Today's Pic of the Day has reminded me of this.
The Penarth Marine Hotel (at Penarth Marina, next door to the Custom House) was a hotel owned by the Taff Vale Railway, but has been vacant since about the mid-70s (somebody correct me if i'm wrong there)

What is going to happen to this building? It's Grade II listed and appears to be derelict (part of the roof has fallen in) but there doesn't appear to be plans to develop it, reopen it or demolish it (god forbid!)

It would be a real shame to let it fall further into ruin, because it does look like it was a gorgeous building it it's day, but at the same time it is becoming a bit of an eyesore and many developers may be sizing the land up for development...

I think it's been empty since the fire in the 1960's (pretty sure it was the 60's).

There were plans for redeveloping the site but they were rather too radical for Penarth.

A highly bespoke Spa, proper posh and everything, may be an idea for the building.

Around the same time as the Customer House building was being tarted up and turned into a restaurant there was a proposal to turn this into apartments.

It obviously never materialised.

Personally I think it's perfect as a boutique hotel or as suggested above as a spa.

I guess as Cardiff Bay developments gradually move closer to this through the BBC developments and the ISV then it will become a more desirable (and thus worth spending the cash on) location. The issue will be whether the developments get close enough before the building falls down. Once the Cardiff Bay circular route is a pleasuable reality then I'm sure it'll be a ket spot. But that is far off in the current climate.

The seaward side of the Dock Buildings was known as the Marine Hotel - though it was a pub really. There was accommodation in the upper floors and a range of shops - ship's butcher, optician, green grocer, ship's chandlers - on the ground floor. At the Custom House side was a post and telegraphic office.

The proposal for the site, which was withdrawn, was for an 18 floor Swiss Re style apartment block which would retain some element of the original buildings around its base - a bit like Altolusso, I think. Objections raised included overdevelopment on a very restricted site, and the relationship of the tower to Penarth Head and St Augustine's Church, both of which which it would have over-topped. The site is apparently owned by Mr Martinez, of the Custom House, (and formerly of Le Monde etc), in conjunction with a consortium of developers. There has been talk since then of a hotel but nothing concrete.
The Vale of Glamorgan have imposed a repair order on the building to ensure preservation of the shell, but no action has been taken.

I remember those proposals now. It probably was a valid charge of overdevelopment.

I'm not sure I agree with the concept of repair orders that make private property owners pay for the cost of restoring listed buildings. If society wants to preserve its old buildings, society should pay for that priviledge. It shouldn't force private owners who might have alternative uses for the site to do so. Private owners should have an obligation to ensure their land is safe and does not cause harm to others. The best way to do that, from their individual perspective, may be demolition. Yes, there is value to keeping our old buildings but that is value to society not to the individual, so society should pay for that (i.e. the taxpayer).

Market prices should adjust to account for this so its only really a problem when buildings gain listing - people who own the property at that time suffer a windfall loss.

Surely that would just give people an incentive to let their buildings deteriorate until the Council step in and pay for repairs?

I hadn't thought of the incentive problem - silly me as that really is the point of an economist -but I don't think it kills the idea.

There is a "moral" issue here:
- if the council forces private property owner to maintain listed structures to a listed building standard, it is effectively forcing a private individual to bear the cost of providing a "public good" (heritage). That is a bit like asking me to spend thousands of pounds on making my garden so my neighbours can enjoy the view. I think society (i.e. the taxpayer) should contribute to such impositions.

There is then the "economic" issue with a solution:
- incentive-compatibility. If you know the taxpayer will pay for repairs to it, why bother yourself?

In principle the solution is to make the property owner pay for any repairs that give benefits to them and for society to subsidise the parts that give rise to the positive external benefits to other people. Valuing these two components is difficult.

One rough and ready idea would be for the owner to be forced to pay an amount equal to what the repair (or demolition) cost would be if the building was not listed, with the taxpayer paying the difference. Of course, the owner may also get some benefits from the features that make the building listed so its not clear that all additional spending on these are "public benefits" not "private" ones.

But anyway I'm not a fan of listed building status. Basically I don't think its fair for society to come along and impose massive obligations on individual property owners because someone else has decided that building is historically important.

Marine Hotel to be turned into a £6m four-star boutique hotel:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/cardiffonline/cardiff-news/2011/12/14/four-star-future-for-derelict-bay-building-91466-29951866/

Great!:



Being done by the people who own the Old Custom House next door and will take about two years to complete. Modern cafe extension added to the Channel facing side, as you can see in the image above. Bit of a shame it casts a shadow onto the older part of the building but sure to be good for the area.

Hooray!

Well done, about time too! Only taken 40-odd years (burnt down in 60's IIRC).

thats really would be great.




Alwyn,

when is the next residents meeting as I want to make sure the usual naysayers and harbingers of doom are not the only ones to have a voice?

please post your reasons why the Penarth Residents Association should wholeheartedly support such a development here...I'll collate and go along and articulate them in my usual disjointed fashion.

Is that balloon/zeppelin thing still happening? I've lost track of the number of places that that was going to be sited at. Wasn't it somewhere near this place according to the last planning application or am I dreaming it?

If anyone from Penarth Marina residents association complains about this, I will personally find the biggest fish I can from Cardiff Bay and repeatedly slap them on the cheeks with it, while making them repeat 100 times 'I don't know I'm born. I don't know I'm born'

Surely though, no one of sane mind would oppose this..although the same could be said of Pier 64

I for one will be putting in a formal objection to this unnecessessesary development.

My view (from Adventurers Quay) of the bushes at the end bit of the Penarth headland cliff face will be obstructed by the new cafe.

And James - I'll report you to the authorities if I find you fishing in the Bay - so back off with the sardine threat

Great news, but the extension looks pretty ill thought out.

methinks James and Wizard are not taking my request seriously

Sounds great to me.

Funnily enough Jantra, the Residents' Association has always argued for a scheme exactly like this, and I would imagine that they,( since I can't speak for them as I'm no longer the secretary), like myself, will be delighted.
When I hear when the next meeting is, I'll let you know, since it would be nice for you to turn up for the first time in 6 years.
However I don't think the owner of the Custom House, who, as has been said is one of the developers, was all that pleased to hear that a barrage balloon would be bobbing up and down four times an hour in front of his new hotel. But then, the Skyflyer's gone very quiet now hasn't it?

James,
The Residents' Association not only supported Pier 64 from its original conception, we held our last meeting there. Must be getting infected by Cardiff Wales Map-itis!

extension looks porr where it is but suspect it houses emergency fire escape and lifts, always difficult to add them to old buildings

No, Jantra
The Residents' Association gave full support to the application as can be seen in the minutes of their meetings. In fact here's the letter we sent

4th November, 2010
Dear Sirs
Planning application 2010/01033/FUL

I write on behalf of the committee of the above association, which contains representation from every part of the Marina and Haven area - a total of some 700 households. I confirm that this assocation fully supports the above planning application and looks forward to the opening of the café and restaurant.

We would urge that permission is given as soon as possible. I realise that this letter is after the closing date for consultation, but would request that it be considered.

Yours sincerely
Secretary, Marina and Haven Residents' Association

There were certainly individual residents who objected and because of this Swanbridge(the developers) were invited to an extended committee meeting on May 16th this year, so they could clarify their intentions,( you, incidentally had a specific notice of this meeting through your door like the 700+ other homes in the marina area). On a straw poll (though only the committee technically can vote, we wanted to make sure we represented opinion of all who bothered to turn up accurately) 40 were satisfied with Swanbridge proposals and 7 were not. That's a pretty convincing majority if you ask me. The 9.00 requirement was a planning officer's requirement, which many committee members have said is nutty, since, as you say, noise from the tables on the lawn at the front is more intrusive to nearby houses.

When you shoot from the hip, Jantra, make sure your gun isn't still pointing at your foot

I wasn't shooting from the hip Alwyn, it was a genuine question as I did not know. thanks for taking the time to answer.

do you know why the 7 objected to a music licence or why they required the balcony to be closed considering the boats/smoking area as outlined about? The 9pm time frame (I have been told) was part of planning, but only so because some residents had objected to the noise following the initial application

I didn't visit this hotel ever. But as you have talk about the features& services of this hotel, in future i would really want to visit this hotel & stay there.

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Planning APPROVED on 27 April 2012. Hoorah!!!

I note several references to the building being destroyed by fire in the 1960s, which was not the case. In the early 1970s the property was still intact and habitable; the property was divided into 10 separate dwellings, some with their own front doors and some two room bedsits.

It was owned at the time by local entrepreneur Norman Harvey (proprietor of the former Leo's Supermarket and the two petrol stations on Penarth Road). I moved into No. 7 Marine Building along with several housemates in January 1972. No 1, No. 2, No 5, and No. 9 were also occupied (mostly by elderly long term tenants) and some of the units were already vacated.

When Mr Harvey was killed in a helicopter accident (circa 1973?) all the remaining tenants, including us, were given notice of tenancy termination later that year by the executors of Mr Harvey's estate.

The fire happened sometime around 1975 and there was a wide held (but unproven) suspicion at the time that it was started deliberately by the new property development company's agents for insurance purposes.

Is there work due to start on this any time soon? I'm sure there was a whole host of renovation work that needed to start first but the site still looks fragile.

I remember this building when it was appartments. My auntie lived there back in the sixties.

Hi, I lived in number 9. Moved in 1978 and left in 1980.
The building had every flat occupied then.
Norman Harvey sadly died in 1980 I think. It wasn't much before that though.I don't know about a fire being there.
There was a skip outside which used to be set alight a lot. Fire brigade were called out more than once.
I loved living there, just a bit of a walk to the beach which really only us in the building used.

Hi,

Norman Harvey was my grandads brother. I am trying to find out more information about him if you are able to add to my small amount of knowledge i have already gained. Norman died in a plane craah on October the 1st i believe. He was landing in Jersey in bad weather and unfortunately lost control of the Cessna light aircraft he was flying.
My grandad also recently passed away aswell and i cannot gather any further information about Norman. If you are able to afford me anymore info that would be greatly appreciated. My email address is aparsons1927@hotmail.com

Many thanks
Andrew Parsons