The old thread on this has gone, so thought I'd start another one. Although not much info to launch it with:

Nothing story on Walesonline today about the converntion centre plans. Just suggests we will hear something new next month...

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/cardiffs-plans-convention-centre-indoor-5389835

hurray!

more wishy washy public sector speak for 'we want something to happen but since Cardiff is not a wealthy city and doesn't have a pot to piss in we have no chance of building it'.


incidentally, how do you rebuild momentum?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/cardiff-convention-centre-plan-wont-5740333 - Cardiff convention centre plan won't receive funding from Welsh Government.

Potentially good, or it could mean we end up with something resembling a giant cardboard box...

You can't - unless the laws of physics and grammar are suspended. Of course it's well known that normal laws don't apply to Cllr. Goodway!

However looks like the proposed Wales International Conference Centre at Celtic Manor will...

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/international-convention-centre-planned-celtic-6320857

Where does this leave Cardiff's plans for it's own convention centre now? TBH I'm not fussy where it is as long as it get's built, Newport/Celtic Manor are an extension to Cardiff these days and the Celtic Manor does have a burgeoning reputation, especially with recent news it's holding the 2014 NATO Summit

I'd prefer it to be in central Cardiff - I think there are greater spillovers to other parts of the economy in that case. Benefits to restaurants, bars, shops, and a wider range of hotels.

Especially if near Callaghan Square, public transport links would be much much stronger, as would air-links. Even the Bay would be better for public transport than Celtic Manor.

I must say it did seem like a strange decision - the Welsh Govt supporting a large private-sector company with a planning app that, if successful (as almost certainly it will be) will prevent what looks like a more sustainable plan with broader benefits being undertaken by Cardiff City Council. Perhaps its because funding is in place for Celtic Manor, and in Cardiff's case, the private sector money isn't there. In Celtic Manor you've got a single-minded private investor that will capture a fair amount of the benefits itself and is therefore willing to invest. In Cardiff you've got a bunch of competing hotels and restaurants who want the extra revenue from more paying guests, but don't want to stump up any cash - and who each only get a small benefit from the scheme. So perhaps the Welsh Govt has decided to back the deliverable scheme as opposed to the better scheme.

I agree with the above. It is disappointing. Both in terms of the impact it will have on the surrounding area (or not have, in this case), and because it is just a poor location for a conference centre. If it is intended for international conference use then you must assume delegates will not be driving but coming by public transport from the airport. Celtic Manor is just useless for this.

I understand what you're saying, I've always envisaged a convention centre on the site of St Davids House in between Cardiff Central and the train station, being a catalyst for the revamp north of the train station and Central Square. In fairness, Terry Matthews has been the driving force behind this, I don't know how long it'd take and how much it'd cost if left to Goodway and CCC. One built in South East Wales is better than one not built at all

Me - the reality is that Cardiff would also be pretty crap for delegates arriving by air (the Celtic Manor is nearer to a functioning airport than Cardiff is....but that's a separate thread).

It is difficult for an independent observer not to choose the Celtic Manor option really isn't it? You have a professional private investor with a proven track record who is ready to roll and likely to deliver a convention centre so much quicker than any dreamy unfunded artists impressions in central Cardiff.

Incidentally, where does that leave the idea of a larger arena? In tatters I fear. Was the convention centre to be a part of a bigger scheme and now is even more remote than ever?

I went up to Manchester last weekend for a gig and was stunned at the size of their (tackily named) Phones 4U Arena. It was more like half a stadium to be honest. It appears that lots of bands simply by-pass our neck of the woods (Wales & SW England) because neither us nor Brizzle have got a 10-15,000 arena. Glasgow's shiny new one opened last month* as did Leeds' a bit further back. The CIA is a bit small when compared to its peers these days.


* Can we get the SNP in power down here to get some infrastructure projects delivered???

I think that with a forthcoming Heathrow rail spur giving direct links to Cardiff central then a slightly longer train ride to cardiff to get to a convention centre that you can see, and walk to, from the station (and then be in the middle of a city) is a much more appealing option than a train to Newport followed by a taxi ride or bus ride to an out of town resort.

I get the business case argument, sure, but that doesn't mean it can't still seem a shame.

On the arena plan, I had though cardiff council wanted to bundle them both together, and that this was part of a plan to host the commonwealth games. Whatever, I doubt the Celtic Manor plan makes an arena any more likely.

With all due respect me, if you're landing at heathrow, there are much better conference facilities nearer than Cardiff

Sure, but you go to the conference centre where the conference you want to go to is located, not the nearest one to the airport. The trick is to appeal to conference organisers, which is all about price, location and facilities. It's not obvious to me that Celtic Manor would beat central cardiff on any of these. Where Celtic Manor looks like it will beat cardiff central is that it might actually get built.

The Celtic Manor has won best Hotel Conference facility in the UK for 5 yrs running, even with just the facility it currently has! There is a huge demand for World class Hotels with world class conference facility combined, huge demand. Cardiff City will have a conference center too because there is also HUGE demand for that also, they are aimed at different markets completly and those that think having one at The Celtic Manor will is enough are silly..the UK economy is the 5/6th biggest in the world and the whole country is hugely under supplied with good Hotel/conference and City Centre/Conference venues...having both will give Wales a massive boost..both need to be encouraged.

It pisses me so much when i read on Wales-online people almost in disgust and disbelief that the welsh government is helping to fund a new conference center at The Manor resort! typical comments are 'will the welsh government getr part of the profits' and 'they are idiots as Sir Terry is a millionaire' duh! do these idiots not know how the world works? Wales is missing millions upon millions in revenue every day we do not have conference facilities that are desperatly needed! bloody hell it will bring huge amounts of capital into the economy for gods sake! its exactly that sort of attitude that singles wales out as the worst performing region of the UK in terms of economic performance!

Try not to read them. They can make a sane person worry.Rest assured they are no worse than the majority of comments sections on most newspapers across the UK.

Christopher - I'm not sure I agree with you. The question of whether this is a good use of money or not is whether

(a) there is a broader economic benefit to having the conference centre than just the profits to Terry Matthews. If not, you don't subsidise private gains.

(b) even if there is a social gain, is a subsidy necessary to get the thing built or are the expected private gains large enough to do so.

I think in the answer to (a) is Yes, but the answer to (b) may no No. I think this would have gone ahead anyway and Celtic Manor have bluffed the WG into contributing to the application.

I'd echo the comments already expressed. TM has the financial werewithal to actually build this, CCC has an aspiration that doesn't appear to be shared by the private sector at this stage. Therefore on balance it is better to actually have a physical convention centre fit for purpose in south east Wales rather than a set of drawings and a vision.

I guess you could argue that Celtic Manor is within the proposed Cardiff/south Wales city region and as such it's a logical step for infrastructure projects such as this to be built within the wider city region and with WG assistance.

I agree entirely with this. There is a huge shortage in the UK and indeed the EU of closed resort/conference facilities. The Celtic Manor proposals are different to anything that exists in the UK at the moment.

There is a different market for city based conference facilities where a range of accomodation is required for delegates. Put simply, the Celtic Manor centre is likely to appeal to high-end international conferences while a Cardiff centre would appeal more to UK trades unions, public sector conferences and the like.

I predict that both will happen. To quote someone involved in the Cardiff plans "the Welsh Government knew we'd build ours anyway - the two plans are complimentary"

Thank Fcuk for Terry

I guess you'd see the likes of the G8, Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, EU and heck, even Bilderberg Meetings at Celtic Manor, the high-end, high-security meetings, very similar to Gleneagles in Scotland and Lough Erne is Northern Ireland.

Celtic Manor is never going to be a ExCeL, NEC, SECC, GMEX type place which I'd guess is the void the proposed Cardiff Convention Centre would fill, which would host CBI/party political conferences, Sports Personality of the Year and the sort. Along with an new arena/revamped CIA holding 10 to 12k people and South East Wales would have it covered for events!

I don't know whether a bigger arena is on the cards for Cardiff. Certainly live performances have been a booming industry in recent years. I know that certain acts (Little Britain I seem to remember) performing about 4 nights in a row at the CIA. Other acts have done multiple nights too. Unless people are going more than once that suggests there is sometimes demand for tickets far in excess of what the CIA can hold. Ideally the CIA may be too small. However I'm not sure something akin to Manchester would be viable. However would someone build a new arena for say a 30% increse in capacity, which might be what's needed?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/new-city-region-south-east-wales-6428815

Mr Goodway said that the discussions the council has had with convention centre operators across Europe, suggested that the region could accommodate two convention centres.

Mr Goodway: “The Celtic Manor is a fantastic asset for Wales and will host the Nato Summit extremely well.

“A proposed new convention centre there has been on the radar for months and all the feedback we have had from operators across Europe is that it is a completely different offer from what we have put on the table for Cardiff.”

He said Cardiff – utilising an indoor arena and its exhibition space – would be the ideal location for party political conferences, while the convention centre could attract conferences from across the UK and Europe.

He added: “Cardiff is an events city and for political conferences it is also about the fringe events, which our existing hotels could accommodate.”


As previously mentioned, we may be looking at 2 conference centres for the region in coming years

A little update on both the Cardiff and Celtic Manor projects today in the press

In Cardiff Labour seem to be taking an age over this, unsurprisingly

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/plans-convention-centre-exhibition-hall-6555469

While in Newport the council are bending over backwards to let Terry do whatever he wants

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/new-details-revealed-proposed-international-6540105

A start planned just after the NATO summit in September.

The night-time render / visualisation of the proposed convention centre is fantastic! I believe that this was done by local firm Holder Mathias Architects....

I like to think Holder Mathias can be the final architects for our convention centre - keeping the design of such an important building within such a well respected local firm - similar to how the Wales Mellenium Centre was designed by local firm Percy Thomas (later emalgormated with Capita).

Is Holder Mathias therefore the chosen architects for this scheme? - I hope so!

http://www.holdermathias.com/sites/default/files/projects/3802_cardiff_convention_centre_tower.jpg

http://www.holdermathias.com/sites/default/files/styles/project_hero/public/projects/3802_cardiff_convention_centre_night.jpg

Looks very nice.

I'll believe it when I see it. Looks very expensive for the age of austerity. Where would it be built?

That proposal was for Pierhead street and i dont think was a really well though out scheme.

Couple of recent links concerning Cardiff's Convention Centre dreams...

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/wales/108669-cardiff-group-edges-towards-arena-rather-convention-centre

A group set up to drive economic development in Cardiff is likely to recommend that the city gives up its plan to build a convention centre and concentrate on a new arena instead.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/stephen-leeke-for-cardiff-not-6724892

Stephen Leeke: 'For Cardiff not to have a convention centre is an anomaly'


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-opinion/convention-centre-newport-would-benefit-6723814

Giving up on a convention centre is an opportunity for Cardiff to show it is willing to put aside a strategically important city project for the benefit of the wider city region

Looks like the tide is turning on Russell's grand plans The arena is a must and I suppose the Celtic Manor having the convention centre is a far better position that not having that presence, but it would be nice to have a Liverpool Echo Arena fusion of arena and conference centre.

Well... what a difference a couple of days can make, a story did make an appearance on the WalesOnline website with our Russell saying that indeed the Cardiff Convention Centre was full-speed ahead however that story seems to have been mysteriously pulled The following link(s) paraphrases some of what Russell said in the initial article (which still appears as an story on Google News)...

http://www.c-mw.net/newsdetails/3862/cardiff-and-newport-compete-to-build-convention-centres
http://www.conference-news.co.uk/news/2014/02/21/Long-wait-for-ICC-in-Wales-then-two-come-along/6841

Meanwhile, Russell Goodway, Cardiff Council’s Cabinet Member for Finance has been flying the flag for a dedicated convention centre still to be built in Cardiff regardless of plans for a facility in Newport.

Goodway said the council has received 45 responses from organisations relating to plans for an international convention centre, indoor arena and exhibition centre. The cost of the projects is put at around £150m.

The Cardiff blueprints, so far, are for a convention centre only able to accommodate 1,500 delegates, with the indoor arena having capacity for around 12,000.

Goodway told Wales Online that a full procurement exercise should be concluded by the summer with a view to the facilities, which could be housed under one roof in a multi-purpose venue or in three separate buildings at the same location, being completed by 2016. He said the convention centre element would not require any funding from the Welsh Government and envisaged the projects being financed through a design, build, finance and operate model which would see risk being transferred to the private sector.

Renders of the new Celtic Manor Convention Centre have been unveiled



Newport\'s Celtic Manor Resort has unveiled the images for its international convention centre.

The Wales International Convention Centre is set to create 150 extra jobs once it is complete.

It will have the capacity for about 4,000 people and is due to open in summer 2018.

It will be built over three floors on land next to junction 24 of the M4 and cover more than 20,000 sq m (215,278 sq ft).

Newport City Council granted the project planning permission in earlier this month.

Celtic Manor Resort chief operating officer Ian Edwards said: \"It will bring enormous economic benefits to the cities of Newport and Cardiff and the wider surrounding region.\"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-28237319

Must say, it looks fairly impressive

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/11332171.Look_of_Celtic_Manor_convention_centre_revealed/?ref=var_0

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/first-look-wales-international-convention-7399677

Very impressive indeed. A worthy addition to the Cardiff Capital Region

Indeed - and that for me is the main thing. As well as adding a very important facility in Newport itself, and to Wales as a whole, if we are all to think of the wider South East Wales area as part of this Cardiff Capital Region it's important for some of the important infrastructure and facilities like this to be in places other than the city of Cardiff.

Possibly hotels, restaurants etc in Cardiff could benefit from this anyway, but could it also result in one or two more hotels being built in Newport ?

What it will do is poke Cardiff City Council in the eye. Maybe there is room for another convention centre in Cardiff aimed at a slightly different market, who knows, but they need to work far more quickly than they are in getting to the point that they can convince the private sector to come and build one.

This looks like a class act.

I can't imagine any pulse being detectable in the metaphorical body of a Cardiff convention centre if this is going to be built by 2018.