw.

Zach, have you read the documents yet ? Your second but last post refers to a 30 storey apartment tower. They aren't building a 30 storey apartment tower. It's a 30 storey hotel with just 20 serviced apartments.

There is also around 100 apartments in the lower blocks surrounding but surely they will be developed bit by bit and won't be started until someone actually shows some interests in buying them and when the housing market picks up. There's no harm in coming up with a proposal and obtaining planning permission a year or two before you intend building. It's no different to Bay Pointe and all the other schemes that are on the backburner.

Zach. Apologies I forgot to answer your questions in my frustration.

1/ No. We purchased the company that owned the land on the ISV for a multi-million pound sum in early 2007. That company has now been transformed into a wider marine business.

2/ I suspect not. We are not seeking to compete with the cockie cutter btl market here.

3/ No and nor would I

4/ No. We are genuinly committed to delivering. In the last year alone we have realised £10m of development in cardiff with the Marine Village complex, marinas and business capital programme.

Forgot to mention. We are big Cardiff fans but I am not local. I am based in Geneva, Switzerland and I am committed to Cardiff because of what I believe are sound business and economic reasons over the medium term. We are not like other developers. We have an inclusive consultative style and hence our willingness to engage in forum dialogue etc with interested parties in Cardiff (both those who approve and disapprove of what we are seeking to achieve). All I would ask is that people take me for my word (which is an honest one). The biggest risk for this project at the moment is planning. We'll handle the economics.

Zach.

Whilst I of course believe we should bow down to your genius as you saw the property crash coming, and pinpointed the exact time it would occur, never thought it would happen earlier and have never been wrong about such matters, don't you think you're being a little rude to those in the industry?

People have been caught unawares. The market was trundling along okay and hasn't suddenly dried up because of a lack of demand for property but because of a lack of supply of credit which has been far worse than people thought and looks to last longer than initially thought. You may have "thought it" but not because of some rational analysis or consideration of what drove the sub-prime crisis but just a gut-feeling. Hey well done, sometimes they are right. But theres no need to get high and mighty.

More importantly, you have come trundling on here without doing any research and have made some very basic errors. A Kyle points out the tower is a hotel and the 100 apartments represents, a small scheme. Housing building is down, its not completely stopped - some developments will go ahead. And it will probably be those offering something a bit different, with good finance in place and not being bought by amateur buy-to-letters (although incidentally the big boys are doing pretty well on their rental properties due to displaced demand). More importantly you have been very rude to Chris who took a great deal of time and effort to explain and present his proposals, has offered site visits to members of FC and has, I see, calmly answered your questions. I think you should apologise.

I read a very good letter in the Metro this morning on the tube into work. Someone wrote in saying that the public as a whole should accept responsibility for the credit crunch, and that blaming bankers, investers and traders as being particularly devious or greedy people is nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black. These people made mistakes but who doesn't? These people speculated, but if we had the means to do so and the confidence about it, wouldn't we? The hypocrasy of many people when they complain about dodgy bankers or politicians but then they happily keep excess change, pay cash to avoid VAT, use pirated DVDs, or buy a few extra concert tickets hoping to sell them on for profit. So next time before you lambast others its probably best to get your self-righteousness in check first.

I find this thread slightly surreal.

It reminds me of the GM2 debate in Penarth, I had connections with the developer and was also involved in the local opposition so could see both sides of it.

They had a small plot of land and their goal was to maximise the value of their holding.
I think that one has finally gone away, having exhausted all their appeals.
He was very crafty getting as many people on board as possible, touchy feely type PR. The Design Council for Wales involvement was a master stroke.
He too should have posted to forums, very clever.
But alas they bit off more than they could chew.

I wish you and your fellow directors all the best.
If I were you I to would put in an application that maximises the resale potential, better to put in a 30 storey application that gets cut down to a 20 storey one, than start with a 20 storey from the off.




One final (and cheeky) question:
Have you or any of your fellow directors been previously directors of businesses that have been liquidated. (with monies owing to creditors)

Zach. Answer to your final question. No. I own 8 businesses in all covering everything from management consulting to property investment (I own a lot of property across Europe) to service businesses and of course Cardiff Marine Group. As for the future and as I explained during a recent presentation we will commence build off the back of agreements to lease on the various spaces we are building. The project will therefore be in the black the day we put a spade in the ground. We expect this to all be concluded inside 12 months. If it takes 18 so be it. We'll start build then.

As for what we are trying to achieve with the site. Densities are important yes but we are in fact of a lower density than many of the national schemes. The berths are not for sale and we want to retain an open inclusive environment for the future.

Your posts appear cynical and bitter (I don't know why). On the ground we are genuinly delivering right now. It may just be possible that our intentions are good and we have the ability to deliver.

You are no doubt a smart guy. I can assure you we're pretty switched on too. I wouldn't do what I do if I wasn't. Besides we don't have millions of cubic metres of unsold apartment stock to drag us down right now. Our (very few apartments) will likely only be available for sale in 2012 towards the end of the scheme.

Happy to engage in mature logical debate moving forward. Otherwise this will be my last post on this subject.

Zach

for someone who knows very little about this project you are spouting considerable nonsense.

The developers have shown considerable courtesy to people on this forum and FC and have allowed us to be privy to their plans, and then some. They are not claiming to be a panacea of the world financial crisis but what they are offering is a whole new approach to development in Cardiff. Having met Christopher and seen his passion and enthusiasm i firmly believe we will see somethnig happen on this site, something along the lines of what is proposed.

questioning the directors previous performance is not cheeky, it is downright rude. If you really want to find out it is in the public domain. I'm of teh opinion Christopher will tell you regardless becasue he has come across as sincerely open and honest - however I wouldn't on the basis you are quite frankly showing a level of discourtesy that is not welcome.

I am not going in to this blind and do not hope against hope that it gets built. we have had our fair share of disappointments in Cardiff with BP/Seren etc and for that reason we need to kickstart the process somewhere. We have businessmen from Switzerland who are putting together something this city badly needs.

If you could have removed your arse from your pc and keyboard and actually bothered to turn up at the FCCY meeting you would have realised the controls the developers are putting in place to stop BTL'ers. The rental yields aer going to be too low and there will be serious restrictions ie you can purchase only one property.

without saying it we beleive the developer has a hotel operator already lined up or at least they have a preferred choice. Now that planning has started the next step is commercialisation. Perhaps as you are the George Soros of the developer world you could share some tips on how these upstarts from Switzerland should go about this process.

Christopher

Thank you for your responses. My comments above were borne of frustration at a number of high profile schemes not coming to fruition and a number of others being so dumbed down they have become an embarrassment to our city.

All of us on here are passionate about Cardiff, some of us are alive to it's shortcomings, others a little cynical perhaps but all of us (I suspect) secretly hold aspirations that the city can make the great leap forward and become the place we really want it to be.

I'm happy to take you at your word and wish you the best of luck with the project and hope that it's the catalyst for realising the ISV as a proper destination rather than a glorified shopping park with a swimming pool which it is at the moment. I still retain my doubts over the viability of the scheme in the market at the moment but maybe that's why I'm an office monkey stuck behind a keyboard and you are talking monopoly money in an office in Geneva...... :-)

Karl, You are very welcome and I am happy to answer any questions. With respect to your remark about money. Whatever the amount (large or small) it should always be respected. It can both make and ruin lives.

I have broken forum etiquette? I have no way of knowing who people are ? If some one logged on with a name G.Sorros I would not take it as verbatim that it was really him.

CARDIFFWALESMAP.COM FORUM:
"If it's about Cardiff then we want it here - sport, entertainment, transportation,
business, leisure, eating, drinking, train spotting! etc.. etc. Any News or Views* on
'Cardiff Developments' St Davids 2 the Sports Village the Glass Needle?? etc.."

*Except Views we don't like....

Excellent post, Jantra. It suffices to say I was left pretty angry by Zach's post. I'm not angry that you have a different opinion but the way you aired your views and as Jantra points out, your final question is not 'cheeky' but seriously oversteps a boundary of what is reasonable to ask and what is not.

It has nothing to do with contradictory views. It has everything to do with etiquette as you point out. If you want to thoughtfully question the development, draw parallels with some of the on-hold schemes, worry and comment on the deliverability (or not) thats fine. But I think what you did was very different. You were downright rude to us and to Chris, and above all it was all based on pre-concept with you seeming to have done nothing to at the actual proposals.

Have not been able to access any other details regarding this development although the picture posted above looks promising.

It would seem that this development is planned to be coming online after (hopefully) any recession. We are told that the financing is available so hopefully the present credit crunch will not impact. But the world is facing a few other problems, global warming and energy shortages (peak oil)IMHO are the most pressing. In this regard the development has a few advantages, the foot/cycle bridge and hopefully an improving bus service, so it would appear to be not entirely car dependent. Any potential occupiers are becoming far more aware of their energy costs. What I would like to know is whether the proposals include, for example insulation in excess of building regs, heat pumps either in the soil or the waters of the bay or any other built in capacity to provide some of the occupiers energy demands eg solar water heating airconditioning? Does anyone have any details?

I know it is probably irrational to like development and worry about global warming and peak oil but I think developers can provide part of the answer. Density is part of this, as it makes public transport viable, as is mixed use development as it also reduces car dependence. And european cities of similar size to Cardiff I would suggest have major advantages in this regard over larger metro areas, for example London.

I believe it was mentioned that they would make use of the potential for heating/cooling from the river ely outside and that this would reduce energy usage, particularly in summer months.

Jeremey,

Thanks for bringing up this important topic. Overall we are aiming for high standards on sutainability and althought the global strategy is yet to be fixed, my team are evaluating everything from heat pumps (which we can route underneath the marina pontoon structure) to photo-electric panels (we have quite a lot of glass) and rainwater collection.

A very interesting aspect for us is that because we are genuinly rooted in the capitalised value of future income streams and profit based on the hotel and commercial spaces, the true cost of ownership has a stronger influence on economy and energy use....or to put it another way the hotel is worth more if the annual energy consumption is reduced. This contracts with a typical UK BTL apartment where purchasers tend to look at the view and the space and ignore the fact that the unit is inefficiently heated with elctric panels. Purchasers place an intrinsic value of space whereas professional operators capitalise income streams. Funadementaly for me this is one reason why residential yields and values have diverged so much in the UK in recent years. In CH property is valued as a function of the perpetuity of net profit. This is the fundamental calculation and driver we will use for the evaluation of our sustainability strategy. So we'll be doing what we can provided it makes financial sense.

Hope this helps.

CH is switzerland in case anyone wasnt sure. It isn't the country name in any of the national languages but it comes from "Confederatio Helvetica", the latin name of the state. Its a really odd country; divided in culture and language even more than Belgium but without the political problems and with a system of local democracy that seems to work without leading to constant NIMBYism. Or maybe its just a small neutral state, outside the EU, whose political system is so different that we don't hear anything about it as theres nothing to put it into context.

knowing someone from Switzerland, who father is German, mother is Swiss German, lives in Geneva and who's first language is French, bascially she says the swiss do not appear to get hung up so much on language as a national identifier, rahter a common set of morals and beliefs.

Christopher

My remark was very much tongue in cheek. Good luck with the project, I look forward with interest to news over the coming months and if you are able to provide us with updates on this or the FCYC forum that would be superb.

I am partly Swiss, and have close relatives in St Gallen . Switzerland is very rich and although not without its problems has , indded, a very healthy view to language,. It has four official languages, including Romansch, spoken by some riduiculously small percentage of the population. Many Swiss are bi ot tri lingual. If only the English had the same attitudes.

Urbano, what's happening with the Staybridge Suites ? Has it been cancelled altogether or is it just delayed ? I know you might not be able to tell me, but it's worth a shot

Sorry, Kyle. Don't want to appear a man of mystery but just can't say.

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/country_information/index.html?siteSect=750

...I live in the French part. French is our first home language.

I'm going to join in the Swiss love in.

I've been there and it is astoundingly beutiful. Only my girlfriend, Bute Park and Austria can match it.

Hopefully Christopher can lobby cardiff airport for better routes there!?

James,

Yes Switzerland is stunning esp. if you like the outdoor life.

I would dearly love to see flights from Geneva to Cardiff (apart from the ad hoc winter ski flights). I am getting rather tired of my flights to Bristol. I take around 100 flights a year. 90 of them to and from Bristol (aghhh).

never been to switzerland proper but flown from Geneva and swam in contanzsee (I think that is what it is called in German).

Urbano....thanks for the reply even if you can't tell me anything...it was worth a try wasn't it ?!

It would be a shame if it doesn't happen...anyway, that's for another thread. Just thought I'd get your attention while you were posting on this one !

just a quikie, does cardiff council have a policy on tall buildings?

Christopher - thanks for the reply. It is interesting to see how commercial developers and operators are viewing energy usage as contributing to long term profitability. I believe that in the next 5 years a lot more attention will be focussed on this area. The commercial buildings around the Bay have a potential energy source but most do not realise it, yet.

I will also join in the Switzerland love in, having visited the country 6 times in the last twenty years. If you want to see how railways should be run go there, in fact send Arriva on a training course there.
The most disturbing thing over the last 20 years is seeing how fast the glaciers were retreating. Hard to appreciate how much climate changes until you see something like that over time.

Its application is now listed on the recent applications PDF.

HOTEL (INCLUDING CONFERENCE SUITE, GYM, SPA, RESTAURANTS AND BARS),
RESIDENTIAL, RETAIL, OFFICE AND FOOD AND DRINK UNITS, PARKING AND SERVICE AREAS,
NEW ACCESS, PUBLIC REALM AND NEW RIVER EDGE REVETMENT

I find it quite rediculous that this kind of development is expected to have its decision made at the delegated level whilst a single house in Cyncoed will require a planning committee decision.

Did anyone see the TV show "planners" a few weeks ago (it may even be a series). I thought it would be interesting but rather than offer any real insight into the difficult choices it made it focused on a group of NIMBY residents in two parts of London. One didn't want the car garage behind them to build a paint drying facility as it would "spoil her lovely view" and when it got permission she whinged about it "being unfair that their rights take precedence" without seeing to realise that someones rights will always have to. The other was Hampstead Garden Suburb where there were plans to erect a mobile phone mast and people's responses were of the like "we've paid good money to live here and to avoid such ugly (but necessary) facilities). They should put them somewhere else (where poorer people live)". I guess the fair folk of Cyncoed feel the same and require a half hour debate on a 2 story house being a "gross overdevelopment". PAH!

The listing is a mistake we believe as there is no way on earth this scheme will be managed under delegated powers.

We are hoping to make the December committee meeting if at all possible. Time will tell if we do.

Dai

your post does make me laugh...it's the same all over...people want the facilities but not at their own expense. You can almost guarantee that complaints would be made to Oftel about poor mobile telephony coverage in their area at the same time....

it's ridiculous. The residents of Penarth want a suburban lifestyle with economic benefits of being next to a big-ish city but none of the downside. Complaints of taking a whole 20 minutes to get to work in the morning - gosh it must be akin to carrying the weight of the worlds troubles on your shoulders having to sit in traffic for the time it takes to read the times on a train in the morning.

This development should at most bring 200 cars at any one time to the ISV. Thats all this development has allowed for in terms of car coverage (or thereabouts). Therefore, if the council adopt the land (as they will do), then it is up to them to enfirce adequate roadside parking measures and not the develoepr. The developer has made great play of saying this development is not going to be car centric.

This development is not too car centric and I reckon even the residents of Penarth Marina would excuses very difficult to come by why this shouldn't go ahead. But then this time, there is something in it for them - a community shopping area and facilities. They'll probably support it and hopefully they will. We need somethnig to kickstart the whole concept and at last we have a developer who (i) listens and (ii) wants to create something of quality.

I am very impressed with the image I have seen so far. It's a shame that Cardiff Council don't have a proper online applications database, are there any further renders showing other angles etc?
I'm encouraged by Christopher's optomism about his scheme, but I remain cautious in my own response given the worstening financial crisis. I wish the project team luck though, if the project is realised according to the stated aspirations then it has the potential to be a very welcome development.

Surely one of the biggest problems with the present planning system is that it is not independent. Any council has a direct interest in the increased tax base any development brings, council tax, business rates and the knock on affect of a more buoyant local economy. If a ruling group favours a development then objections whether genuine or not do not carry the weight they should.

The planning system also does not compensate those living around the development directly, you can lose light and solar heating of your building, increased traffic and noise outside your door. Worse if you are a business and have houses built next to you, you might have to change working practices inccuring costs. So a planning system should force developers to directly compensate those people who lose amenity.
Obviously if you buy into a development knowing that the site next to you will be developed then such objections would carry little weight but it is different if gardens suddenly are being built on.

Jeremy, the planning system takes into account the factors you consider: any development that has a too-large a negative impact on things like traffic, noise, light, wind etc will be either refused or required to take mitigating action. And don't forget section 106.

If we knew the true costs and benefits of things like noise or light or views then what you suggest would be perfectly consistent with an economists view of the way to take planning decisions. A development would take place only if its social cost was less than its social benefit. BUT in a world with imperfect information trying to estimate this is hugely expensive and there are big incentives to overstate the costs of these things in order to eke out extra money from developers or extra contributions from the public purse. And to get the right decision you don't want to only measure the social costs/benefits to those living nearby but also to wider society. And then the problem gets a million times more complicated again.

In fact I think the planning system tends to give too much weight to the concerns of the few rather than the many. Its very easy to build a coalition against a development that will have a significant negative impact on a small group of people. But if a very large and diffuse group benefit a small bit each its much harder to get them to speak up. In particular, councillors face an incentive to oppose developments in their local area when just a few people complain, but because benefits tend to get spread wider and thinner noone has the incentive to campaign for them. I think this incentive is far more important, at least for committee votes - although of course committee members who campaign against a development are meant to obstain (something Plaid recently forgot in Ceredigion).

Kind of related to this development. A bit more news on icwales on Saturday regarding the Pont y Werin bridge.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/cardiff-news/2008/10/04/penarth-bay-link-could-be-a-reality-91466-21961268/

All,

We will be making available two models of the development shortly. One (approx. 100 cms high) will be provided to Cardiff's planning department. A second has been scaled to fit into the ISV model housed at the ISV offices in the sports village. Both should be in place in the next 14 days.

Christopher, do you know whether there will be/is a model of the proposed arena in the ISV model (in the ISV office)? As a Devils fan I'm chomping at the bit to find out anything about it... it's all gone very quiet!

Thanks.

No not yet I'm afraid. Much of the model is made upwith the old plans for the sports village (with Casino etc) and the orginal Bay Pointe scheme.

Bayscape is in the Western Mail today. Nothing more than any of us know but is now the time to contact those at Skyscrapernews and get it up on there as a proposed tower ? It's been ages since we had a new entry on the list of proposed developments for Cardiff !