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Re: new rink announcement? and more??

The 'Bay Walkway' adjacent to Prospect Place (Ferry Court) is privately owned and there are plans to close it off overnight in common with that part by the White Water Rafting Centre.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Paul ragan was on sky sports after the game last night.
Paul said he expected "the new arena to be complete between december 2013 and early 2014".

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I was at the international pool today and I could see that there was some testing equipment on the site of bay pointe, looked to me that there was some movement on this site???

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Sounds like ground investigation to allow the detailed design to happen. Nothing will happen without planning permission so look out for the application in the next few months which will give us a better idea of what we're hopefully getting. Then they'll have to get a contractor on board. All being well I predict a September commencement.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Cardiff Ian
.....All being well I predict a September commencement.


Ah, but if it is anything like another nearby 'construction', September of what year??

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Info for those of you that don't peruse the Construction Enquirer website!



Construction start date for £200m Cardiff ice


Developer Greenbank Partnerships has confirmed a construction timetable for its £200m ice arena and indoor ski slope in Cardiff Bay with work set to start next March.

The firm has also unveiled detailed plans for the development which will be built in two phases.

Construction of the ice arena – the first phase of the scheme – should start next March and be completed in time for the start of the 2014/15 ice hockey season for the Cardiff Devils.

Work will include two ice pads, with the main rink measuring 60m by 30m, with seating for 3,100. The second pad will span 56m by 27m.

The second phase – which should be completed by 2016/2017 – includes two real snow ski slopes, a 1,800sqm “snow world” for children, as well as shops, restaurants, two hotels and a plaza. There will also be a multi-storey car park with 1,600 spaces.

The ski slope will measure 160m by 45m, with a 50m by 50m nursery slope. A cafe will overlook the nursery slope and give panoramic views out across the Bay.

Greenbank Partnerships’ Jonathan Smith said the scheme would set a new benchmark for winter leisure complexes.

He told walesonline.co.uk: “We are raising the quality so that you don’t feel that you are in a tin shed – you will be able to look out over the Bay while you are skiing.

“There is no point building another scheme like at Milton Keynes or Tamworth, they are the old school of how it was done. There is a lot more competition for money now and we have to rise to that challenge.”

Beneath the ski slope will be a 130-bedroom three star hotel and the complex will be designed around a public plaza with amphitheatre and covered arcade walkways.

A residential development, known as Cardiff Pointe, will be built on the peninsula next to the winter sports complex.

Two apartment towers standing 18 and 24 storeys high, as well as a mixture of townhouses and detached homes.

A planning application will be submitted in May and construction should start before Christmas.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Thanks for the informative post. Nice to see that schedules are set. It'll make quite a difference to get rid of that derelict land!

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Cardiff Ian
Info for those of you that don't peruse the Construction Enquirer website!



Construction start date for £200m Cardiff ice


Developer Greenbank Partnerships has confirmed a construction timetable for its £200m ice arena and indoor ski slope in Cardiff Bay with work set to start next March.

The firm has also unveiled detailed plans for the development which will be built in two phases.

Construction of the ice arena – the first phase of the scheme – should start next March and be completed in time for the start of the 2014/15 ice hockey season for the Cardiff Devils.

Work will include two ice pads, with the main rink measuring 60m by 30m, with seating for 3,100. The second pad will span 56m by 27m.

The second phase – which should be completed by 2016/2017 – includes two real snow ski slopes, a 1,800sqm “snow world” for children, as well as shops, restaurants, two hotels and a plaza. There will also be a multi-storey car park with 1,600 spaces.

The ski slope will measure 160m by 45m, with a 50m by 50m nursery slope. A cafe will overlook the nursery slope and give panoramic views out across the Bay.

Greenbank Partnerships’ Jonathan Smith said the scheme would set a new benchmark for winter leisure complexes.

He told walesonline.co.uk: “We are raising the quality so that you don’t feel that you are in a tin shed – you will be able to look out over the Bay while you are skiing.

“There is no point building another scheme like at Milton Keynes or Tamworth, they are the old school of how it was done. There is a lot more competition for money now and we have to rise to that challenge.”

Beneath the ski slope will be a 130-bedroom three star hotel and the complex will be designed around a public plaza with amphitheatre and covered arcade walkways.

A residential development, known as Cardiff Pointe, will be built on the peninsula next to the winter sports complex.

Two apartment towers standing 18 and 24 storeys high, as well as a mixture of townhouses and detached homes.

A planning application will be submitted in May and construction should start before Christmas.


Yep, all taken from walesonline... which has a new pic too.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I'm really starting to like this project. While 4000 seats for ice hockey is really the minimum needed 3100 seats will see a full house pretty much every game. I like haveing the olympic size ice pad in the main arena i think given time full size pads encourage players to develop better skills suited to international level's.
But having the smaller 56 by 26 metre trainning pad is also great for the development of under 10, 12, 14 and girls hockey. A quiet skate session can be put on the small pad where as a busy disco session can go on the big pad. The only thing that concerns me about the rink is the quality of spectator viewing. Iv'e seen in the past developers cut costs but have large concreate pillars 5 rows back. Please no concreate pillars.

I must admit i was wrong about the ski slope it's gonna take about 25 seconds to ski this for someone experienced.
With wales haveing so many mountains why not build a 500 meter slope somewhere like the open cast mine near pentyrch? or maybe somewhere else on caephilly mountain and use the natual landscape we already have?

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

jefferson

With wales haveing so many mountains why not build a 500 meter slope somewhere like the open cast mine near pentyrch? or maybe somewhere else on caephilly mountain and use the natual landscape we already have?


This was tried near Merthyr a few years back. You can still see the outline of the slope from the A470. IIRC it was stymied by a succesion of very mild winters that made operating the snow-making machines prohibitively expensive.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I have to agree an indoor slope on the side of the mountain would be great and there are plenty of spots in Wales. The Merthyr one was a dry ski slope which are a waste of time in my opinion. The slope is still small and you are probably optimistic about 25 seconds you could run 160 meters faster..but still none the less great fun

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Alun
The Merthyr one was a dry ski slope which are a waste of time in my opinion.


I think you're wrong about the Merthyr scheme. There was a short dry ski slope - but the much longer & still evidant 'scar' was meant to involve real snow.

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=8124

Re: new rink announcement? and more??



Yuck! I know it's the devils colours but I hope it ends up being more attractive than that. The facilities seem good, but lets not ruin what might be a well designed part of the bay with a garish big red box. The developer claims it is first and foremost a community facility so lets hope that stretches to the decoration!

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Looks like an exhaust. " 'ybrid turbo, butt."

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Owen
Looks like an exhaust. " 'ybrid turbo, butt."


Re: new rink announcement? and more??

the merthyr one was snow.
i have rntly written to the council about the sites ownership as i would am considering looking at a new venture on the same site, but an indoor alpine based plan on the eden construction concept, so snow all year over a significant scale.
plans etc and grants i can do, but way off on any seed money, if anyone is interested please let me know.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

From what i understand about the merthyr ski slope, is it was built on a south west face meaning it was sat in the sun all day. Merthyr tydfil ski slope is an outdoor dry ski slope but i believe they tried to use snow makeing equipment in the winter and it wasn't around long.

Snow makeing is not just about temperature it's also about humidity the higher the humidity the colder it needs to be to make snow in the uk we need most of the time tempreture's around -8c to make snow but with 0 humidity the tempreture can be upto even 1c.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Cool I stand corrected, I can't imagine who in their right mind thought snow making would work in Wales - its not cold enough for long enough. But it would be brilliant if the whole side of the mountain was devoted to an indoor slope.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Yes alun i agree it would be brilliant. The dedicated skier liveing say in london could drive to cardiff on a friday evening ski all weekend and travel back for work on a sunday evening. Of even take the train. No need to buy travel insurence, no language barriers. It could be done in the spur of a moment.
There is 1 concern i have with useing the natural contours of a large hill or small mountain. Air is very good insulation so would there be increased costs to keep the slope cool if there was no air between the slope and the ground? I think that real snow indoor ski slope's are similar to ice rinks. They both have lots of pipes run off of compresors to keep the laid snow/ice and to an extent the air cool. However an ice pad is only 60 by 30 meter's and has 14000ft of cooling pipes underneath a 500 meter long by say 60 meter wide ski slope would need 20 times the pipes. Plus the cost of makeing enough snow it's not gonna be cheap.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Internal pictures of the rink shamelessly stolen from the Devil's fans forum, the-inferno.co.uk



Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Looks pretty good. I'm keen to see external renders.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

that looks alright..

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

There's a video of the development now, but I don't think it's anything different from what we've already seen.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Commuter87
Internal pictures of the rink shamelessly stolen from the Devil's fans forum, the-inferno.co.uk





This looks smaller than the big blue tent and the old ice rink.

Looking at it how are people sat in the front 1 or 2 rows meant to see past people standing at the screens. The roof looks low as well, with it being a level soffit rather than vaulted it hems you in. I guess its less air to cool down

I was expecting a bit more Ill be honest, more of an arean feel rather than a rink with a few seats around it.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I think the above video does tell us a bit more. For one it suggests there will be a water feature of the type with a shallow pool that squirts small jets of water into the air in the summer and could potentially be used as an outdoor skating rink when cold (no idea if it requires freezing weather or whether it has it's own in-built cooling system, but there are clear imgaes of people skating on it in the vid).

It also shows lots of white mesh work above the public areas. On one level I don't like the look of it much, but on another level if it is there to shelter an outside area from the rain then it could be very useful. I tend to think places with a climate like Cardiff's should do more to provide dry walking routes through publc spaces.

Also, it does indeed suggest that the external decoration of the ice rink it going to be dog ugly with blocky devils colours prioritised over the broader public uses of th building. It's going to clash so horribly next to the swimming pool in blue. That said, it will probably only be visible from the pool and Toys R us, and will be blocked from site from other angles once the development is complete.

I hope that doesnt sound too negative, I still want to see the development go forward.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Sorry Me, have to slightly disagree re Devils colours. It is above a sports venue for a competitive side and needs to reflect the identity. I understand your point though.

All in all I think the whole development looks good, I like the idea of an outside rink and looks likely to be a fairly cool place to have a coffee, watch some people and if Bayscape goes up it will be very modern corner of the city

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Looks about 10 rows of seats hopefully each row will be atleast 35cm higher then the row infront.
I hope like cardiff city stadium this will be constructed so extra seating can be added in the future without major construction costs.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??
Re: new rink announcement? and more??

"Beneath the ski slope will be a 130-bedroom three star hotel. The plan – drawn up by architects Scott Brownrigg – also includes a 300-bed six star hotel."

Maybe to some claims of a six star hotel prompts gasps of 'Wow, how world class!'. To me it prompts 'oop, sounds like more ISV pie-in-the-sky'. I guess the developers are seeing this as a direct competition to Bayscape as opposed to a complimentary scheme. Could both be built? Do we really need a 5 star and a 6 star hotel in the same place? Sounds more like one or the other to me.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

To be honest the five star hotels in Cardiff are really bad. Hilton is a glorified 4 star hotel with travelodge esque rooms (seriously check them out on trip advisor!). St Davids is in desperate need of a makeover, and while i think it looks quite good, alot of people ive spoken to lately dont like it.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

i've been to the hilton a lot. dont like it much. there are places i prefer with 4 stars. I believe the star ratings are in part given in relation to the competition in the area, so a 5 star here would never get 5 star in London for example. Maybe if the ISV got some serious hotel action in the future then the Hilton could be downgraded to four, which feels more realistic for what it is. if if if...

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Star rating is purely down to the services a hotel can provide. For example the Marriott is only 4 star because it doesnt have a 24hr chef.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Not too sure there is anything new here but there is now a Cardiff Pointe website - http://www.cardiffpointe.co.uk/home/ Some nice images.

Not too sure if there is anything concrete happening there but I am pretty sure I saw a few surveyors down there earlier whilst I was coming out of the pool (no glasses on!)

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Apologies if this is a repost, good vid showing how the ISV might look

http://youtu.be/dF4nfMCGOmE?hd=1

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

An interersting video.

I'm slightly baffled that it refers to a "state of the art cinema". Cardiff already has a very high screen per head ratio - there's no way a fourth multiplex would be viable. It's either a "back of the envelope" thing or one or more of the existing multiplexes must be for the chop.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Ash
An interersting video.

I'm slightly baffled that it refers to a "state of the art cinema". Cardiff already has a very high screen per head ratio - there's no way a fourth multiplex would be viable. It's either a "back of the envelope" thing or one or more of the existing multiplexes must be for the chop.


Wasn't there a plan to close and convert the Vue in Millennium/Stadium Plaza?

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

bishop84
Wasn't there a plan to close and convert the Vue in Millennium/Stadium Plaza?


I think there was talk of that at one time, yes. How many owners ago that was I'm not sure!

I also think that the Red Dragon Centre could be a candidate for redevelopment in the longer term. It's a succesful place but it's got a huge footprint if you include the car-parking. I can see it being replaced by a multi-storey building and housing if the economy ever splutters into life.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

It does have a large plot even with the bits of the car park they have built on already. There is the possibility for further development. If they keep the main building hopefully they can do something about the side facing the Flourish. They could have put that gallery and crafts in the bay there rather than on the island in the middle of the junction!

Does anyone know when do the naming rights for Red Dragon run out? It seems strange that the centre is still called after a radio station that now broadcasts under a new name. Galaxy Centre anyone?

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

The Red Dragon centre was built to retain customers. Mermaid Quay is the same. Thats the annoying thing about the Bay - the lack of connectivity between the different parts.

I've always thought that in terms of urban design it would be best to knock down the RDC and build something on a grid basis with ground floor commercial premises. And if that can't happen have units facing outwards to at least create activity on the approach from Roald Dahl Plass.

But if I was the owner of the RDC I wouldn't be contemplating changing much at all. Apart from one unit it's fully let and I bet it makes a tidy profit. I went there last Sunday evening and it was very busy. I think it would take a huge upswing in either the property or office market for anyone to contemplate redeveloping it.

It's very 'out of town' in concept and design and when some people criticise the Bay for being a bit boxy or artificial I always think of the RDC as being something they must have seen to make those comments.

Getting back to the ISV the designs shown in the video suggest a much more urban design and much better integration than the inner harbour in it's current incarnation. Lets hope it actually gets built.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Karl
...if I was the owner of the RDC I wouldn't be contemplating changing much at all. Apart from one unit it's fully let and I bet it makes a tidy profit. I went there last Sunday evening and it was very busy. I think it would take a huge upswing in either the property or office market for anyone to contemplate redeveloping it.

It's very 'out of town' in concept and design and when some people criticise the Bay for being a bit boxy or artificial I always think of the RDC as being something they must have seen to make those comments.


I agree with a lot of that.

I'm pretty forgiving of the RDC. It was built in the early days of the Bay's redevelopment and was a leap of faith at the time. It has become a bit dated though and the lack of connection with the rest of the Bay is annoying.

I'm not sure it would require a huge economic upswing for at least a partial redevelopment.

It would surely make sense for the owners to reach a deal with APCOA over use of the Pierhead Street multi-storey and create a more obvious and welcoming southern entrance to the centre. Alternatively a simple parking deck on part of the site could release a section for development.

There really is a huge swathe of land between the RDC and the Future Inn with very little on any worth on it.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Lister
Apologies if this is a repost, good vid showing how the ISV might look

http://youtu.be/dF4nfMCGOmE?hd=1


have seen it before, but its always goods to have a refresh. my two comments are that firstly, it'll look nothing like this when finished - it will be value engineered in a way that only Cardiff can do. Secondly, WTF is an 'international destination'? TURN. IT. IN.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Jantra
t firstly, it'll look nothing like this when finished - it will be value engineered in a way that only Cardiff can do.


This is true. Major projects in other cities never get value-engineered in any way, ever. And Cardiff has uniquely value-engineered stuff everywhere.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

DaiB
Jantra
t firstly, it'll look nothing like this when finished - it will be value engineered in a way that only Cardiff can do.


This is true. Major projects in other cities never get value-engineered in any way, ever. And Cardiff has uniquely value-engineered stuff everywhere.

Mr DaiB

welcome back. you have been missed.

it was said tongue in cheek. we always seem to have great aspirations in this city, but we always end up with something a little less grandiose than what was first proposed.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

If there's talk of demolishing the Red Dragon Centre I'd gladly lend a hand with my pick axe.

Surely the Bay could do better than that monstrosity?

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Jantra
... we always seem to have great aspirations in this city, but we always end up with something a little less grandiose than what was first proposed.


How true. Here's an example to prove my friend, Jantra's theory. ;)

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/wpw006084

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Is it me or are the law courts and the museum the wrong way round in that picture? I'm confused.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Karl
Is it me or are the law courts and the museum the wrong way round in that picture? I'm confused.


No you're right, that shot has been mirrored as I'm sure the building in the top right is the Cardiff Uni building and the road running behind it is Park Place - should definitely be on the other side

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Ash
Jantra
... we always seem to have great aspirations in this city, but we always end up with something a little less grandiose than what was first proposed.


How true. Here's an example to prove my friend, Jantra's theory. ;)

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/wpw006084



well in my defence they were commissioned and started to be built before we were a city, and I did say city

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Jantra
Well in my defence they were commissioned and started to be built before we were a city, and I did say city



Pedantry 1 Ash 0!

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Impending Action?

Part quote from article:

However, “due to the exceptional nature of the scheme”, officers said they would accept 12.5% of the scheme being affordable housing – equivalent to 100 houses or apartments – with the rest of the affordable housing contribution being made up by a payment of £7.9 million towards the development of a new ice arena.

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