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I hadn't noticed any acknowledgement from this site.
As for Thatcher herself, I still think her domestic record is over-rated by many of her chief supporters and her battles won at enormous cost for many. On foreign policy she was probably the greatest PM since Churchill.
Leftwingers do that - it's part of the training. Of course, when it's one of their own they go into paroxysms of grief. Personally, I like to admire anyone that has done well even if I don't agree with them
Little ignorant Tory pipsqueaks who didn't grow up in Aberdare in the early 80s might not understand. But I'm glad she's dead, and so is nearly everybody back in the Cynon Valley too.
Leftwingers do that - it's part of the training. Of course, when it's one of their own they go into paroxysms of grief. Personally, I like to admire anyone that has done well even if I don't agree with them
Little ignorant Tory pipsqueaks who didn't grow up in Aberdare in the early 80s might not understand. But I'm glad she's dead, and so is nearly everybody back in the Cynon Valley too.
Who is a little Tory pipsqueak? And I do remember further back than that.
Little ignorant Tory pipsqueaks who didn't grow up in Aberdare in the early 80s might not understand. But I'm glad she's dead, and so is nearly everybody back in the Cynon Valley too.
A few facts for the independence Pollyanna to digest
In 1929 south Wales had 250k miners
In 1979 south Wales had 20k miners
Between 1929-1979 south Wales lost more than 4000 mining jobs per annum.
More mines were closed by the left wing labour party than the centre right conservatives.
Between 1979-1984 14k miners lost their jobs. That's less than 4,000 per annum
Bizarrely, some people think quite incorrectly that thatcher is to blame for the demise of the welsh mining industry. Of course the switch to oil and the union menace of the 1960s and 1970s had nothing to do with it.
In the 1987 election Wales returned 14 conservative mps.
It's worth remembering that Wales was the exception under Thatcher. Nicholas Edwards, Peter Walker and David Hunt persued an interventionist economic policy with the WDA. It was Major that appointed John Redwood.
I think she was wrong on many things and some of the Thatcher-worship is sickening - but so is the hatred.
At the end of the day a woman has died. Her children will be feeling the grief we all feel at the loss of a parent. Why don't the worshipers and the haters both step back?
The mining industry had indeed been winding down for years, and quite right too, it was economically and environmentally unsustainable. Previous governments had gone to enormous lengths to diversify the economy and replace the lost jobs, but not Maggie, she really couldn't have given a shit. 21,500 South Wales miners' jobs gone in just a few years, plus thousands more steel jobs, and all the other local jobs and communities that depended on them, and what did we get in return? An empty LG factory at Newport and a couple of by-passes.
As for Thatcher's poor children, the arms-dealing, coup-plotting crook and the halfwitted racist journalist, well I kinda hate them too. Sorry.
I find the revelling in her death pretty repugnant really. How would people feel if people did the same when MAndela, or Tony Benn or whomever dies?
It just cheapens and poisons the whole political culture.
I've never voted Tory, but really, what Thatcherite policies would people roll back now?
Fancy not having a choice on your Phone or internet provider? Fed up with British Gas? Tough shit, you have no choice. Want spiraling inflation? Want endless strikes? Want to deny working class people the rights to own their own home?
British industry was in decine WAY before Thatcher came into power. It became uncompetitive.
I've got mixed views on her to be honest, but yeah, the people pleased to see her die...that's bad form.
In the 1987 election Wales returned 14 conservative mps.
Wales returned 14 Tory MPs in 1983, before the strike and while the anti-Tory vote was split. This fell to 8 in 1987 and 6 in 92, before two consecutive wipeouts in 97 and 2001.
The mining industry had indeed been winding down for years, and quite right too, it was economically and environmentally unsustainable. Previous governments had gone to enormous lengths to diversify the economy and replace the lost jobs, but not Maggie, she really couldn't have given a shit. 21,500 South Wales miners' jobs gone in just a few years, plus thousands more steel jobs, and all the other local jobs and communities that depended on them, and what did we get in return? An empty LG factory at Newport and a couple of by-passes.
As for Thatcher's poor children, the arms-dealing, coup-plotting crook and the halfwitted racist journalist, well I kinda hate them too. Sorry.
Lyndon, read my last post. LG happened after Thatcher left office. Major was PM. William Hague was in the Welsh Office.
During the Thatcher years we got Sony, Panasonic, Bosch, Nissan and many others. Name me the foreign companies that invested under Labour betwen 1964 and 1970 or between 1974 and 1979.
Don't misunderstand me. I think Thatcherism was bad for Wales but while you are entitled to your own opinions you are not entitled to your own facts.
Lyndon, read my last post. LG happened after Thatcher left office. Major was PM. William Hague was in the Welsh Office.
During the Thatcher years we got Sony, Panasonic, Bosch, Nissan and many others. Name me the foreign companies that invested under Labour betwen 1964 and 1970 or between 1974 and 1979.
Don't misunderstand me. I think Thatcherism was bad for Wales but while you are entitled to your own opinions you are not entitled to your own facts.
Sony opened in 1974, I don't know if Heath or Wilson get the credit for that. Bridgend Ford opened in 1977, and that has the advantage of still being open and successful.
I was thinking of more significant government directed spending, like the Trefforest and Hirwaun Industrial Estates, Hoover at Merthyr, the steel industry particularly at Port Talbot and Llanwern, Vickers-Armstrong at Broughton etc.
Little ignorant Tory pipsqueaks who didn't grow up in Aberdare in the early 80s might not understand. But I'm glad she's dead, and so is nearly everybody back in the Cynon Valley too.
A few facts for the independence Pollyanna to digest
In 1929 south Wales had 250k miners
In 1979 south Wales had 20k miners
Between 1929-1979 south Wales lost more than 4000 mining jobs per annum.
More mines were closed by the left wing labour party than the centre right conservatives.
Between 1979-1984 14k miners lost their jobs. That's less than 4,000 per annum
Bizarrely, some people think quite incorrectly that thatcher is to blame for the demise of the welsh mining industry. Of course the switch to oil and the union menace of the 1960s and 1970s had nothing to do with it.
In the 1987 election Wales returned 14 conservative mps.
I really don't know enough about the mining industry to comment. If those figures are correct it is quite startling. My own view is that after the collapse of Ted Heath's government the miners thought they were king and could stop Maggie from scaling back the industry. Alas they were wrong and hadn't bet on North Sea Oil and foreign imports. The lack of any real effort to replace those jobs was the greatest shame.
In the 1987 election Wales returned 14 conservative mps.
Wales returned 14 Tory MPs in 1983, before the strike and while the anti-Tory vote was split. This fell to 8 in 1987 and 6 in 92, before two consecutive wipeouts in 97 and 2001.
Yes my bad. You also forget they returned 8 mps in 2010, 5 more than your party. Wales is not entirely politically incontinent then.
The fact is this thread has shown a lot of lies and spin about thatcher and Wales. Yes she ignored the social aspect of the valleys post closure of the mines but by and large the uk as a whole was a much better place after she left office than before she came into office
Little ignorant Tory pipsqueaks who didn't grow up in Aberdare in the early 80s might not understand. But I'm glad she's dead, and so is nearly everybody back in the Cynon Valley too.
A few facts for the independence Pollyanna to digest
In 1929 south Wales had 250k miners
In 1979 south Wales had 20k miners
Between 1929-1979 south Wales lost more than 4000 mining jobs per annum.
More mines were closed by the left wing labour party than the centre right conservatives.
Between 1979-1984 14k miners lost their jobs. That's less than 4,000 per annum
Bizarrely, some people think quite incorrectly that thatcher is to blame for the demise of the welsh mining industry. Of course the switch to oil and the union menace of the 1960s and 1970s had nothing to do with it.
In the 1987 election Wales returned 14 conservative mps.
I'm too sensible to get drawn into a Thatcher debate but centre right?
Are you kidding? The Tories at the time were neither near the centre, nor did they claim to be. The wanted to be away from the centre – it's what made them attractive to the electorate at the time.
The current government is arguably not even centre right, and the Tories of the 1980s were far more right-wing than Cameron's government.
If you're going to engage in revisionist history please make it more plausible next time.
Little ignorant Tory pipsqueaks who didn't grow up in Aberdare in the early 80s might not understand. But I'm glad she's dead, and so is nearly everybody back in the Cynon Valley too.
A few facts for the independence Pollyanna to digest
In 1929 south Wales had 250k miners
In 1979 south Wales had 20k miners
Between 1929-1979 south Wales lost more than 4000 mining jobs per annum.
More mines were closed by the left wing labour party than the centre right conservatives.
Between 1979-1984 14k miners lost their jobs. That's less than 4,000 per annum
Bizarrely, some people think quite incorrectly that thatcher is to blame for the demise of the welsh mining industry. Of course the switch to oil and the union menace of the 1960s and 1970s had nothing to do with it.
In the 1987 election Wales returned 14 conservative mps.
I'm too sensible to get drawn into a Thatcher debate but centre right?
Are you kidding? The Tories at the time were neither near the centre, nor did they claim to be. The wanted to be away from the centre – it's what made them attractive to the electorate at the time.
The current government is arguably not even centre right, and the Tories of the 1980s were far more right-wing than Cameron's government.
If you're going to engage in revisionist history please make it more plausible next time.
where did I say Thatcher was centre right? What I said was that more mines were closed by Labour than the centre right conservatives - which is correct. It was only under Thatcher did the conservatives shift to the right, they were always a party in the centre/centre right.
Could you please list all of Margaret Thatcher's policies which have proven to have been of long term benefit to the United Kingdom?
you're not happy with your mobile phone provider - you get to choose rather than being dictated to and u switch. likewise with energy provider, water and so on.
no more being beholden to the unions, the UK is competitive, no more 3 day week, no more 50mph on motorways due to fuel shortages. no more rampant inflation as a result of the unions stifling business with their ridiculous wage demands.
we are a nation that own their own homes being able to pass on that accumulated wealth to our kin rather than having it taken off us and given to some who have nothing to do with us. Why do the left complain about greedy landlords then complain when something is done about the greediest landlord of them all - the state.
Thatcher was far from perfect, she really did overlook a lot of the social fall out of her policies, but she certainly modernised the UK and brought us back from the abyss.
perhaps you dream of living in tower blocks where we can't leave our nations own borders and have to queue for loaves of bread - you are a socialist after all. That is the way we were heading with the UK - a socialist nirvana where everyone is dragged down to a common low level rather than having aspirations of bettering themselves. Thatcher was a breathe of fresh air and she did what needed to be done, she took on the unions and crushed them.
Could you please list all of Margaret Thatcher's policies which have proven to have been of long term benefit to the United Kingdom?
you're not happy with your mobile phone provider - you get to choose rather than being dictated to and u switch. likewise with energy provider, water and so on.
no more being beholden to the unions, the UK is competitive, no more 3 day week, no more 50mph on motorways due to fuel shortages. no more rampant inflation as a result of the unions stifling business with their ridiculous wage demands.
we are a nation that own their own homes being able to pass on that accumulated wealth to our kin rather than having it taken off us and given to some who have nothing to do with us. Why do the left complain about greedy landlords then complain when something is done about the greediest landlord of them all - the state.
Thatcher was far from perfect, she really did overlook a lot of the social fall out of her policies, but she certainly modernised the UK and brought us back from the abyss.
perhaps you dream of living in tower blocks where we can't leave our nations own borders and have to queue for loaves of bread - you are a socialist after all. That is the way we were heading with the UK - a socialist nirvana where everyone is dragged down to a common low level rather than having aspirations of bettering themselves. Thatcher was a breathe of fresh air and she did what needed to be done, she took on the unions and crushed them.
So the sum total is you can choose stuff and its seen as a positive that she smashed the only legitimate means that a working person can advise their employer that they are unhappy with the terms of their employment. Brilliant. You missed a bit which was to acknowledge that royally screwing someone else became acceptable. That the need of the individual would outweigh the need of the group.
You see a society, yes there is something called this, should be judged in how we treat our young, our sick and our old and on counts the right fail, dismally, always and with lack of remorse and awareness. The state is not perfect but its the only instrument that allows society to become fairer, it provides security when individuals feel threatened. It's all there is and a right wing utopia doesn't exist, the premise of right wing economics is flawed, even Adam Smith acknowledged this.
you're not happy with your mobile phone provider - you get to choose rather than being dictated to and u switch. likewise with energy provider, water and so on.
no more being beholden to the unions, the UK is competitive, no more 3 day week, no more 50mph on motorways due to fuel shortages. no more rampant inflation as a result of the unions stifling business with their ridiculous wage demands.
we are a nation that own their own homes being able to pass on that accumulated wealth to our kin rather than having it taken off us and given to some who have nothing to do with us. Why do the left complain about greedy landlords then complain when something is done about the greediest landlord of them all - the state.
Thatcher was far from perfect, she really did overlook a lot of the social fall out of her policies, but she certainly modernised the UK and brought us back from the abyss.
perhaps you dream of living in tower blocks where we can't leave our nations own borders and have to queue for loaves of bread - you are a socialist after all. That is the way we were heading with the UK - a socialist nirvana where everyone is dragged down to a common low level rather than having aspirations of bettering themselves. Thatcher was a breathe of fresh air and she did what needed to be done, she took on the unions and crushed them.
You had four hours and that's really the best you could come up with?
Firstly, I don't recall the UK ever having a state mobile phone monopoly. You can indeed change your energy supplier, to any other member of the foreign-owned cartel, selling the same product, through the same networks. If you ever manage to untangle their deliberately complicated and exploitative pricing system you will discover that their "competitive" deals differ by 1 or 2% at the most. Which is hardly surprising under the circumstances.
And good luck changing your water supplier.
As to your tedious sub-Daily Mail rant about unions: yes, Thatcher sorted them out alright. Which might just explain why wages as a percentage of GDP are at a sixty year low, while profits by the same measure are near an all time high. Real incomes have stagnated then fallen for over a decade, driving ordinary people into greater personal debt in order to maintain their living standards. The resulting contraction in consumer demand has crippled the economy and public finances.
So that turned out great as well.
Oh, and thank goodness we can buy our own council homes, it's just a shame that nobody built any new ones to replace the ones that were sold. And this "cascading wealth" business sounds like an excellent way of increasing inequality through the concentration of unearned income in the hands of a property owning minority. And I don't know if you've seen what ex-council houses fetch up in the Valleys: I'm not expecting too much wealth to cascade down from my Mam and Dad.
I don't disagree that the mark of a society is how it looks after those who cannot look after themselves. However you need a strong economy to be able to afford all of those things that are required. You don't get that with left wing policies which, through the law of unintended consequences, reduce output and productivity.
As for your comment about unions and the workplace, this isn't the 1920s. We have legislation to protect workers. You also need to appreciate that without profits - something unions are vehemently opposed to - you don't get reinvestment and product development that ensures competitiveness, creativity and advances society. Uk manufacturing was destroyed in the 1960s and 1970s as a rest of the union menace. Rampant inflation was the result of their wage demands, low profits meant less reinvestment and innovation resulted in other nations overtaking the uk. There needs to Be balance
