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Re: new rink announcement? and more??


I wonder whether the seperate planning applications relate to the phases of the build. It's not 100% clear which area and what homes are pat of the initial application.

Also I'm assuming the contribution to the ice arena from the developers will only be paid once the land is actually developed. However i was under the impression the arena would be built earlier. So either we have a long wait or the council will assume substantial risk on the payment.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

The last 'rumour??' I heard was that the Council wanted a start on the Arena before the Affordable Housing - thus ensuring commitment!!

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

The affordable housing element is 9 times out of 10 the very last thing to be built - think of St Davids 2 - they don't want the buyers of the expensive houses 'put off'. while i'm not too bothered about the timing of these units - if the arena is the penultimate thing to be built we could be waiting 5-10 years for the arena. I'm sure the council would want it sooner but there is no way a developer will be providing funds before their development is at least significantly complete.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I think they wanted to have it built for the 2013/14 season if I'm correct. I'd assume that the arena will commence beforehand and the developers would give the money after. It really is a priority for the Devils to play in a proper stadium

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I suspect they may move more quickly with the smaller social housing element between Morrisons and Prospect place. Having had a quick look at the planning documents, the Morrisons application is a 'detailed' application, and the document notes there have been several versions of the plans already discussed with the council. In contrast the Watkiss Way application is an 'outline' application, that provides an 'indicative layout'. The Morrisons one has a nice render of the buildings where as the Watkiss Way one doesn't. I might be reading too much into this of course.

That said both say they will be using the same colour scheme and materials as the Cardiff Pointe development itself. I suspect the developers will want them to look good, externally at least. The Morrisons site will be visible from the ski slope area and is on the main drving route into Cardiff Pointe. The Watkiss Way one has a pedestrian/cycle route prominently placed in the middle to provide a pathway from the Pont-Y-Werin footbridge to Cardff Pointe. I would imagine they want this to be an attractive route.

These Watkiss Way builds will be directly facing Bayscape (if it gets built). I wonder what the Bayscape people make of this.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

.....then again, the Morrisons Site is the one with all the 'objections'. I still go with what I've heard that they have to start on the main development before the social housing. Only time will tell which one of us is correct.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Well Christopher mentioned a press release and start date was due quite soon on bayscape, and if the plans for the rest of the isv are approved does that mean an exceptionally busy 2013 for this piece of cardiff!? fingers crossed eh or

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

What are the proposed height of the towers that will be going up in this area (incl. Cardiff Pointe, Bayscape and the unfinished Prospect Place)?

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

IIRC bayscape will be 32 storeys, cardiff pointe will be 24 and 18 and prospect place will be 19 - although A Brtion who lives there (or nearby) says it is being reduced to 14.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Today's pic of the day also shows the third proposed tower (not in the list above), which I think is part hotel and included in the leisure section of the development. and that one is 30+. You can see it on the right in soft grey tones.

Whether it will ever get built is a different matter.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I am sure that is a hotel being built there (apparently tallest building in Wales)32-storey, 120m tower

Here's the link

http://yourcardiff.walesonline.co.uk/2012/11/01/winter-sports-complex-and-wales-tallest-building-plans-submitted/

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I'm sure that Bayscape is to be 127 metres - unless that's changed now? anyway if it is then that would give it the "CARDIFFWALESMAPforum tallest in Wales" title!! (I'm having a trophy made!! - now there's an incentive to crack on) - mind you having another building of 120m about 1/4 mile away will be nice!! Still let's see what we end up with eh! Also what about that BBC relocation to this area, that was supposedly a reasonable height of building as well. Yes indeed the transformation of this penninsular could be very dramatic!! or indeed a decade from now as some tumbleweed blows across International Drive we maybe pondering the latest proposals for the area with a start date of 2024!! - well god willing anyway!!

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

anonymous7egend
I am sure that is a hotel being built there (apparently tallest building in Wales)32-storey, 120m tower

Here's the link

http://yourcardiff.walesonline.co.uk/2012/11/01/winter-sports-complex-and-wales-tallest-building-plans-submitted/


I can't let myself get excited by all these proposals any more. We had it all in the run up to 2008 with many plenty proposals. Since then prospect place has just sat idle and the rumours are it will now be downgraded from a 19 storey building to a 14 storey building. Bayscape is taking forever although I am quietly confident this will go haed we just need to wait. But as for Bay Pointe/Cardiff Pointe...I make this the third of fourth iteration from 2 different developers.

If it all comes off the the skyline alone will rival other cities of comparable size, never mind it being merely a residential area. However, in my opinion it is a long way off.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

paul - cardiffwalesmap
I'm sure that Bayscape is to be 127 metres - unless that's changed now? anyway if it is then that would give it the "CARDIFFWALESMAPforum tallest in Wales" title!! (I'm having a trophy made!! - now there's an incentive to crack on) - mind you having another building of 120m about 1/4 mile away will be nice!! Still let's see what we end up with eh! Also what about that BBC relocation to this area, that was supposedly a reasonable height of building as well. Yes indeed the transformation of this penninsular could be very dramatic!! or indeed a decade from now as some tumbleweed blows across International Drive we maybe pondering the latest proposals for the area with a start date of 2024!! - well god willing anyway!!


OK fine, but then there is the formidable hurdle of the Marina residents.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I hope the cardiff pointe plans involve renaming the street currently called International Drive. Such an awful street name, and so unrelated to what is there.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Almost as bad as 'Queen' Street.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Fortunately 'marina residents' are in another local authority and may not have that much sway.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I thought the road names were silly, but they kinda make sense. "International Drive" because its supposedly the international sports village, with the Wales international pool. "Empire Way" because it commemorates the old Empire Pool in the city centre. "Olympian Drive".. well, more sporting stuff.

It is a bit naff.. but it does make sense. That said, I wouldn't mind if they dropped the "International" bit from most things in Cardiff. The most ridiculous has got to be the "International" hotel at J32 of the M4!!

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

But it is also stupid that the pool is called international pool. It has no warm up pool so is not suitable for top level competition. And the pool isn't even on international drive. That's where you find international Morrisons, and soon the international social housing. While I'm sure the ski place will be very nice i doubt it will be up for international competition either.

i know, international name bashing is a frequent topic on this forum so sorry for bringing it up again. especially as it looks like lots of good things might be happening in this area soon.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I have to agree. Calling a road Olympian Drive when the Olympics have not come within 150 miles of it and there does not appear to be any Olympic standard facilities opens us up to ridicule.

I know the council are fixated on us being a quality European destination etc but this type of civic hyperbole is at times very embarrassing.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Surely the sames should have referenced the history of area. Something like "Rubbish Dump Drive" or "Gas Works Way" would have been ideal.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

i think red house road or red house way after the pub that was there. Or maybe road names after athleates Colin jackson lane as he ran in lane, Nick faldo drive and garath bale corner. Geraint Thomas or Nicole Cooke road.
Or have it so that as an opposing team arrives they read road signs like no chance road, kick your butt drive and ambulance on it's way for you lane

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Anyone on here (Devils fans perhaps?) know the latest on the new rink? I was hoping that if any pressure to get the whole development started that my occur would come from the Devils and their fans? Presumably the rink finish date needs to coincide with Ice Hockey seasons and what not?

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I've been thinking the sames thing If you see something under construction then you know the days of that B****y tent are numbered. Also we start to believe that the commencement of the long awaited development of this peninsular are underway. I'm sure last month it was said that work starts this month - not over yet but zero activity last time I wandered by - yesterday

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I have received a letter from the Planning Department regarding the Ice rink and Ski slope which look quite exciting.

For information visit http://planning.cardiff.gov.uk/online-applications - the Post code is CF11 0JL and the application number is 12/01861/DCI

I see the lower ski slope will be next to the bay and the higher one at the Toys R Us end.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Baywatcher
I have received a letter from the Planning Department regarding the Ice rink and Ski slope which look quite exciting.

For information visit http://planning.cardiff.gov.uk/online-applications - the Post code is CF11 0JL and the application number is 12/01861/DCI

I see the lower ski slope will be next to the bay and the higher one at the Toys R Us end.



I have tried to find this but it is beyond me. How do I find it? I would quite like giving it a read. Thanks.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??
Re: new rink announcement? and more??

111 separate documents are a lot to dig through. I've only looked at a few, but looks like the ice arena is no longer going to have such a dominant red colour, being mostly grey. It is hard to tell how nice the new design is, but when I saw the original plans I thought all the heavy red was too much, over emphasising the sports arena element as opposed to the community element, so I am glad about this change.

Perhaps they realise that sometimes sports teams change colour, so over branding the stadium can be a mistake.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I've only skimmed over the documents, but I liked what I saw.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

It does look good. Anybody know a timescale for this project?

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

At least forever

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Like the idea of an Ice Hotel...whatever it is

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

SP
Like the idea of an Ice Hotel...whatever it is


An Ice Hotel? Why, that's a hotel made of ice!

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

There is one in london, the arena looks ok it will depend on the finnish (hopefully not too flat and plasticy looking). I like the CIIA name though how much use other than and ice arena would it have?

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

The groundwork appears to have started!

Here's an update of what I know so far to have happened (apologies but this may link across with other topics and noting Bellway are back across the road, I'm quite excited this may actually happen).

It was my understanding that the rink would be completed for the 2017/18 season. There is no date set for when the full planning permission will go to the Planning Committee that I know of. Looking at the developers previous projects, unfortunately there's nothing to get excited about. And I understand the Design Commission for Wales weren't a huge fan of the design either.

There are 4 separate areas of housing withing the overall development:

1. Morrisons Site between Morrisons and Prospect Place will have 63 apartments (and hardly any car parking spaces).

2. Watkiss Way site opposite Victoria Wharf will have 95 apartments.

3. Current car park of the international pool will have 79 units, both houses and apartments.

4. The main Cardiff Pointe development of 561 homes, comprising of 392 apartments and 169 houses. The majority of apartments will be in the the 2 towers leaning into the water. There is also 982sqm of retail space. The 2 towers will be built last in this area.

All 4 of the housing elements were approved by the Council in December 2012. The Section 106 agreement was joint for the Morrisons and Watkiss Way site, but the main benefits resulting for the community include a play area and community center. The financial contribution to the ice arena is £8m.

Parking in the area will be very interesting to see when it is complete, noting that it is severely lacking! The developer's didn't think there were any parking issues. At the meeting held with residents last summer one resident offered to take them to Watermark to illustrate this point. Lets hope the area doesn't look like a giant car park!

The homes are due to be advertised with Allen & Harris, who are currently recruiting a Sales Adviser specifically for Cardiff Pointe. One estate agent I spoke to suggested they will be v high spec in the main development, I'm imagining something like Watermark, or even similar to the quality in the Hensol Castle Park development undertaken by the Leekes group in the Vale. I also understand that investor interest in the surrounding area has picked up, but personally after living on an abandoned building site for over 3 years (and longer for some), I honestly don't understand how the sheer amount of apartments between the Sports Village and Ferry Court (Prospect Place) will be sold, there's easily at least 700.

It's also rumored that work has to begin on the scheme before the social housing, to ensure it is actually complete.

There's a good aerial photograph here to put the site into perspective with the surrounding area: http://www.internationalsportsvillage.com/images/slider/slide4.jpg


You'll see that between the Sports Village area and Victoria Wharf, there is still some land, excluding the Bay Pointe area. At the presentation held by the developers for local residents, future plans for this area included more housing and the possibility of a school. However this would be decided much further into the project. I understand the Council are looking for an area for a new school in the Grangetown ward, which makes it quite a likely possibility.

I've also heard a rumor that Morrisons intends to extend, but nothing concrete as of yet.

I really do hope they get rid of the blasted tent, however it appears a replacement has surfaced in the form of the Dr Who exhibition!!

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Thank you for the large update, Gail. It never ceases to amaze me how talented and resourceful the people in this forum are!

It sounds good, and this will be an interesting development to follow in the near future. Won't it be one of the largest in recent history by sheer size?

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Gail
You'll see that between the Sports Village area and Victoria Wharf, there is still some land, excluding the Bay Pointe area. At the presentation held by the developers for local residents, future plans for this area included more housing and the possibility of a school. However this would be decided much further into the project. I understand the Council are looking for an area for a new school in the Grangetown ward, which makes it quite a likely possibility.


The Welsh Government approved funding for a new-build Welsh Medium Primary School in Grangetown last year. The detais are here www.cardiff.gov.uk/objview.asp?object_id=24849 (PDF)

It's supposed to be a single-form entry school but new WM schools tend to generate new demand in the surrounding area so it would probably become a two form entry school after a few years.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Ash
Gail
You'll see that between the Sports Village area and Victoria Wharf, there is still some land, excluding the Bay Pointe area. At the presentation held by the developers for local residents, future plans for this area included more housing and the possibility of a school. However this would be decided much further into the project. I understand the Council are looking for an area for a new school in the Grangetown ward, which makes it quite a likely possibility.


The Welsh Government approved funding for a new-build Welsh Medium Primary School in Grangetown last year. The detais are here www.cardiff.gov.uk/objview.asp?object_id=24849 (PDF)

It's supposed to be a single-form entry school but new WM schools tend to generate new demand in the surrounding area so it would probably become a two form entry school after a few years.


A Welsh medium primary in Grangetown? Bit of a surprise.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Frank
A Welsh medium primary in Grangetown? Bit of a surprise.


Not really. As it happens the first Welsh School in Cardiff opened in clasrooms in Ninian Park School in 1948!

The current Welsh schools that serve Grangetown are Ysgol Pwllcoch on Lawrenny Avenue and Tan yr Eos which shares the Ninian Park School site. Both are packed to gunnals.

The long term solution was meant to be the new-build Ysgol Treganna on Sanitorium Road which opens in September taking in kids from the old single form entry Treganna and Tan yr Eos. It's three form entry - but it's already heavily over-subscribed.

It's not the Grangetown your Gran grew up in!

One of the ironies of education in west Cardiff it that the Welsh-medium Schools have higher percentages of children who speak English as their first language than the English-medium schools. Read into that what you will.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Cardiff
There is one in london, the arena looks ok it will depend on the finnish (hopefully not too flat and plasticy looking). I like the CIIA name though how much use other than and ice arena would it have?


Are they providing the ice?

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Not sure what you mean ^^

The surfing center is nearing completion

P4208875

P4208873

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

The planning committee is meeting next week, and of successful work on the rink would start in October

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Gail
The planning committee is meeting next week, and of successful work on the rink would start in October


That's good news. I really do hope it does actually start in October.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Why would they wait till October? Why not start asap!!!!

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Peter Law, the echo journalist, is at the planning meeting and has tweeted saying that the last phase of the plan is to be a 32 story tower saying that it is to be Wales' tallest building. Is this what Bayscape will become or are we to get 2 rather tall towers down the bay?

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Its either bayscape (most likely)or the hotel element of the sports village scheme.

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

this is the tweet "Final phase will be a 32 storey tower, Wales' tallest building, which have an art gallery/cinema, luxury hotel, 60 flats and roof top garden"

from what Christopher says it seemed that work was soon to start on Bayscape but this would not be for a few more years yet. Was Bayscape originally going to hold this sort of amenities?

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Doesn't matter, it's been passed now. Looks like the ISV is going to finally kick off

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

Hopefully we'll see some development soon!

Re: new rink announcement? and more??

I see a sort of fenced off area has been erected in the area intended for expensive housing by the yacht club

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