Penarth, our nearest neighbour, is a cozy town filled with colourful Victorian and Edwardian homes and businesses, and the place seems to have an air affluence around it.

Cardiff is expanding, albeit at a slow pace, and I was wondering if it would be possible for us to annex them. If so, when? I seriously doubt that I will see it within my lifetime, but it was just something that I thought about for a long time.

Jantra, you live in Penarth, if I'm correct. What do you, and the other Penarth poster think about this idea. Would you prefer to be annexed by us, or would you like to retain your autonomy?

What do the Cardiffians think?

I thought Penarth, Dinas Powys and Barry were an extension to Cardiff all but in name already?

Penarth doesn't have autonomy. It was 'annexed' by the Vale in 1974 and is mostly run from Barry. Penarth Town Council still has a few powers, functions and responsiblities.

Penarth and Cardiff will be merged at local government level within 10 years.

Penarth and Dinas Powys should definitely be annexed. But Barry shouldn't. It's quite separate and distinct as well as large enough in and of itself (50,000-60,000 souls) but there's also deprivation and other serious social issues that I'm not sure Cardiff should get directly bogged down and burdened with; it's not like the city is lacking in such areas already.

Well before you annex anywhere you must rid yourself of the idea Cardiff is expanding at a 'slow rate'....it's currently one of the top 4 growing Cities in the UK, soon i dont think there will be any inbetween bit between Cardiff and Penarth, it will just merge seemlessly, where i live in London iv met a few people over the years that have qouted Penarth as being a suburb of Cardiff? like Mumbles is to Swansea i think Penarth is to Cardiff maybe?

Really, wow! That's actually pretty interesting. Colour me ignorant.

Penarth is de facto Cardiff. Its the same post code, dialling code, its part of a contiguous urban area. Its economically tied to Cardiff, its residents will work mainly in Cardiff. There are some who will protest its not Cardiff but the reality is its now cardiffs most southern suburb.

I imagine that when local welsh governments are reorganised into fewer entities, penarth, dinas and silly will become part of the enlarged city in the south west and maybe wenvoe in the west

Absolutely not - no never - we wont to keep our affluence to ourselves. If you want expansion, seek out new lands in the valleys! That said, there was a competition to name the new regional authority for the Cardiff area. I would favour Greater Cardiff innit! Acually I would prefer much smaller authories, I've no love of empire building.

Going back to the first paragraph, it's true that when shops become vacant in Penarth, they don't stay vacant for very long.

Penarth (Garden by the Sea) has its own identity but sadly is run from Barry (Chip alley by the Sea)

The LordCrow, you are wasted on this forum, you so should be on the ITV breakfast programme, what does everyone think, post your views now. Coming up after the break we'll talk to a man from Penarth who has an evil twin.

Send us a tweet now, the hash tag is #Inane Chitchat

the question was asked of Cardiffians

....and that's a big 'LOL' from me.....

Anything that effects Penarth, I have the right to comment on.

As people have said, it is Cardiff in all but name...but it is also Penarth in name. I suspect its Town Council would need to be retained if it were to be integrated successfully into Cardiff's boundaries (that's successfully from a political perspective, rather than a performance perspective).

However I don't favour redrawing political boundaries purely for the sake of it, and removing it from the Vale and adding it to Cardiff would leave VoG looking a wee bit small. However some kind of overarching strategy for the area, like a city region(!) would make sense from a planning, transport and development point of view. There may also be scope to share some local authority services and who knows, perhaps there is a case beyond simple politics to alter boundaries.

As a Penarth resident it is definitely a 'de facto' Cardiff suburb - If I'm talking to anyone from outside the local area I just tell them I live in Cardiff.

Many people from Penarth dislike being run from Barry and think they get a raw deal - i wonder if Penarth contributes as much or more council tax as Barry despite its smaller size?

I think Penarth would fit very well if it was officially part of Cardiff. Cardiff is keen to build its tourism offering and things like the cliff side walk and Penarth seafront may well have been better handled if a larger more competent council were involved.

Wasn't Penarth a part of Cardiff once? I seem to remember there are nice old lampposts with the Cardiff crest on them.

No. Penarth has never been a part of Cardiff. As someone whose family have lived in Penarth for 5 generations I can state that with absolute certainty. I live in Cardiff now, although the majority of my relatives still live in Penarth. I find Penarth cliquey and stuffy. It's beautiful though.

What Arthur said. Penarth can be quite cliquey to a certain degree

Face it, it may not officially be part of Cardiff, but everyone sees it that way.

Penarth Pier has re-opened after 5 years of refurb. Pics on the link below.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/historic-welsh-pier-reopens-public-6359416

'Up-market' Penarth marina restaurant Pier 64 only got a '1' for its food hygiene rating. Yuck:

http://ratings.food.gov.uk/business/en-GB/187897/Pier-64-Ltd-Penarth

I often stroll the short distance from home to Pier 64 to indulge myself with a foie gras and soy smoothie after a tough session accounting. The staff are delightful and the food is, as the french say, Wunderbar! It seems though that this is yet another attempt by the socialist state to stifle a successful business.

Cleanliness is next to Godliness and as my regular readers know, I am an ordained atheist (in the church of the eternal sceptic). Who really cares if raw meat drips on to cooked meat in the fridge? In Germany this would be considered innovative; the Schwabian delicacy mittelschweinfliegenkopfwürst is prepared by encouraging a pig to have a nosebleed onto a bacon chop.


All I know is that by over-regulating our fine dining establishments, the Trots on the Vale council are strangling entrepreneurialism, throttling the human spirit and proving once and for all that the Welsh would rather not join the civilised nations who are enjoying badly stored caviar than suffer a three week bout of campylobacter. It truly is health and safety AND political correctness gone mad.

my own experiences don't echo yours. I have dined there once and didn't really think it was all that. I prefer the Custom House to be honest. perhaps you should stroll just a little further.

NB you're a bit odd really aren't you.

But I am a reflection of you. Without you, I am............nothing.

Wait till midnight. Go to a mirror, but take a banana. Look at your reflection and on the stroke of midnight, close your eyes, say "Jantwat" three times and take a bite of the banana. Assuming you've remembered to peel the banana first, open your eyes and you will see me, Jantwat, looking back at you.

And that's Magic

You are nothing like me. You don't know me and you have unusual behaviour. Its not normal to stalk another on an Internet forum. You're a wave short of a shipwreck

You are talking to me; that is you are talking to you. You, that is to say, I, need to work out whether or not we care not whether the you that you are talking to is an a priori construct of what I, or should I say you, believe to be a construct of your consciousness.

I hope that clears up the epistemological side of things.

As to stalking, you and I, Jantra and Jantwat are stalking Socialism, Nationalism, the Welsh, those Fat Cats at City Hall, the numbskulls at HMRC, Swansea, people from Swansea, people that disagree with us, dole bludgers and of course the Welsh Labour Party (except in Cardiff, where for some reason we believe that they are doing a good job).


Let all who hear our clarion call for a new centre-right business-focused political party for Wales throng to the majestic tones of our polemic.

Let those who oppose our outpourings of truth fall blinded by its majesty and ethereal pomp.

Let those who ignore our song for a smaller state be smote as unbelievers.

For we are the tribe of Jant, magnificent dyad whose will and intellect will conquer petty bureaucracy and ingrown socialism alike!

For Penarth!

For Liberty!

For England!

But most of all, for Jant!

Seriously, you've got issues

Even more seriously, YOU'VE got issues.

Thankfully our issues pale in comparison to yours.

This is so funny!
Paul are the IP's both from Penarth?

On the food standards stuff, I saw that Pier 64 got a 1 out of 5 and I rang them up last September asking if they would like some printed out as they were not displaying them. They made some comment to the effect that they were challenging the results and they were not correct anyhow...B*****ks!

Do all establishments now not have to display their shame on the door, as I still see only 4's and 5's.

On the Jantra/Janwat thing.
Here is a sample Text Analysis from the two parties

Sample #1 Janwat

Total word count : 100
Number of different words : 98
Complexity factor (Lexical Density) : 98%
Readability (Gunning-Fog Index) : (6-easy 20-hard) 10.8
Total number of characters : 1099
Number of characters without spaces : 683
Average Syllables per Word : 1.69
Sentence count : 9
Average sentence length (words) : 20.56
Max sentence length (words) : 55
( all i know is that by over regulating our fine dining establishments the trots on the vale council are strangling entrepreneurialism throttling the human spirit and proving once and for all that the welsh would rather not join the civilised nations who are enjoying badly stored caviar than suffer a three week bout of campylobacter)
Min sentence length (words) : 7
( in germany this would be considered innovative)
Readability (Alternative) beta : (100-easy 20-hard, optimal 60-70) 43

Sample #2 Jantra

Total word count : 137
Number of different words : 108
Complexity factor (Lexical Density) : 78.8%
Readability (Gunning-Fog Index) (6-easy 20-hard) 9.4
Total number of characters : 1395
Number of characters without spaces : 834
Average Syllables per Word : 1.65
Sentence count : 15
Average sentence length (words) : 16.33
Max sentence length (words) : 30
( again some people are so attached to political dogma that they would prefer to see failing services and falling living standards than to entertain there may be a better way)
Min sentence length (words) : 4
( regarding your last point)
Readability (Alternative) beta (100-easy 20-hard, optimal 60-70) 50.8


As we see there is similarities especially the Gunning-Fog index
both equate to a reading age of 15-18
I concur that it is the same person!!


Test Sample #3
This is an opening gambit from The LordCrow,
as we see here the Gunning-Fog is now 6.7 which equates to a reading age of less than 10 (sorry!)

Total word count : 71
Number of different words : 61
Complexity factor (Lexical Density) : 85.9%
Readability (Gunning-Fog Index)(6-easy 20-hard) 6.7
Total number of characters : 892
Number of characters without spaces : 450
Average Syllables per Word : 1.53
Sentence count : 13
Average sentence length (words) : 14.25
Max sentence length (words) : 21
( over the last couple of weeks my friends and i have been discussing the possibility of a cardiff mreto subway system)
Min sentence length (words) : 7
( what s your opinion on the matter)
Readability (Alternative) beta (100-easy 20-hard, optimal 60-70) 63

nice analysis Zach although your conclusions are wrong. I am most certainly not Jantwat.