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LDP Transport Options

The following appeared in todays "Echo"

No substance to ‘bus only’ fears

I am aware that troubling letters have appeared recently in the Echo regarding plans to make Cowbridge Road East bus only, or one way systems, supposedly in line with the emerging deposit LDP “local plan” documents.

I want to start by saying that these statements are mistaken and inaccurate. Also, I would like to clearly outline the council’s position and allay any such concerns for residents and local business interests.

Overall, relating to the wider transport plans for a potential rapid transit (tram/bus) link to the city centre, I can categorically and unequivocally stipulate that there are currently no definitive proposals on the table at present.

Indeed the options presented in the LDP evidence have no formal status as development proposals and consequently, therefore, there is no clear evidence to support a specific option recommendation.

Indeed, the options do not indicate any policy steer on route alignments or transport mode options that could be proposed.

In sum, therefore, a very significant amount of study and feasibility work is still required before proposals could be presented to the council and, in this context, it is crucial for the local community to understand there is no clear evidence to support any specific option proposal.

However, to clarify the position further we are confident that it is possible to categorically rule out in future any proposals for a bus only use along Cowbridge Road East.

Also, we are able to rule out in future any proposals to introduce large scale one-way circulation traffic proposals in this area, as well. We are able to say this because we are confident that to ensure a prosperous and welcoming environment for those using and living in the area such options would be detrimental.

Overall, the council is committed to improving these important local neighbourhood centres, to make them more accessible, nicer and more welcoming places to shop and visit.

We have an ongoing programme of seeking to invest in these centres and make improvements where we can.

In view of this we are pleased to be able to put local residents’ minds at rest by categorically denying any substance to these unnecessary and totally unfounded claims.

Ramesh Patel

Cardiff county councillor for Canton Ward and cabinet member for strategic planning, transport & highways


As I read it Councillor Patel is effectively saying that the transport options in the LDP aren't worth the paper they are printed on, which corresponds with the comment made to me by a council official at an LDP "consultation" session. It also appears to categorically rule out the one way
and bus only options mooted for Cowbridge Road East, in which case why are they even in the LDP documentation?

However is this really the case? There are a lot of politicians weasel words and careful phrasing in this letter (.... currently no definitive proposals on the table at present.)

It is no wonder that people have so little faith in the LDP process.

Re: LDP Transport Options

Good to hear that buses don't form the spine of the west Cardiff transport plans, this does sound a bit wishy washy though and does suggest we're not even a short distance down the road (rail?) towards the Metro.



Re: LDP Transport Options

I assume today's pic of the day is one of the options being discussed

Re: LDP Transport Options

What is the point of the LDP? this patel guy doesn;t have a clue? what a poorly written letter, why have an LDP. if they are not going to use it?

I am going to spend all my time planning to build a snow dome, not really going to happen it's only written on paper!

Re: LDP Transport Options

Cllr Patel can huff and puff all he wants to.

The simple fact is that a bus corridor along Cowbridge Rd East is one of the three options for the 'north west corridor' in the Metro plans. True, it may only have been included to 'make up the numbers' and evidence suggests that Tram/Train will be the preferred option but while the plans remain on the table Cllr Patel can hardly complain if his political opponants use them against him.

Re: LDP Transport Options

Ash
Cllr Patel can huff and puff all he wants to.

The simple fact is that a bus corridor along Cowbridge Rd East is one of the three options for the 'north west corridor' in the Metro plans. True, it may only have been included to 'make up the numbers' and evidence suggests that Tram/Train will be the preferred option but while the plans remain on the table Cllr Patel can hardly complain if his political opponants use them against him.



I haven't read it, but does "bus corridor" necessarily equate to "bus only" access?

Re: LDP Transport Options

Simon__200
Ash
Cllr Patel can huff and puff all he wants to.

The simple fact is that a bus corridor along Cowbridge Rd East is one of the three options for the 'north west corridor' in the Metro plans. True, it may only have been included to 'make up the numbers' and evidence suggests that Tram/Train will be the preferred option but while the plans remain on the table Cllr Patel can hardly complain if his political opponants use them against him.



I haven't read it, but does "bus corridor" necessarily equate to "bus only" access?


The plans show two dedicnated bus-only lanes and a single lane for 'local traffic' running one way only.

Re: LDP Transport Options

Ash
Simon__200
Ash
Cllr Patel can huff and puff all he wants to.

The simple fact is that a bus corridor along Cowbridge Rd East is one of the three options for the 'north west corridor' in the Metro plans. True, it may only have been included to 'make up the numbers' and evidence suggests that Tram/Train will be the preferred option but while the plans remain on the table Cllr Patel can hardly complain if his political opponants use them against him.



I haven't read it, but does "bus corridor" necessarily equate to "bus only" access?


The plans show two dedicnated bus-only lanes and a single lane for 'local traffic' running one way only.


To achieve that they would have to remove all street parking on cowbridge road

Re: LDP Transport Options

Jantra
Ash
Simon__200
Ash
Cllr Patel can huff and puff all he wants to.

The simple fact is that a bus corridor along Cowbridge Rd East is one of the three options for the 'north west corridor' in the Metro plans. True, it may only have been included to 'make up the numbers' and evidence suggests that Tram/Train will be the preferred option but while the plans remain on the table Cllr Patel can hardly complain if his political opponants use them against him.



I haven't read it, but does "bus corridor" necessarily equate to "bus only" access?


The plans show two dedicnated bus-only lanes and a single lane for 'local traffic' running one way only.


To achieve that they would have to remove all street parking on cowbridge road


Digon gwir. That's exactly what the plans show.

Re: LDP Transport Options

did anyone else see the subsidy amounts this week - 9.33 a journey for rail journeys in wales. Its unsustainable, There is no chance of any type of metro system. a slow build up of news stations, tweaks here and there at best.
a tram has no chance whatever.
we need some realism.
the metro plan was drawn up and gathered support and had no fundamental finance in it.

Re: LDP Transport Options

eric
did anyone else see the subsidy amounts this week - 9.33 a journey for rail journeys in wales. Its unsustainable, There is no chance of any type of metro system. a slow build up of news stations, tweaks here and there at best. a tram has no chance whatever. we need some realism. the metro plan was drawn up and gathered support and had no fundamental finance in it.


Thanks Eric, It's an interesting stat. For those who didn't see the story here's a link.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10768859/English-rail-passengers-receive-smallest-taxpayer-subsidy.html

It would be intesting to know how that subsidy breaks down. I suspect it's much larger on the rural lines than on the urban ones. In terms of the Metro the relvant stats would be the current level of bus / rail subsidies within the Metro area.

Re: LDP Transport Options

It doesn't surprise me that the subsidy is do high. We have a geographic spread the size of Wales with 3m paying passengers yet places like greater Manchester or Birmingham have to fund the same sort of pax numbers over a much smaller geographic area. This is why Cardiff needs to be allowed to grow.

Re: LDP Transport Options

our trains being fully reliant on diesel also means that they are going to be more expensive than other parts of the UK. England has more electric trains and more people.

It could also show that Wales is more car reliant. Train times in Wales are dreadfully slow. It takes about twice as long to get from Carmarthen to Cardiff by train than by car and the same can be said for some of the Valleys trains.

The privatisation of the railways has been a complete disaster.

Re: LDP Transport Options

What has privatisation got to do with it? Wales just doesn't have enough critical mass

Re: LDP Transport Options

Quoting what the rail union said. It's hardly been a success.

Re: LDP Transport Options

SP
Quoting what the rail union said. It's hardly been a success.


The rail union, the bastions of free political thinking?

Re: LDP Transport Options

Is there actually such a thing?

Re: LDP Transport Options

SP
Is there actually such a thing?
generally not, as most people or organisations have an agenda or view the world through non apolitical spectacles. We may all try and be impartial and objective, but at the end of the day the final analysis will always be swayed by our politics.

Re: LDP Transport Options

Jantra
SP
Is there actually such a thing?
generally not, as most people or organisations have an agenda or view the world through non apolitical spectacles. We may all try and be impartial and objective, but at the end of the day the final analysis will always be swayed by our politics.


'Non apolitical spectacles'? Aren't those just common-or-garden 'political spectacles' ol' buddy ol' pal?


Like these ones above maybe?





Re: LDP Transport Options

Jantard
Jantra
SP
Is there actually such a thing?
generally not, as most people or organisations have an agenda or view the world through non apolitical spectacles. We may all try and be impartial and objective, but at the end of the day the final analysis will always be swayed by our politics.


'Non apolitical spectacles'? Aren't those just common-or-garden 'political spectacles' ol' buddy ol' pal?


Like these ones above maybe?







of course they are, but I've got to throw something out there for you to latch on to haven't I.

Re: LDP Transport Options

Hang on - Wales effectively has two rail networks - the Valleys services centred on Cardiff - and the mainly rural services covering the rest. It is the rural network which requires huge subsidies as it does not and can not reach a critical mass.

But the Valleys network has a more significant mass and with growing usage effectively cross subsidises the rural network. I would suggest splitting the Wales & Borders network into two as it would help make a clearer case for Cardiff Metro.

I am not suggesting that rural network should be abandoned, only that we should better visibility of its costs.

Re: LDP Transport Options

Exactly right. I should imagine at the subsidy on lines west of Carmarthen, the HOW line and the Cambrian and Cambrian Coast lines are pretty hefty. There are good social and economic reasons for keeping those lines open but they must skew the overall numbers.

Re: LDP Transport Options

Of course you make a valid point but the welsh is a single franchise so all subsidies have to be considered as one

Re: LDP Transport Options

Jantra
Of course you make a valid point but the welsh is a single franchise so all subsidies have to be considered as one


Of course, although my reading of the figures is that they're talking about the level of subsidy of all rail rouneys in Wales - presumably including Virgin, Virgin Cross Country & First Great Western as well as ATW and excluding ATW services in the marches. I'm struggling slightly as to how they'd arrive at an accurate figure for that - but that's what the article seems to suggest.

Re: LDP Transport Options

used to do a lot of work in the rail industry and yes some of the rural routes have a slightly higher subsidy, but not as much as you would think due to frequency of service etc.
the only route that came close to making money when it was devolved was Cardiff Manchester, nothing else made money including the valley lines.
the costs of running train services really would make your eyes water.

Re: LDP Transport Options

eric
used to do a lot of work in the rail industry and yes some of the rural routes have a slightly higher subsidy, but not as much as you would think due to frequency of service etc.
the only route that came close to making money when it was devolved was Cardiff Manchester, nothing else made money including the valley lines.
the costs of running train services really would make your eyes water.


That's no surprise when train drivers, including the driver of the bay-queen street route, are on 40k per annum plus pension and other benefits

Re: LDP Transport Options

Jantra
eric
used to do a lot of work in the rail industry and yes some of the rural routes have a slightly higher subsidy, but not as much as you would think due to frequency of service etc.
the only route that came close to making money when it was devolved was Cardiff Manchester, nothing else made money including the valley lines.
the costs of running train services really would make your eyes water.


That's no surprise when train drivers, including the driver of the bay-queen street route, are on 40k per annum plus pension and other benefits


If that's what the market deems an appropriate salary for a driver, then that's what it is.

Re: LDP Transport Options

SP
Jantra
eric
used to do a lot of work in the rail industry and yes some of the rural routes have a slightly higher subsidy, but not as much as you would think due to frequency of service etc.
the only route that came close to making money when it was devolved was Cardiff Manchester, nothing else made money including the valley lines.
the costs of running train services really would make your eyes water.


That's no surprise when train drivers, including the driver of the bay-queen street route, are on 40k per annum plus pension and other benefits


If that's what the market unions deems an appropriate salary for a driver, then that's what it is.


FYP

Re: LDP Transport Options

This illustrates the sinister trend of transferring wealth by stealth and by compulsion.

Monopoly private employers and the public sector , both of which are heavily unionised, are using their power to transfer wealth to those who work there. Both in the form of pay ( the £40k pa train driver, the £250k pa vice chancellors etc etc) but also pensions.

This is, perhaps, most vividly illustrated by pensions. Someone who does not enjoy a public sector pension tries to save money for his retirement ......only to find he is forced ( that's forced) to hand over that money to pay , instead, for the retirement of people in the public sector who are no more deserving of it than he is himself. And it's HIS money. HE earn't it by his own hard work. But the result is he lives in poverty in retirement whilst the person he has been forced to hand his money to enjoys a relatively comfortable time.

It's a huge injustice, and I'm very surprised that there is not more outrage out there. Perhaps that's due to ignorance. Let's see how much public sector workers would have to save if pensions were on a level playing field, shall we........... ?

To get a retirement income of only £2,900 p.a index linked at age 60 the public sector worker would have had to have SAVED OUT OF HIS OWN INCOME about £100,000. So the train driver, who will retire on, say, £30k pa would have had to have SAVED over £1 million pounds to get that ( i.e. on top of his mortgage, kids, car bills etc). The G.P. retiring on £75,000 pa would have had to have saved over £2.5 million. .

The amounts are staggering. The reality is that neither of them could have done it.

There is pension apartheid in the UK. It's wrong.

Re: LDP Transport Options

it gets worse URBANO. whilst everyone else has to work until 65 or beyond there are some who think they should be able to retire at 60 (or even 55) and draw their pensions in full. The pension apartheid is very much a case of public sector / private monopoly versus everyone else and it really is a huge transfer of wealth without justification.

Re: LDP Transport Options

You're right, of course, on the age point.

Which makes it even worse,unjust and scandalous.

Re: LDP Transport Options

And it will be interesting to see what response, if any, we get from those on this forum who delight in giving you a hard time for daring to point out some economic home truths. I suspect a lot of them simply don't understand the economic realities of pensions.

Bit quiet so far.

Re: LDP Transport Options

Was only winding you up, Jantra.

And as for pensions, it seems that I'll be working until I'm 70 the way things are going. Gordon Brown has a lot to answer for.

Re: LDP Transport Options

SP
][bWas only winding you up, Jantra.

And as for pensions, it seems that I'll be working until I'm 70 the way things are going. Gordon Brown has a lot to answer for.
[/b]

I know you were

Re: LDP Transport Options

Strangely quiet still, isn't it?!

Re: LDP Transport Options

URBANO
Strangely quiet still, isn't it?!
very

Re: LDP Transport Options

Still nothing,Jantra. Strangely quiet aren't they?!

Re: LDP Transport Options

URBANO
Still nothing,Jantra. Strangely quiet aren't they?!


URBANAL and Jantra have nailed it. In the socialist dictatorship that is the UK only those fortunate enough to be chosen to work in the public sector will have the chance to be given a gold-plated pension.

It's not like just ANYONE can apply for a job working for a local authority, the civil service, HMRC, the armed forces, police or any other public sector job.

Oh no, just like in North Korea, these plum positions (and pensions) are only given to the seven or eight million close friends and family of the upper echelons of Cameron's cronies.

It is soooooooo unfair that only the select few who can be bothered to apply for a job in the public sector get these benefits and pensions.

It is so unfair that me, other Jants and main man Urbono are going to our bedroom to listen to Offspring and throw darts at the photo of Vince Cable we've pinned to the dartboard.

And we're not coming down till mum and dad do something about it, SO THERE!!!

Re: LDP Transport Options

What's all that supposed to mean? Do you understand it, Jantra?

Re: LDP Transport Options

Jantard

as always, your posts are colourful and descriptive but as usual a little way off the mark. Public sector pensions are paid for by current year taxation other than the LGPS schemes which are supposedly funded but still provide a final salary annuity. That means that pensions are paid by those who weren't recipients of the services provided by the pensioners. Why should I pay tax today to pay the pension of a public sector worker who worked yesterday? I want my taxes spent on services today not shoring up yesterday's pension deficit.

why should a doctor retire at 60 on 60k per annum which costs the taxpayer £1.5-£2m over the retirement? why should everyone else have to work to 65 and beyond and not afford their own pensions because they are so highly taxed to fund the bullet proof public sector pensions? The public sector is over staffed as it is with 5.5m people currently working in it - it should really be around 3m if we were to match the Germans in efficiency and productivity. That means we can't all work for the state as the state doesn't have the jobs and the state is certainly not the best at delivering what the people need.

Re: LDP Transport Options

URBANO
What's all that supposed to mean? Do you understand it, Jantra?


I would think it is too early for Jantard to be on the cooking sherry but you never know

Re: LDP Transport Options

Not so sure, Jantra. Seems the most likely explanation, as I can't understand a word of it.

To clarify.

Why should private sector taxpayers struggling to fund their pension and facing poverty in retirement be forced to hand over £2.5m ( TWO AND A HALF MILLION POUNDS) to fund a doctor's (lavish)retirement?

Why the apartheid?

Why not a level playing field?

Re: LDP Transport Options

URBANO
Not so sure, Jantra. Seems the most likely explanation, as I can't understand a word of it.

To clarify.

Why should private sector taxpayers struggling to fund their pension and facing poverty in retirement be forced to hand over £2.5m ( TWO AND A HALF MILLION POUNDS) to fund a doctor's (lavish)retirement?

Why the apartheid?

Why not a level playing field?


Let me put it like this:

Jantra derails many, many threads on this and other messageboards to expound his personal bugbears.

These are the public sector, public sector pensions, socialism, the crapness of Wales, the superiority of England, the further superiority of Germany.

And of course his favourite one, nationalism. According to Jantra and his pal Albert Einstein, nationalism is "measles of the mind."

He has gone on and on and on and on and on and on and on about these subjects on CardiffWalesMap forum for years, like the longest-playing broken record in history.

Someone put him in his place on CCMB by reminding him that Mandela and Ghandi were nationalists.

His rants are, by now, very boring, very predictable and very pointless.

This was a thread about LDP transport options, not the public sector and their pensions.

He is Wales' most boring accountant, which is actually a huge 'achievement' given some of the competition.

Re: LDP Transport Options

Still nothing,Jantra!

Re: LDP Transport Options

Still nothing....

Just to remind everyone, the questions are:

Why should private sector taxpayers struggling to fund their pension and facing poverty in retirement be forced to hand over £2.5m ( TWO AND A HALF MILLION POUNDS) to fund a doctor's (lavish)retirement?

Why the apartheid?

Why not a level playing field?

Re: LDP Transport Options

URBANO
Still nothing....

Just to remind everyone, the questions are:

Why should private sector taxpayers struggling to fund their pension and facing poverty in retirement be forced to hand over £2.5m ( TWO AND A HALF MILLION POUNDS) to fund a doctor's (lavish)retirement?

Why the apartheid?

Why not a level playing field?


What has this got to do with LDP transport solutions?

I am self employed and don't have any pension at all. I just have my home and savings. But people who have worked for the public sector knew about the generous pension arrangements when they took their jobs. They have a contract to receive these payments when they retire. Anyone can work in the public sector and get these benefits. It's not a closed shop. Recruiting doctors to work in the NHS is not a fait accompli. There is competition for their labour from all over the world.

I agree with you that some public sector workers are overpaid and that their pensions are generous. Many private sector workers are overpaid too. Consultants make fortunes by exploiting loopholes in their contracts to treat patients privately. Senior GPs make a lot of dough by exploiting the labour of junior doctors, who are paid a relative pittance.

If you don't like it, tell someone who cares and try to change the situation. Spamming this forum won't get you very far. Wales is finding it hard to recruit consultants, registrars and GPs. Maybe we need to pay them more so that our NHS doesn't completely disintegrate due to a lack of trained, experienced medics?

Re: LDP Transport Options

URBANO
Still nothing....

Just to remind everyone, the questions are:

Why should private sector taxpayers struggling to fund their pension and facing poverty in retirement be forced to hand over £2.5m ( TWO AND A HALF MILLION POUNDS) to fund a doctor's (lavish)retirement?

Why the apartheid?

Why not a level playing field?


You get that these 40K/annum train drivers aren't public sector, right? So, you get that it's pretty irrelevant to the thread title, right? You get that public sector workers don't have a "pension pot" because the government just spend their contributions, so that little argument is rather moot, right? You get the public sector employees are not a burden, but contribute to the economy just like the private or gold plated (they've been cut twice in the last 5 years so that contributions have gone up, while dividend has fallen. and will doubtless be cut again), right? You know that public sector pay trails that of the private sector pay, right? You get that these arguments and myths from Jantra about the state sector growing too big have been quashed with statistics many many times before now, and the silence is probably due to people sick to death of this stuck record, right?

By the way, he's a job advert for a Train Driver - starting salary £18,000

Re: LDP Transport Options

The voice of reason
URBANO
Not so sure, Jantra. Seems the most likely explanation, as I can't understand a word of it.

To clarify.

Why should private sector taxpayers struggling to fund their pension and facing poverty in retirement be forced to hand over £2.5m ( TWO AND A HALF MILLION POUNDS) to fund a doctor's (lavish)retirement?

Why the apartheid?

Why not a level playing field?


Let me put it like this:

Jantra derails many, many threads on this and other messageboards to expound his personal bugbears.

These are the public sector, public sector pensions, socialism, the crapness of Wales, the superiority of England, the further superiority of Germany.

And of course his favourite one, nationalism. According to Jantra and his pal Albert Einstein, nationalism is "measles of the mind."

He has gone on and on and on and on and on and on and on about these subjects on CardiffWalesMap forum for years, like the longest-playing broken record in history.

Someone put him in his place on CCMB by reminding him that Mandela and Ghandi were nationalists.

His rants are, by now, very boring, very predictable and very pointless.

This was a thread about LDP transport options, not the public sector and their pensions.

He is Wales' most boring accountant, which is actually a huge 'achievement' given some of the competition.


Mandela of South Africa with its 13 nations and Ghandi of India with its 100+ nations...you mean those nationalists....

Re: LDP Transport Options

Simon__200
URBANO
Still nothing....

Just to remind everyone, the questions are:

Why should private sector taxpayers struggling to fund their pension and facing poverty in retirement be forced to hand over £2.5m ( TWO AND A HALF MILLION POUNDS) to fund a doctor's (lavish)retirement?

Why the apartheid?

Why not a level playing field?


You get that these 40K/annum train drivers aren't public sector, right? So, you get that it's pretty irrelevant to the thread title, right? You get that public sector workers don't have a "pension pot" because the government just spend their contributions, so that little argument is rather moot, right? You get the public sector employees are not a burden, but contribute to the economy just like the private or gold plated (they've been cut twice in the last 5 years so that contributions have gone up, while dividend has fallen. and will doubtless be cut again), right? You know that public sector pay trails that of the private sector pay, right? You get that these arguments and myths from Jantra about the state sector growing too big have been quashed with statistics many many times before now, and the silence is probably due to people sick to death of this stuck record, right?

By the way, he's a job advert for a Train Driver - starting salary £18,000


lets debunk a few of your claims

the train drivers are working for a monopoly, we have no choice.

I understand the government 'spends' as you call it. What the government actually does it not tax in the first place. If a salary is £20k per annum before tax and requires a £4k pension contribution to meet the expected government outlay in retirement you would think the government would tax the private sector £24k. Well it doesn't. The government only needs the net of tax amount of say £16k because the public sector does not pay tax to itself. So the true cost of pensions is picked up by those who don't use the service i.e. later generations. That is entirely inequitable.

the only part of the public sector that contribute to the economy are the bank of England (via Seigniorage) and the Royal mint. The rest of the public sector merely spends wealth what has already been created by the private sector and taxed accordingly. Economically, the public sector is a cost to the nation.

average public sector pay is higher than average private sector pay. thats before we factor in the public sector have more holidays, more sick days and better pension provision.

average train drivers at ATW are on £40k per annum.

please show these stats you refer to.

Re: LDP Transport Options

Jantra
The voice of reason
URBANO
Not so sure, Jantra. Seems the most likely explanation, as I can't understand a word of it.

To clarify.

Why should private sector taxpayers struggling to fund their pension and facing poverty in retirement be forced to hand over £2.5m ( TWO AND A HALF MILLION POUNDS) to fund a doctor's (lavish)retirement?

Why the apartheid?

Why not a level playing field?


Let me put it like this:

Jantra derails many, many threads on this and other messageboards to expound his personal bugbears.

These are the public sector, public sector pensions, socialism, the crapness of Wales, the superiority of England, the further superiority of Germany.

And of course his favourite one, nationalism. According to Jantra and his pal Albert Einstein, nationalism is "measles of the mind."

He has gone on and on and on and on and on and on and on about these subjects on CardiffWalesMap forum for years, like the longest-playing broken record in history.

Someone put him in his place on CCMB by reminding him that Mandela and Ghandi were nationalists.

His rants are, by now, very boring, very predictable and very pointless.

This was a thread about LDP transport options, not the public sector and their pensions.

He is Wales' most boring accountant, which is actually a huge 'achievement' given some of the competition.


Mandela of South Africa with its 13 nations and Ghandi of India with its 100+ nations...you mean those nationalists....


Yes Gandhi the Indian nationalist and Mandela the South African nationalist. They wanted to have independent nations with majority rule.

Your sophistry and dissembling are so predictable and almost as boring as your trolling. Poor you, it must be hell to be inside that head. Like a chimp rattling the bars in a deserted zoo with no-one to fling your faeces at other than the phantasmic shadows of the erstwhile zookeepers and disillusioned visitors.

I've updated Cervantes with that metaphor. Just waiting for URBONOBO to turn up and support his simian mate. No more tilting at windmills for you two!

Just turd tossing for Dim Chimpsky.

Re: LDP Transport Options

The voice of reason
Jantra
The voice of reason
URBANO
Not so sure, Jantra. Seems the most likely explanation, as I can't understand a word of it.

To clarify.

Why should private sector taxpayers struggling to fund their pension and facing poverty in retirement be forced to hand over £2.5m ( TWO AND A HALF MILLION POUNDS) to fund a doctor's (lavish)retirement?

Why the apartheid?

Why not a level playing field?


Let me put it like this:

Jantra derails many, many threads on this and other messageboards to expound his personal bugbears.

These are the public sector, public sector pensions, socialism, the crapness of Wales, the superiority of England, the further superiority of Germany.

And of course his favourite one, nationalism. According to Jantra and his pal Albert Einstein, nationalism is "measles of the mind."

He has gone on and on and on and on and on and on and on about these subjects on CardiffWalesMap forum for years, like the longest-playing broken record in history.

Someone put him in his place on CCMB by reminding him that Mandela and Ghandi were nationalists.

His rants are, by now, very boring, very predictable and very pointless.

This was a thread about LDP transport options, not the public sector and their pensions.

He is Wales' most boring accountant, which is actually a huge 'achievement' given some of the competition.


Mandela of South Africa with its 13 nations and Ghandi of India with its 100+ nations...you mean those nationalists....


Yes Gandhi the Indian nationalist and Mandela the South African nationalist. They wanted to have independent nations with majority rule.

Your sophistry and dissembling are so predictable and almost as boring as your trolling. Poor you, it must be hell to be inside that head. Like a chimp rattling the bars in a deserted zoo with no-one to fling your faeces at other than the phantasmic shadows of the erstwhile zookeepers and disillusioned visitors.

I've updated Cervantes with that metaphor. Just waiting fot URBONOBO to turn up and support his simian mate. No more tilting at windmills for you two!

Just turd tossing for Dim Chimpsky.



I think you misunderstand what a nation is

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