if
it's about Cardiff..
Sport, Entertainment, Transportation, Business,
Development Projects, Leisure, Eating, Drinking,
Nightlife, Shopping, Train Spotting! etc.. then we want it here!
will the decisions that this group make be the best decisions for the majority of businesses and people of Wales? it has a wide range of expertise from all aspects of business and wider society.
NB well done to a certain individual on their appointment, perhaps you can convince them that the Laffer curve may hold true around the edges, but the notion that we will see an influx of high net worth individuals to Wales by lowering the higher rate* is laughable.
*it is highly unlikely that a socialist party like Welsh Labour would ever actually reduce taxes preferring to squeeze us until the pips squeak
I hear he is a very fine fellow indeed, and hopes to have a significant input into the work of the group, but worries some of his suggestions might be seen as a bit too 'radical' a departure from the current set up.
Worth noting that the planned reforms will give Wales control over basically all the key property taxes:
Now that we have a fifth columnist on the inside when do we launch our coup d'etat?
I've always fancied myself as a benevolent(ish) dictator. I think the first thing I'll do after I've seized the reigns of power is organise a show trial for the architect behind Ty Pont Haearn.
Seriously, congratulations to RC. I'm sure you will bring a fresh and distinctive voice to the group. These type of advisory groups in Wales can sometimes be like Australian soap operas ie. you get the same faces on all of them so it's nice to see someone outside of the usual roster taking part.
Good on you David, I hope some of your views are listened to.
Karl, seeing as Roger Lewis might be a little too busy sorting out the mess that is Welsh rugby how about you head up the city region group in his place ?
I know we have a regular forum member in Mark on it but the more the merrier !
I hear he is a very fine fellow indeed, and hopes to have a significant input into the work of the group, but worries some of his suggestions might be seen as a bit too 'radical' a departure from the current set up.
Worth noting that the planned reforms will give Wales control over basically all the key property taxes:
Now that we have a fifth columnist on the inside when do we launch our coup d'etat?
I've always fancied myself as a benevolent(ish) dictator. I think the first thing I'll do after I've seized the reigns of power is organise a show trial for the architect behind Ty Pont Haearn.
Seriously, congratulations to RC. I'm sure you will bring a fresh and distinctive voice to the group. These type of advisory groups in Wales can sometimes be like Australian soap operas ie. you get the same faces on all of them so it's nice to see someone outside of the usual roster taking part.
I hear he is a very fine fellow indeed, and hopes to have a significant input into the work of the group, but worries some of his suggestions might be seen as a bit too 'radical' a departure from the current set up.
Worth noting that the planned reforms will give Wales control over basically all the key property taxes:
Stamp Duty Land Tax
Council Tax
Business Rates
You know what Cromwell said about keeping your powder dry?
Well yours is #drippingwet RandyCamby.
Maybe you shouldn't have 'nuanced' your debating so much.
I hear he is a very fine fellow indeed, and hopes to have a significant input into the work of the group, but worries some of his suggestions might be seen as a bit too 'radical' a departure from the current set up.
Worth noting that the planned reforms will give Wales control over basically all the key property taxes:
Stamp Duty Land Tax
Council Tax
Business Rates
You know what Cromwell said about keeping your powder dry?
Well yours is #drippingwet RandyCamby.
Maybe you shouldn't have 'nuanced' your debating so much.
What is that supposed to mean? Cambo is a professional who is entitled to his opinion. He doesn't go wading in and always articulates his position lucidly and with conviction. I don't always agree with his views but I reckon he will bring a lot of fresh ideas to the table
I hear he is a very fine fellow indeed, and hopes to have a significant input into the work of the group, but worries some of his suggestions might be seen as a bit too 'radical' a departure from the current set up.
Worth noting that the planned reforms will give Wales control over basically all the key property taxes:
Stamp Duty Land Tax
Council Tax
Business Rates
You know what Cromwell said about keeping your powder dry?
Well yours is #drippingwet RandyCamby.
Maybe you shouldn't have 'nuanced' your debating so much.
What is that supposed to mean? Cambo is a professional who is entitled to his opinion. He doesn't go wading in and always articulates his position lucidly and with conviction. I don't always agree with his views but I reckon he will bring a lot of fresh ideas to the table
He is an economist who not only failed to see the financial crisis and recession coming but also argued passionately that it couldn't happen. He refused to recognise the housing 'bubble'.
He is anti-devolution and what some 'nationalist pollyannas' would dub a 'self-hating' Welshman.
He is unashamedly pro-Labour (no surprise as he works for the IFS) and is clearly on this body for his political sympathies as much as his expertise.
My post was mocking him for openly spouting so much cant and dogma and now being on policy-making body.
Thanks for your ten years of quite patronising input, Dai. It will come in useful.
Maybe you should take a leaf out of Andrew RT Davies' book, Jantra and think about what will serve your children and grandchildren, rather than your usual English brown-nosing.
I hear he is a very fine fellow indeed, and hopes to have a significant input into the work of the group, but worries some of his suggestions might be seen as a bit too 'radical' a departure from the current set up.
Worth noting that the planned reforms will give Wales control over basically all the key property taxes:
Stamp Duty Land Tax
Council Tax
Business Rates
You know what Cromwell said about keeping your powder dry?
Well yours is #drippingwet RandyCamby.
Maybe you shouldn't have 'nuanced' your debating so much.
What is that supposed to mean? Cambo is a professional who is entitled to his opinion. He doesn't go wading in and always articulates his position lucidly and with conviction. I don't always agree with his views but I reckon he will bring a lot of fresh ideas to the table
He is an economist who not only failed to see the financial crisis and recession coming but also argued passionately that it couldn't happen. He refused to recognise the housing 'bubble'.
He is anti-devolution and what some 'nationalist pollyannas' would dub a 'self-hating' Welshman.
He is unashamedly pro-Labour (no surprise as he works for the IFS) and is clearly on this body for his political sympathies as much as his expertise.
My post was mocking him for openly spouting so much cant and dogma and now being on policy-making body.
Thanks for your ten years of quite patronising input, Dai. It will come in useful.
Maybe you should take a leaf out of Andrew RT Davies' book, Jantra and think about what will serve your children and grandchildren, rather than your usual English brown-nosing.
With all due respect back then Cambo was a recent graduate with little real life experience. He is now older and wiser. By all means criticise his policies, but leave the vitriol behind.
As for your last comment, you hold a bigoted view of the world. The English are no different from the welsh. I have more in common with a wurzel than I do a gog. No one brown noses anybody, I just don't see nationality as being important. Why not google 'pale blue dot' and have a look at the insignificance of nationalism in the wider context.
I am sure you will agree that Einstein was far more intelligent than you. It was Einstein that said nationalism was a nineteenth century disease of the mind. Einstein saw first hand what nationalism could do. Perhaps you think Einstein was wrong about nationalism and that you know better
I hear he is a very fine fellow indeed, and hopes to have a significant input into the work of the group, but worries some of his suggestions might be seen as a bit too 'radical' a departure from the current set up.
Worth noting that the planned reforms will give Wales control over basically all the key property taxes:
Stamp Duty Land Tax
Council Tax
Business Rates
You know what Cromwell said about keeping your powder dry?
Well yours is #drippingwet RandyCamby.
Maybe you shouldn't have 'nuanced' your debating so much.
What is that supposed to mean? Cambo is a professional who is entitled to his opinion. He doesn't go wading in and always articulates his position lucidly and with conviction. I don't always agree with his views but I reckon he will bring a lot of fresh ideas to the table
He is an economist who not only failed to see the financial crisis and recession coming but also argued passionately that it couldn't happen. He refused to recognise the housing 'bubble'.
He is anti-devolution and what some 'nationalist pollyannas' would dub a 'self-hating' Welshman.
He is unashamedly pro-Labour (no surprise as he works for the IFS) and is clearly on this body for his political sympathies as much as his expertise.
My post was mocking him for openly spouting so much cant and dogma and now being on policy-making body.
Thanks for your ten years of quite patronising input, Dai. It will come in useful.
Maybe you should take a leaf out of Andrew RT Davies' book, Jantra and think about what will serve your children and grandchildren, rather than your usual English brown-nosing.
With all due respect back then Cambo was a recent graduate with little real life experience. He is now older and wiser. By all means criticise his policies, but leave the vitriol behind.
As for your last comment, you hold a bigoted view of the world. The English are no different from the welsh. I have more in common with a wurzel than I do a gog. No one brown noses anybody, I just don't see nationality as being important. Why not google 'pale blue dot' and have a look at the insignificance of nationalism in the wider context.
I am sure you will agree that Einstein was far more intelligent than you. It was Einstein that said nationalism was a nineteenth century disease of the mind. Einstein saw first hand what nationalism could do. Perhaps you think Einstein was wrong about nationalism and that you know better
Yes I believe that Einstein is wrong about nationalism. He was a theoretical physicist and his opinions about nationalism carry no more weight than, say, an accountant's or mine.
If you aren't in favour of Welsh or Scottish nationalism then you are almost certainly an English, British, UK or European nationalist. One of the aspects of human culture that is so precious is the thousands of different nationalities and languages which exist. Would you prefer that we were all speaking English or German? As you've said, you have more in common with an English Wurzel than a Welsh Gog.
I hear he is a very fine fellow indeed, and hopes to have a significant input into the work of the group, but worries some of his suggestions might be seen as a bit too 'radical' a departure from the current set up.
Worth noting that the planned reforms will give Wales control over basically all the key property taxes:
Stamp Duty Land Tax
Council Tax
Business Rates
You know what Cromwell said about keeping your powder dry?
Well yours is #drippingwet RandyCamby.
Maybe you shouldn't have 'nuanced' your debating so much.
What is that supposed to mean? Cambo is a professional who is entitled to his opinion. He doesn't go wading in and always articulates his position lucidly and with conviction. I don't always agree with his views but I reckon he will bring a lot of fresh ideas to the table
He is an economist who not only failed to see the financial crisis and recession coming but also argued passionately that it couldn't happen. He refused to recognise the housing 'bubble'.
He is anti-devolution and what some 'nationalist pollyannas' would dub a 'self-hating' Welshman.
He is unashamedly pro-Labour (no surprise as he works for the IFS) and is clearly on this body for his political sympathies as much as his expertise.
My post was mocking him for openly spouting so much cant and dogma and now being on policy-making body.
Thanks for your ten years of quite patronising input, Dai. It will come in useful.
Maybe you should take a leaf out of Andrew RT Davies' book, Jantra and think about what will serve your children and grandchildren, rather than your usual English brown-nosing.
With all due respect back then Cambo was a recent graduate with little real life experience. He is now older and wiser. By all means criticise his policies, but leave the vitriol behind.
As for your last comment, you hold a bigoted view of the world. The English are no different from the welsh. I have more in common with a wurzel than I do a gog. No one brown noses anybody, I just don't see nationality as being important. Why not google 'pale blue dot' and have a look at the insignificance of nationalism in the wider context.
I am sure you will agree that Einstein was far more intelligent than you. It was Einstein that said nationalism was a nineteenth century disease of the mind. Einstein saw first hand what nationalism could do. Perhaps you think Einstein was wrong about nationalism and that you know better
Yes I believe that Einstein is wrong about nationalism. He was a theoretical physicist and his opinions about nationalism carry no more weight than, say, an accountant's or mine.
If you aren't in favour of Welsh or Scottish nationalism then you are almost certainly an English, British, UK or European nationalist. One of the aspects of human culture that is so precious is the thousands of different nationalities and languages which exist. Would you prefer that we were all speaking English or German? As you've said, you have more in common with an English Wurzel than a Welsh Gog.
You are more English than the English.
Britain or Europe are not nations so I cannot possibly be a British or European nationalist. Britain is a geographical area and Europe (assuming you mean the EU) is a political entity. I am welsh, British and European with all three being coterminous, they are not mutually exclusive.
I prefer to see myself as an Internationalist, a member of the human race. You suggest that one group of people are better equipped to govern than another based on where they were born and which side of a line of a map they are from. A line that is artificially created by man based on an outdated ideology of territory and property rights.
Perhaps you can explain why you think someone from ynys mon is more capable of making the better political decisions for me than say someone from Bristol? Having more in common with the wurzels doesn't make me English in the same way that the residents of malmo and Copenhagen are Swedish and Danish despite being culturally, political and economically entwined. Your attempt at a dig is petty and futile. Unlike you I have no issue with the English, my wife is English, my best friends are English, my sons are half welsh half English and speak both languages fluently. England is a great place, the same as Wales really. I'm not going to hold the past against a nation of 53m people, a past they didn't cause nor can influence.
I hear he is a very fine fellow indeed, and hopes to have a significant input into the work of the group, but worries some of his suggestions might be seen as a bit too 'radical' a departure from the current set up.
Worth noting that the planned reforms will give Wales control over basically all the key property taxes:
Stamp Duty Land Tax
Council Tax
Business Rates
You know what Cromwell said about keeping your powder dry?
Well yours is #drippingwet RandyCamby.
Maybe you shouldn't have 'nuanced' your debating so much.
What is that supposed to mean? Cambo is a professional who is entitled to his opinion. He doesn't go wading in and always articulates his position lucidly and with conviction. I don't always agree with his views but I reckon he will bring a lot of fresh ideas to the table
He is an economist who not only failed to see the financial crisis and recession coming but also argued passionately that it couldn't happen. He refused to recognise the housing 'bubble'.
He is anti-devolution and what some 'nationalist pollyannas' would dub a 'self-hating' Welshman.
He is unashamedly pro-Labour (no surprise as he works for the IFS) and is clearly on this body for his political sympathies as much as his expertise.
My post was mocking him for openly spouting so much cant and dogma and now being on policy-making body.
Thanks for your ten years of quite patronising input, Dai. It will come in useful.
Maybe you should take a leaf out of Andrew RT Davies' book, Jantra and think about what will serve your children and grandchildren, rather than your usual English brown-nosing.
With all due respect back then Cambo was a recent graduate with little real life experience. He is now older and wiser. By all means criticise his policies, but leave the vitriol behind.
As for your last comment, you hold a bigoted view of the world. The English are no different from the welsh. I have more in common with a wurzel than I do a gog. No one brown noses anybody, I just don't see nationality as being important. Why not google 'pale blue dot' and have a look at the insignificance of nationalism in the wider context.
I am sure you will agree that Einstein was far more intelligent than you. It was Einstein that said nationalism was a nineteenth century disease of the mind. Einstein saw first hand what nationalism could do. Perhaps you think Einstein was wrong about nationalism and that you know better
Yes I believe that Einstein is wrong about nationalism. He was a theoretical physicist and his opinions about nationalism carry no more weight than, say, an accountant's or mine.
If you aren't in favour of Welsh or Scottish nationalism then you are almost certainly an English, British, UK or European nationalist. One of the aspects of human culture that is so precious is the thousands of different nationalities and languages which exist. Would you prefer that we were all speaking English or German? As you've said, you have more in common with an English Wurzel than a Welsh Gog.
You are more English than the English.
Britain or Europe are not nations so I cannot possibly be a British or European nationalist. Britain is a geographical area and Europe (assuming you mean the EU) is a political entity. I am welsh, British and European with all three being coterminous, they are not mutually exclusive.
I prefer to see myself as an Internationalist, a member of the human race. You suggest that one group of people are better equipped to govern than another based on where they were born and which side of a line of a map they are from. A line that is artificially created by man based on an outdated ideology of territory and property rights.
Perhaps you can explain why you think someone from ynys mon is more capable of making the better political decisions for me than say someone from Bristol? Having more in common with the wurzels doesn't make me English in the same way that the residents of malmo and Copenhagen are Swedish and Danish despite being culturally, political and economically entwined. Your attempt at a dig is petty and futile. Unlike you I have no issue with the English, my wife is English, my best friends are English, my sons are half welsh half English and speak both languages fluently. England is a great place, the same as Wales really. I'm not going to hold the past against a nation of 53m people, a past they didn't cause nor can influence.
Yes that's very nice and I'm pleased for you. However, I live in the real world with actual people. I suggest that you join it and us asap.
I hear he is a very fine fellow indeed, and hopes to have a significant input into the work of the group, but worries some of his suggestions might be seen as a bit too 'radical' a departure from the current set up.
Worth noting that the planned reforms will give Wales control over basically all the key property taxes:
Stamp Duty Land Tax
Council Tax
Business Rates
You know what Cromwell said about keeping your powder dry?
Well yours is #drippingwet RandyCamby.
Maybe you shouldn't have 'nuanced' your debating so much.
What is that supposed to mean? Cambo is a professional who is entitled to his opinion. He doesn't go wading in and always articulates his position lucidly and with conviction. I don't always agree with his views but I reckon he will bring a lot of fresh ideas to the table
He is an economist who not only failed to see the financial crisis and recession coming but also argued passionately that it couldn't happen. He refused to recognise the housing 'bubble'.
He is anti-devolution and what some 'nationalist pollyannas' would dub a 'self-hating' Welshman.
He is unashamedly pro-Labour (no surprise as he works for the IFS) and is clearly on this body for his political sympathies as much as his expertise.
My post was mocking him for openly spouting so much cant and dogma and now being on policy-making body.
Thanks for your ten years of quite patronising input, Dai. It will come in useful.
Maybe you should take a leaf out of Andrew RT Davies' book, Jantra and think about what will serve your children and grandchildren, rather than your usual English brown-nosing.
With all due respect back then Cambo was a recent graduate with little real life experience. He is now older and wiser. By all means criticise his policies, but leave the vitriol behind.
As for your last comment, you hold a bigoted view of the world. The English are no different from the welsh. I have more in common with a wurzel than I do a gog. No one brown noses anybody, I just don't see nationality as being important. Why not google 'pale blue dot' and have a look at the insignificance of nationalism in the wider context.
I am sure you will agree that Einstein was far more intelligent than you. It was Einstein that said nationalism was a nineteenth century disease of the mind. Einstein saw first hand what nationalism could do. Perhaps you think Einstein was wrong about nationalism and that you know better
Yes I believe that Einstein is wrong about nationalism. He was a theoretical physicist and his opinions about nationalism carry no more weight than, say, an accountant's or mine.
If you aren't in favour of Welsh or Scottish nationalism then you are almost certainly an English, British, UK or European nationalist. One of the aspects of human culture that is so precious is the thousands of different nationalities and languages which exist. Would you prefer that we were all speaking English or German? As you've said, you have more in common with an English Wurzel than a Welsh Gog.
You are more English than the English.
Britain or Europe are not nations so I cannot possibly be a British or European nationalist. Britain is a geographical area and Europe (assuming you mean the EU) is a political entity. I am welsh, British and European with all three being coterminous, they are not mutually exclusive.
I prefer to see myself as an Internationalist, a member of the human race. You suggest that one group of people are better equipped to govern than another based on where they were born and which side of a line of a map they are from. A line that is artificially created by man based on an outdated ideology of territory and property rights.
Perhaps you can explain why you think someone from ynys mon is more capable of making the better political decisions for me than say someone from Bristol? Having more in common with the wurzels doesn't make me English in the same way that the residents of malmo and Copenhagen are Swedish and Danish despite being culturally, political and economically entwined. Your attempt at a dig is petty and futile. Unlike you I have no issue with the English, my wife is English, my best friends are English, my sons are half welsh half English and speak both languages fluently. England is a great place, the same as Wales really. I'm not going to hold the past against a nation of 53m people, a past they didn't cause nor can influence.
Yes that's very nice and I'm pleased for you. However, I live in the real world with actual people. I suggest that you join it and us asap.
How many suns does this real world of yours have?
Just because I don't define a Welshman as being someone who doesn't crave independence doesn't mean I don't live in the real world. You need to start appreciating and respecting others opinions. You come across as a bigoted socialist tolerant of only those who share your own opinions.
Sadly I won't get a say regarding tax policy in Wales, but I hope the welsh government gets tax powers because then they will have to accept real responsibility and face up to their rank incompetence. Let’s hope it happens and then maybe the Welsh voter/tax payer will be able to watch WAG crash and burn!! After all there's not a one of them that has the intelligence to balance a set of scales let alone the economy of 5% of the uk population.
Bring it on baby!!!!
Let’s hope it happens and then maybe the Welsh voter/tax payer will be able to watch WAG crash and burn!! After all there's not a one of them that has the intelligence to balance a set of scales let alone the economy of 5% of the uk population.
I have pondered this for an eternity; back and forth bounces the conundrum in my razor-sharp mind. Obviously as a Libertardian I don't approve of taxes but needs do as needs must. The subsidy from our English masters is not enough to keep our woeful populace in scratchcards, pot noodles and Strongbow. A radical taxation solution is needed.
Eureka! Last night it came to me in a dream. Wales should tax........
BEING WELSH!!
This would encourage the Welsh freeloaders to move to places that reward sloth, like communist France, or the Gypsy heartlands of western Romania.
Wales would be freed up for the English to enjoy. Let's face facts, most Welsh people don't have the aesthetic or intellectual capacity to appreciate the beautiful mountains and coasts of Wales. Tax 'em to the hilt, those that can't pay? Ship 'em out and let the worthy English be the new custodians of our bountiful but broken land.
I've just come across your article regarding us 'strolling across the summit of the Laffer curve'. It seems your article points towards us not really raising any further revenue from raising tax rates (based on HMRC's 2012 analysis), but that given the uncertainties it would be worth revisiting.
Would you say that is a fair synopsis?
The reason I ask is that in my experience changes to tax rates don't really affect the majority of income tax payers - the majority of behavioural changes come from those who hold investments and can choose when to convert gains to income. This group is a smaller than the higher rate group as a total and I was wondering how this feeds in to your analysis?
I've just come across your article regarding us 'strolling across the summit of the Laffer curve'. It seems your article points towards us not really raising any further revenue from raising tax rates (based on HMRC's 2012 analysis), but that given the uncertainties it would be worth revisiting.
Would you say that is a fair synopsis?
The reason I ask is that in my experience changes to tax rates don't really affect the majority of income tax payers - the majority of behavioural changes come from those who hold investments and can choose when to convert gains to income. This group is a smaller than the higher rate group as a total and I was wondering how this feeds in to your analysis?
Great question. Obviously the hoi polloi will have no understanding of it whatsoever but technically a great question. Cambo is clearly keeping his own counsel but it was very magnanimous of you to throw this enthralling poser out into the public domain.
We all know how much people love dry, esoteric, hypothetical, jargon-filled debates about fascinating subjects such as marginal tax rates. Thank God that we live in a world where discussions about subjects such as the 'Laffer curve' provoke such a strong and immediate response from interested parties.
You really are the life and soul of the party, Jantra! Next time we get together, Mrs Jantard and Mrs Jantra can fill there pretty little heads with their dreary gossip while we mull over exciting concepts such as the penalties for late submission of tax returns. Ooh and we can continue with our argument from last time about which colour paint is the most exciting to watch dry?! Beige or taupe??! You rascal with your beige fixation!!
I've just come across your article regarding us 'strolling across the summit of the Laffer curve'. It seems your article points towards us not really raising any further revenue from raising tax rates (based on HMRC's 2012 analysis), but that given the uncertainties it would be worth revisiting.
Would you say that is a fair synopsis?
The reason I ask is that in my experience changes to tax rates don't really affect the majority of income tax payers - the majority of behavioural changes come from those who hold investments and can choose when to convert gains to income. This group is a smaller than the higher rate group as a total and I was wondering how this feeds in to your analysis?
Great question. Obviously the hoi polloi will have no understanding of it whatsoever but technically a great question. Cambo is clearly keeping his own counsel but it was very magnanimous of you to throw this enthralling poser out into the public domain.
We all know how much people love dry, esoteric, hypothetical, jargon-filled debates about fascinating subjects such as marginal tax rates. Thank God that we live in a world where discussions about subjects such as the 'Laffer curve' provoke such a strong and immediate response from interested parties.
You really are the life and soul of the party, Jantra! Next time we get together, Mrs Jantard and Mrs Jantra can fill there pretty little heads with their dreary gossip while we mull over exciting concepts such as the penalties for late submission of tax returns. Ooh and we can continue with our argument from last time about which colour paint is the most exciting to watch dry?! Beige or taupe??! You rascal with your beige fixation!!
Jantra - first, that is a fair summary. The main argument for revisiting is that we now have a couple years more data, and HMRC did do a bit of a rushed job. We are also producing our own estimates later this year.
Those with dividends income (from their own firm, so they can chose the timing of dividend payments) are certainly the most responsive when it comes to tax-planning, and reallocating income over time (e.g. the forestalling, whereby they brought income forward into 2009 to avoid the 50p rate in later years). In the longer term, it could be the case that those with investments are also more responsive because they have greater ability to turn their income into capital gains, and thereby pay CGT rather than income tax. Interestingly those with large investments in uncontrolled companies can't respond quite so much (no ability to time dividends to pay when they're under the top rate threshold) - but they may be sophisticated so use other ways to avoid the tax - an accountant would know more about that. People with largely earned income can also respond though, by pension contributions for instance (although these are now capped at 40k a year, or 1.25m over a lifetime).
HMRC have looked at the responsiveness of all these sources of income taken as a whole, which is correct when trying to look at the effects of applying a 50p rate to all sources of income. Which is broadly what we should be doing (otherwise you give incentives to tax avoid by switching remuneration form - as is the case with capital gains, or self-employed getting lower NICs etc).
Jantard - you really don't warrant a reply. You're the equivalent of the playground bully shouting "spoff" or "swat" or whatever derogatory term used to criticise those showing a bit of interest in something "uncool". Just as such bullies are responsible for a lot of kids not reaching their academic potential, people like you are responsible for the crappy quality of public debate and understanding of key issues in politics, economics etc.
Thank you for a most interesting post. My understanding of economics is sketchy at the least but now some simple research has taught me something. Please continue with these posts! It makes one realise the tightrope a Chancellor must walk in order to collect taxes and still increase productivity.
Jantra - first, that is a fair summary. The main argument for revisiting is that we now have a couple years more data, and HMRC did do a bit of a rushed job. We are also producing our own estimates later this year.
Those with dividends income (from their own firm, so they can chose the timing of dividend payments) are certainly the most responsive when it comes to tax-planning, and reallocating income over time (e.g. the forestalling, whereby they brought income forward into 2009 to avoid the 50p rate in later years). In the longer term, it could be the case that those with investments are also more responsive because they have greater ability to turn their income into capital gains, and thereby pay CGT rather than income tax. Interestingly those with large investments in uncontrolled companies can't respond quite so much (no ability to time dividends to pay when they're under the top rate threshold) - but they may be sophisticated so use other ways to avoid the tax - an accountant would know more about that. People with largely earned income can also respond though, by pension contributions for instance (although these are now capped at 40k a year, or 1.25m over a lifetime).
HMRC have looked at the responsiveness of all these sources of income taken as a whole, which is correct when trying to look at the effects of applying a 50p rate to all sources of income. Which is broadly what we should be doing (otherwise you give incentives to tax avoid by switching remuneration form - as is the case with capital gains, or self-employed getting lower NICs etc).
Jantard - you really don't warrant a reply. You're the equivalent of the playground bully shouting "spoff" or "swat" or whatever derogatory term used to criticise those showing a bit of interest in something "uncool". Just as such bullies are responsible for a lot of kids not reaching their academic potential, people like you are responsible for the crappy quality of public debate and understanding of key issues in politics, economics etc.
Thanks for replying, even though I didn't warrant a reply. If only you knew who I was? Your cheap, personal attack on me is an attack on yourself, you gigantic muppet-shaped buffoon. I am going to enjoy this even more from now on, twinkle toes.
Great question. Obviously the hoi polloi will have no understanding of it whatsoever but technically a great question. Cambo is clearly keeping his own counsel but it was very magnanimous of you to throw this enthralling poser out into the public domain.
We all know how much people love dry, esoteric, hypothetical, jargon-filled debates about fascinating subjects such as marginal tax rates. Thank God that we live in a world where discussions about subjects such as the 'Laffer curve' provoke such a strong and immediate response from interested parties.
You really are the life and soul of the party, Jantra! Next time we get together, Mrs Jantard and Mrs Jantra can fill there pretty little heads with their dreary gossip while we mull over exciting concepts such as the penalties for late submission of tax returns. Ooh and we can continue with our argument from last time about which colour paint is the most exciting to watch dry?! Beige or taupe??! You rascal with your beige fixation!!
Jantard
I do appreciate you taking time to respond although I do have to say that whilst your choice and description of what constitutes entertainment is colourful, it is somewhat way off the mark.
This is a forum about Cardiff and this thread is in particular about the Tax Advisory Group that has been set up to look at how the Welsh Government can use whatever tools it has in its arsenal for the betterment of Wales. Should you find such topics of insufficient interest then may I be so bold as to suggest you can read the 'what's are your favourite crisps?' thread instead.
Jantra - first, that is a fair summary. The main argument for revisiting is that we now have a couple years more data, and HMRC did do a bit of a rushed job. We are also producing our own estimates later this year.
Those with dividends income (from their own firm, so they can chose the timing of dividend payments) are certainly the most responsive when it comes to tax-planning, and reallocating income over time (e.g. the forestalling, whereby they brought income forward into 2009 to avoid the 50p rate in later years). In the longer term, it could be the case that those with investments are also more responsive because they have greater ability to turn their income into capital gains, and thereby pay CGT rather than income tax. Interestingly those with large investments in uncontrolled companies can't respond quite so much (no ability to time dividends to pay when they're under the top rate threshold) - but they may be sophisticated so use other ways to avoid the tax - an accountant would know more about that. People with largely earned income can also respond though, by pension contributions for instance (although these are now capped at 40k a year, or 1.25m over a lifetime).
HMRC have looked at the responsiveness of all these sources of income taken as a whole, which is correct when trying to look at the effects of applying a 50p rate to all sources of income. Which is broadly what we should be doing (otherwise you give incentives to tax avoid by switching remuneration form - as is the case with capital gains, or self-employed getting lower NICs etc).
in the way that enterprise zones often shift activity rather than create new activity, is there a danger that (assuming Wales is able to amend just the higher rate) we could see high earners locating to Wales merely to take advantage of the lower tax regime (an income tax Delaware) but actually keep their operational base as is? We have seen the effects of switching main residences for MPs and whilst I'm not saying this may be allowed, given we have never had multiple income tax rates between constituent countries in the UK, it would be interesting to see what approach HMRC would take to high earners owning property in Wales and declaring it as their main residence! of course this ignores downstream impacts such as CGT on secondary residences but the concept of two higher rate bands based on geography coupled with WGs stated aim of driving relocation got me thinking how this could reduce the overall tax take for the union and not actually see any increase for Wales (from the law of unintended consequences).
Great question. Obviously the hoi polloi will have no understanding of it whatsoever but technically a great question. Cambo is clearly keeping his own counsel but it was very magnanimous of you to throw this enthralling poser out into the public domain.
We all know how much people love dry, esoteric, hypothetical, jargon-filled debates about fascinating subjects such as marginal tax rates. Thank God that we live in a world where discussions about subjects such as the 'Laffer curve' provoke such a strong and immediate response from interested parties.
You really are the life and soul of the party, Jantra! Next time we get together, Mrs Jantard and Mrs Jantra can fill there pretty little heads with their dreary gossip while we mull over exciting concepts such as the penalties for late submission of tax returns. Ooh and we can continue with our argument from last time about which colour paint is the most exciting to watch dry?! Beige or taupe??! You rascal with your beige fixation!!
Jantard
I do appreciate you taking time to respond although I do have to say that whilst your choice and description of what constitutes entertainment is colourful, it is somewhat way off the mark.
This is a forum about Cardiff and this thread is in particular about the Tax Advisory Group that has been set up to look at how the Welsh Government can use whatever tools it has in its arsenal for the betterment of Wales. Should you find such topics of insufficient interest then may I be so bold as to suggest you can read the 'what's are your favourite crisps?' thread instead.
Favourite crisps? I don't eat crisps as they are full of carbs, fats, salt and carcinogens called acrilamydes. Anywaaaaaaay....
It's so typical of you and your fun-loving nature to focus on the minutiae of the thorny subject of income tax devolution to Wales! Rather than looking at the bigger picture or discussing Andrew RT Davies' epoch-making decision to sack 4 shadow cabinet members for refusing to vote WITH Plaid's amendment last week, you focus on subject matter which, while undoubtedly relevant, is one small aspect of the detail of this issue.
I love beige but taupe is just so much greyer. And what is brown without some grey to liven it up?
Jantra - first, that is a fair summary. The main argument for revisiting is that we now have a couple years more data, and HMRC did do a bit of a rushed job. We are also producing our own estimates later this year.
Those with dividends income (from their own firm, so they can chose the timing of dividend payments) are certainly the most responsive when it comes to tax-planning, and reallocating income over time (e.g. the forestalling, whereby they brought income forward into 2009 to avoid the 50p rate in later years). In the longer term, it could be the case that those with investments are also more responsive because they have greater ability to turn their income into capital gains, and thereby pay CGT rather than income tax. Interestingly those with large investments in uncontrolled companies can't respond quite so much (no ability to time dividends to pay when they're under the top rate threshold) - but they may be sophisticated so use other ways to avoid the tax - an accountant would know more about that. People with largely earned income can also respond though, by pension contributions for instance (although these are now capped at 40k a year, or 1.25m over a lifetime).
HMRC have looked at the responsiveness of all these sources of income taken as a whole, which is correct when trying to look at the effects of applying a 50p rate to all sources of income. Which is broadly what we should be doing (otherwise you give incentives to tax avoid by switching remuneration form - as is the case with capital gains, or self-employed getting lower NICs etc).
Jantard - you really don't warrant a reply. You're the equivalent of the playground bully shouting "spoff" or "swat" or whatever derogatory term used to criticise those showing a bit of interest in something "uncool". Just as such bullies are responsible for a lot of kids not reaching their academic potential, people like you are responsible for the crappy quality of public debate and understanding of key issues in politics, economics etc.
Thanks for replying, even though I didn't warrant a reply. If only you knew who I was? Your cheap, personal attack on me is an attack on yourself, you gigantic muppet-shaped buffoon. I am going to enjoy this even more from now on, twinkle toes.
oh dear - look, as soon as things get personal they make this forum shall we say a less pleasant place to be. The vast majority of visitors don't know or care who anyone is and if someone's viewpoint infuriates anyone then please try and put your side politely or perhaps avoid the thread - if not possible then avoid the forum. Forums are about sharing information and of course debate, therefore we will never all agree with each other all the time. I just worry that people (long-time lurkers) who I'd love to start posting on this cardiff 'centre of the universe!' forum may be discouraged when they see an uncomfortable side to the place. OK sheriff badge off - onward and upward!! as they say at the glass needle site!!
Great question. Obviously the hoi polloi will have no understanding of it whatsoever but technically a great question. Cambo is clearly keeping his own counsel but it was very magnanimous of you to throw this enthralling poser out into the public domain.
We all know how much people love dry, esoteric, hypothetical, jargon-filled debates about fascinating subjects such as marginal tax rates. Thank God that we live in a world where discussions about subjects such as the 'Laffer curve' provoke such a strong and immediate response from interested parties.
You really are the life and soul of the party, Jantra! Next time we get together, Mrs Jantard and Mrs Jantra can fill there pretty little heads with their dreary gossip while we mull over exciting concepts such as the penalties for late submission of tax returns. Ooh and we can continue with our argument from last time about which colour paint is the most exciting to watch dry?! Beige or taupe??! You rascal with your beige fixation!!
Jantard
I do appreciate you taking time to respond although I do have to say that whilst your choice and description of what constitutes entertainment is colourful, it is somewhat way off the mark.
This is a forum about Cardiff and this thread is in particular about the Tax Advisory Group that has been set up to look at how the Welsh Government can use whatever tools it has in its arsenal for the betterment of Wales. Should you find such topics of insufficient interest then may I be so bold as to suggest you can read the 'what's are your favourite crisps?' thread instead.
Favourite crisps? I don't eat crisps as they are full of carbs, fats, salt and carcinogens called acrilamydes. Anywaaaaaaay....
It's so typical of you and your fun-loving nature to focus on the minutiae of the thorny subject of income tax devolution to Wales! Rather than looking at the bigger picture or discussing Andrew RT Davies' epoch-making decision to sack 4 shadow cabinet members for refusing to vote WITH Plaid's amendment last week, you focus on subject matter which, while undoubtedly relevant, is one small aspect of the detail of this issue.
I love beige but taupe is just so much greyer. And what is brown without some grey to liven it up?
interesting. you appear to have decided what is relevant and what is not relevant or what we should and shouldn't be discussing. perhaps you should do what the forum owner suggests and live and let live. there's a thought
Jantra - first, that is a fair summary. The main argument for revisiting is that we now have a couple years more data, and HMRC did do a bit of a rushed job. We are also producing our own estimates later this year.
Those with dividends income (from their own firm, so they can chose the timing of dividend payments) are certainly the most responsive when it comes to tax-planning, and reallocating income over time (e.g. the forestalling, whereby they brought income forward into 2009 to avoid the 50p rate in later years). In the longer term, it could be the case that those with investments are also more responsive because they have greater ability to turn their income into capital gains, and thereby pay CGT rather than income tax. Interestingly those with large investments in uncontrolled companies can't respond quite so much (no ability to time dividends to pay when they're under the top rate threshold) - but they may be sophisticated so use other ways to avoid the tax - an accountant would know more about that. People with largely earned income can also respond though, by pension contributions for instance (although these are now capped at 40k a year, or 1.25m over a lifetime).
HMRC have looked at the responsiveness of all these sources of income taken as a whole, which is correct when trying to look at the effects of applying a 50p rate to all sources of income. Which is broadly what we should be doing (otherwise you give incentives to tax avoid by switching remuneration form - as is the case with capital gains, or self-employed getting lower NICs etc).
in the way that enterprise zones often shift activity rather than create new activity, is there a danger that (assuming Wales is able to amend just the higher rate) we could see high earners locating to Wales merely to take advantage of the lower tax regime (an income tax Delaware) but actually keep their operational base as is? We have seen the effects of switching main residences for MPs and whilst I'm not saying this may be allowed, given we have never had multiple income tax rates between constituent countries in the UK, it would be interesting to see what approach HMRC would take to high earners owning property in Wales and declaring it as their main residence! of course this ignores downstream impacts such as CGT on secondary residences but the concept of two higher rate bands based on geography coupled with WGs stated aim of driving relocation got me thinking how this could reduce the overall tax take for the union and not actually see any increase for Wales (from the law of unintended consequences).
This is nothing new, you may not have had multiple rates within the UK but those that can (eg the rich generally) have taken advantage of the varying rates around the UK. People commute between Northern Ireland and the ROI (and vice versa), travel from the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands to London, Monaco to London and we have had pilots trying to say they are based in France, with the family happily living in Reading!
The good old USA has differing rates between states (Delaware the one of choice for companies). The EU has differing corporation rates which has seen a considerable churn in the City of London.
By the way do not trust your solicitor with the stamp duty you pay, check it has actually been passed on - amazing how many crooks have been turning up.
This is nothinpg new, you may not have had multiple rates within the UK but those that can (eg the rich generally) have taken advantage of the varying rates around the UK. People commute between Northern Ireland and the ROI (and vice versa), travel from the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands to London, Monaco to London and we have had pilots trying to say they are based in France, with the family happily living in Reading!
The good old USA has differing rates between states (Delaware the one of choice for companies). The EU has differing corporation rates which has seen a considerable churn in the City of London.
By the way do not trust your solicitor with the stamp duty you pay, check it has actually been passed on - amazing how many crooks have been turning up.
Jeremy
the RoI, IoM and Channel Islands are not part of the UK for the purposes of tax. if you are UK resident for tax purposes then you are UK resident. Overseas income is declared and tax credits are issued assuming a DTT is in place. I was talking specifically about a multi layered tax rates for UK residents where individuals can pick and choose their jurisdiction. Hence my 'an income tax Delaware' post earlier.
Delaware may have the majority of incorporations in the USA (in relative terms), but that doesn't mean the businesses have a physical location in Delaware. Other than filing fees and work for local accountants and tax practitioners, I'm unsure what other benefits Delaware's tax haven status actually brings to Delaware. Contrary to what our politicians in the Senedd may think, I can't see someone locating to Wales to save 3% on the higher rate. Even if you earn £1m per annum that is only £30k - not a figure to be sniffed at but when you're earning £1m per annum are you going to move your family to Wales, away from all the best schools, the most vibrant regional economies and the greatest opportunities. What else is there for high earners to come to Wales for other than shaving 3% of their high rate tax bill?
This is nothinpg new, you may not have had multiple rates within the UK but those that can (eg the rich generally) have taken advantage of the varying rates around the UK. People commute between Northern Ireland and the ROI (and vice versa), travel from the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands to London, Monaco to London and we have had pilots trying to say they are based in France, with the family happily living in Reading!
The good old USA has differing rates between states (Delaware the one of choice for companies). The EU has differing corporation rates which has seen a considerable churn in the City of London.
By the way do not trust your solicitor with the stamp duty you pay, check it has actually been passed on - amazing how many crooks have been turning up.
Jeremy
the RoI, IoM and Channel Islands are not part of the UK for the purposes of tax. if you are UK resident for tax purposes then you are UK resident. Overseas income is declared and tax credits are issued assuming a DTT is in place. I was talking specifically about a multi layered tax rates for UK residents where individuals can pick and choose their jurisdiction. Hence my 'an income tax Delaware' post earlier.
Delaware may have the majority of incorporations in the USA (in relative terms), but that doesn't mean the businesses have a physical location in Delaware. Other than filing fees and work for local accountants and tax practitioners, I'm unsure what other benefits Delaware's tax haven status actually brings to Delaware. Contrary to what our politicians in the Senedd may think, I can't see someone locating to Wales to save 3% on the higher rate. Even if you earn £1m per annum that is only £30k - not a figure to be sniffed at but when you're earning £1m per annum are you going to move your family to Wales, away from all the best schools, the most vibrant regional economies and the greatest opportunities. What else is there for high earners to come to Wales for other than shaving 3% of their high rate tax bill?
The point is that people live with differing rates and different locations can use them to differentiate or encourage various economic activity (or discourage other types of economic activity). It is not the end of civilisation but it could restrict the power of the London Treasury.
Some people will do some very strange things for money, moving to Wales is not the strangest but it would not be an area that I would look at first. Business and property taxes would seem a more appropriate area to try and encourage employment and grow the tax base.
