@voice of reason

You stated earlier that you were an expert and you then stated that experts can be also be right or wrong. Doesn't it follow that as an expert that you too could be wrong on this issue?

The whole LDP process is tainted and as I expected you have come up with a couple of essays to appease your paymasters in the Labour Party. I am not left or right wing, those are terms which aren't useful, in my view.

I talked about landowners and developers. Who owns Waterhall? It's Other Windsor, a cousin of the Queen. He and his family will make hundreds of millions of pounds from this land sale.

For you to say that just because one site in the LDP is under investigation for gigantic fraud that it doesn't undermine the integrity or validity of the whole plan is laughable.

The way you shill for Labour isn't laughable though. Rambling on about equality and externalities is an attempt to blind others with your inexact 'science'. You are an economist who rubbished the idea of a recession and related housing bubble. Labour increased inequality more than any government in a century, by the way.

London and Cambridge are successful for more reasons that you outlined, Cambo Dai/London David. I note that you never called yourself Ponty Dewi. I wonder why?

Land in the UK is limited and we need to improve public transport before any housing development, whether it be brown or green field. Cardiff is too crowded and the road and hospital infrastructure could not cope with large increases in population.

I truly believe that you are under orders from Carl Sergeant to push these unsustainable housing developments on forums such as these. Some FOIs will be going in.

Happy holiday.

By protecting the community now it endangers the future of that community. Everything grows, from populations to weeds, that's life. By ensuring that homes are not built means we disperse people away from the places that they want to live. Communities grow, adapt, change but should be rooted in a common past and a shared future. By denying developments like this and countless others there is a danger that people within communities will become isolated, old and selfish. That's not what life is about, that's not what communities are about and it's certainly not what society should aim to become.

@voice of reason

Your posts create an image of a rather odious individual. You remind me of the kid who'd take his football home if he didn't get to play as striker. By all means disagree with cambo's posts but why criticise his profession? Yes it is an inexact science (the uk alone has 63m variables) but he at least attempts to bring rational thought and argument to the debate rather than emotional bluster and party rhetoric.

Another thing, why is it ok for you to regurgitate the innovative radicalises baloney ad infinitum but then you criticise others if you think they adhere to a particular party doctrine. You're a hypocrite. Wind your neck in and allow others to express their own opinions without your thinly veiled threats. You come across as a bit of a knob in all honesty

Ha ha! Spot on.

In my final post on this issue I'll tackle the claims 1 by 1.

1) Inequality rising by more under Labour than under any government for 100 years.

To paraphrase your overuse of capitalised words for emphasis. FACTUALLY WRONG. Using any measure of inequality you like - Gini coefficient, 90/10 ratio, mean-log deviation etc, inequality was broadly unchanged between 1997 and 2010. It was in the 1980s that inequality in the UK rocketed - just as in America. In the 1990s and 2000s, inequality rose substantially more in Scandanvia, Germany, even France - albeit from a much lower base. Look at any book on this topic to see that - from official DWP figures, OECD figures, EU Commission figures, anti-poverty charities, free-market think tanks etc.

2) Cricism of economics as an inexact science

Well done. You've grasped the fact that economics is just a set of tools to help guide thinking, not a crystal ball offering certain foresight. I never claimed it was. I have admitted I was wrong on the recession. But then again so were most other people. Its very easy to say there will be a crash. What is hard is to pinpoint when it will happen. In the UK, in previous recessions, the crash has been precipitated by a notable build up of inflationary pressures that just wasn't there in 2007. That's because it was a different kind of recession driven by a banking crisis. Those who are now feted for "predicting the crash when others didn't" had been predicting it was just around the corner for years. I'll make a call now - we'll have a recession in future! House prices will, at some point crash again... fete me when it turns out to be true (at some date in the future!).

3) Success in London and Cambridge

Prey tell. What are the factors that explain their economic success? I agree there's a more complex story to tell, particularly for London. But the reversal of the flight of activity out of cities to suburbs in the 90s is a global phenomenon, suggesting agglomeration is a key factor. And the timing of London's rebound in the late 1980s corresponds to financial deregulation, strongly suggesting that is a key factor too. London is certainly not successful because of its liveability - anyone commuting on the tube or train, or struggling to get on the housing market will tell you that! Again - look for materiality. I wasn't trying to offer a full thesis for why Cambridge or London are successful. I was just saying the most obvious candidates were not what you suggested, and if anything, would favour further development (not less of it) in these cities.

4) On the LDP system as a whole being corrupt

Where is your evidence for this? Why wouldn't that also be the case on a broader "regional approach"? How do you explain the consistent failure to build enough homes in this country if the whole system is set up so that corrupt landowners, developers, politicians and civil servants collude to build? Why aren't we seeing proposals for thousands of new homes in Monmouthshire, where property values are even higher? What about all the prosperous towns in the S. East of England that strangle development? Surely there'd be even greater scope for corruption there. Or is corruption something that only affects Wales, indeed, Cardiff?

As I said, there seem to be specific cases that need investigation. But the evidence is that we have too little rather than too much building in this country - which suggests the mechanism you argue for isn't that widespread.

5) On politics.

You clearly thrive on the intrigue and backstabbing nature of politics. I don't and can simply assure you I take no part in party politics in Wales, or the UK for that matter.

6) On everything else.

I take heart from the fact that you haven't really tackled any of my arguments about planning, inequality, economics, instead resorting to your usual bluster and threats. It means even if we have to agree to disagree - I know I'll have made the stronger arguments.

True. But I think the additional 8,000 homes or so being planned would significantly bolster the business case for the rail line. Llantrisant / Talbot Green are already kind of served by Pontyclun so on their own probably aren't enough to justify a new rail line.

That's rich coming from Wales' least-loved accountant and most-despised poster on a number of message boards. "Why criticise his profession?" When did I do that? I believe that this man, who has just been appointed to a taxpayer funded role by a Labour minister, is incredibly biased and is following his bosses' agenda.

He is a paid-up Labour Party supporter. Why don't you tell him what you think of the Labour Party?

You criticise a whole sector of professions. The public sector. Just because I disagree with this probably fraudulent and certainly unsustainable LDP doesn't link me to any political party. All of the parties in Cardiff oppose this LDP apart from your hated Labour.

As for regurgitating stuff, believe me, it's all my own work.

You have sunk to name calling and, therefore, lost the debate. I am still chuckling about you calling me a knob.

How infantile.

How Damian.

How Feedback

How very Jantra.



And as for winding my neck in, you should do that, Porky, but I suppose your chins would get in the way. I would eat you for breakfast if you weren't so damned fattening.

That's how to insult someone knobHEAD.

Okay chum


P?

What makes you think that's insulting, you're hardly a wordsmith demonstrating rapier wit and devastating repartee. Have another go if you must, I'm sure you'll strike a nerve eventually, then again, maybe not.

Your personal insults to other posters are completely out of order "voice of reason". Just because people don't agree with your opinion is not ever a reason to stoop as low as you have been. Debate is welcome but your style of bullying is not.

I have never been a member of Labour or any other political party, nor donated to one. Fact.

You do not know my motivations. You do not know my politics. You do not know me, despite thinking that you do. Anyone who does know me knows that I don't follow any one party's line - I'll support policies from whoever, and criticise policies from whoever - based on those policies. That's the kind of person who goes into public economics. If you were the kind of person who was tribal, my job would quickly become very taxing - because there is no room for favouritism. Is it so far out of your own way of thinking that you can't grasp that some people don't base their decisions on tribal loyalties but instead on policy issues?

My last post was the final one on the LDP. This is the last one on myself. I've been goaded into the defence of myself above - but I will be goaded no further.

Goodbye.

Err Jantra called me a "Knob". So I responded in kind.

Correct, because that's what your posts suggest

Well if you dish it out, you must be able to take it.

By the looks of you, you dish a lot out and then take it all for yourself.

You have lowered the tone of the debate.

Luckily, hardly anyone really cares about your opinions.

There is a Wales-wide anti LDP movement growing with thousands of supporters.

Maybe you should instigate a pro-LDP group.

I bet that very few people would show even the slightest interest.

you are inferring that it bothers me. it doesn't, it is all water off a ducks back. maybe you get wound up by the musings of strangers on the wunderweb, but please appreciate that I do not. fire away your best salvo, if its amusing you'll find me laughing along, if its akin to what you have written thus far, I'll be taken to new uncharted levels of tedium.


the thing is you really believe this. have a read of this thread and appreciate the common denominator in all of this.


good, because people should be free to form their own opinions and no one should try and force their opinions on to others. perhaps you might take that on board


thousands from a population of millions. a real mass movement then.


why, the LDP has been accepted and is going ahead. Why support something that is a fait accompli? you're an odd fellow, you're asking me to fight battles that have already been won.


I bet more people are interested in x-factor than your crusade. that doesn't make it a just cause though.

I'm bored now, you've served your purpose for a few days, you've not really grasped the idea of internet debate or humour. perhaps you should try a different thread like 'what are you having for dinner'. you might find that more applicable to your writing style.