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http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cardiff-central-square-key-business-7098403
The majority of this has been discussed elsewhere on here I think (purchasing of Marland House, St.David's House, the masterplan for the whole scheme etc.), but the bit relevant to this specific thread at the bottom of the article says
"This £30m development is due to be considered by the council’s planning committee this month and if approved, could be completed by next spring."
A couple of things stand out for me, firstly hasn't the application been in for a little while ? I might be wrong though.
Secondly, if it was considered this month and they are going to start it in June as planned that it's going to go up fairly quickly considering it's 130,000 square foot of space.
Could it really be ready by Spring 2015 ?
Its possible to build that quickly - but unusual. It could be that they have some tenants lined up who need the space quickly and they're going to rush to do this. Or it could be that the building will be externally finished by Spring 2015 but with internal fitting out taking place over the summer.
The planning meeting is tomorrow, and the Schedule of planning applications document can be downloaded from here, by click "Planning", then click "14 May 2014", and "Schedule of Planning Applications (21.56M)".
The application reference is 14/385/DCI, and the planning officer recommends planning permission be granted, but with 29 conditions!
Based on other developments in Cardiff, I would be very surprised if the first digger had arrived by June 2015 let alone the building finished.
Maybe they have already completed a number of the assessments and reports mentioned in the conditions, in advance of planning being granted, but that would be a big financial gamble.
There are 29 conditions but they're all sensible - which one's would you remove? The only one that seems a bit OTT is agreeing public art before construction starts.
If approved I don't see why it can't start pretty soon - most of the conditions are box ticking exercises.
I'm not suggesting any of them should be removed, or are not sensible.
Just in my experience the local planning authority can take weeks rather than days to review and approve a specific assessment/plan/report.
So with a rudimentary multiplication of 29 I would be surprised if development was to start next month.
I do hope it happens at that fast a pace though, set the example for other developments to follow.
Probably to help "speed things up". The granting of planning application may help with procurement of funding or finance. So allowing them to get planning permission before all the technical details are finalised may free up the resources to sort those details out. And it may mean they can progress on other bits of the process.
Sometimes Jantra, you do go out of your way to see the worst possible interpretation of public sector decisions. If it had been the other way round, and someone was complaining about the delays in getting planning permission because the Council wanted to get all these "operational" issues sorted, you'd be saying they should be more flexible and monitor and impose conditions after granting permission.
Always political isn't it?
No doubt you'll be telling us how the Tories are turning the process around since they came into power?
I think we can all agree that often planning can take longer than one would like, but that is largely dictated by Central Government - 8 week targets for gerenal applications, 13 for larger. Sounds like an age, but then look at the number of Officer's you've got against the number of applications being submitted.
Besides, this application would have been considered against the planning matters - whether it would be acceptable in principle, what the impacts on the site and area would be etc. I'd say that piling details are fairly minor when considering the greater picture and a construction/structural matter rather than planning matter. There's going to be a whole Building Regulations process to go through too before and during works.
I can't imagine that the developer is going to invest even more money in all the structural reports/tests etc before they are certain that planning permission will be granted. Realistically this could go either way at Committee, where the Councillors, not professionals get the final say. Although I'd assume it will be granted. Assumptions however don't mean formal permission.
The presumption in favour of sustainable development is an overused term by developers, taken from Central government documents, who want approval for whatever they/their client wants with little control. Don't be fooled -the workings/processes of most councils - and that includes London - are the same as those in Wales.
This is the last post on this matter as it's completely off topic.
I can promise that the requirements at validation stage which you talk about are the same across the country, as is the arguably ridiculous need to need permission to change a window if you live in a flat or development without permitted development rights. Perhaps the Tories should have relaxed those areas of development control. As for taking 7 months for the submission of the tick box documents, I agree that they would often seem unnecessary. But again, it is a national requirement, set by central government and is the same everywhere. The fact that it's taken 7 months sounds like you too have probably been slow in providing what they've asked for or stubborn, getting you nowhere. If not, Appeal!
I'm sure the Cardiff planners couldn't give one about your minor works either, relative to the larger developments and many other applications received, but are required by the government to assess the proposal and grant permission, by reason of the legislation.
If such checks weren't in place then more things like this http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cardiff-man-vows-fight-keep-1855134 would happen.
I don't know the nature of your house, Jantra, but things like this are used for a reason not just for shits and giggles.
Let's end this conversation about the glorious French doors Jantra wishes to install and get back to the topic.
As someone who regularly submits planning applications in both England & Wales I can say from my experience there is no difference between local authorities in England and Wales. both systems are the same bureaucratic process.
Also - Detailed structural designs for piling are very expensive and rely on a lot of information gathering (core samples etc.) The design is sometimes still being worked on during the start of construction. Planning applications are often submitted without the full information to ensure it will be approved and any issues sorted prior to starting. Conditions like this are normal and will be discharged as part of the process.
My house is 17 year sold on a brownfield site. Hardly conservation or of special national interest
The planning application was approved, so a start on this in a couple of weeks then ?😁
I'm confused here. Why does One Capital Square require french doors? It seems a very odd feature for a speculative office development.
Cardiff International Capital Quarter innit. Probably got Venetian blinds an'all
Work to start very shortly according to the video in this article http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/watch-businessman-behind-cardiffs-ambitious-7260946
quite good news too that they are in talks with 3 different employers for 2 Capital Square.
Yup that is all quite promising. Seems like this is the new "on the go" development. With Capital Quarter also doing not too badly either.
On the other hand, the Bay seems to have slowed right down. Not much else happening in Roath Basin. Cardiff Waterside looking to have stalled now the BBC has decided to go to the city centre (which really is understandable from a staff point of view). And nothing whatsover happening in the old Butetown area suggesting the council's plans for the Coal Exchange will have to be pretty special to drive investment in that area.
In terms of the 100,000 square foot occupier, who could it be?
Well one is Legal and General obviously. The other is Hugh James. But would be much better if it were one of the 'inward investors' looking to move some functions from London. And here the article itself says: PwC, HSBC and Barclays are considering the city. And previous articles have said an inward investor is looking to bring perhaps 1000 jobs to the city - which would equate to, you've guessed it, about 100,000 square feet.
It is very promising isn't it ?
So :
- Barclays, HSBC and PwC are potentially looking for space on
top of the usual suspects like L&G and the various legal entities
- Planning permission for number 2 is being talked about
already (in relation to one of the above hopefully)
- Hopefully we get a start date on number 1 on July 14th as mentioned
I agree about the Bay, I'm really curious about what Aviva and Igloo will do next. That GloWorks building is designed to be one of a few and it's going to look quite lonely for a few years unless Igloo and the Welsh Assembly fancy taking some risk with more speculative space. There's meant to be some residential at Porth Teigr as well but nothing has been mentioned for years.
As for Cardiff Waterside, Number 3 has been filling up quite well so would they be prepared to build speculatively when most potential occupiers would be drawn to the enterprise zone city centre developments ? That Number 1 and Number 2 plot at Assembly Square doesn't look like being built any time soon but the more worrying part of their development is Pierhead Street. Maybe a change of use would be on the cards there ? Maybe residential ?
I'm increasingly thinking the pierhead street site might be used for the Arena/Conference centre that Cardiff Council want to build - if that still goes ahead - and if its big enough (I've looked, and it might be a bit tight).
Why? Because it looks like they've lost the Callaghan Square site with the WG building more offices on the south side of the square. Phase I could commence relatively shortly, although that could then lead to a bit of a glut on the market (given Capital Square 1, Capital Square 2, Capital Quarter 1 and Capital Quarter 2 - too many Capitals!) unless we do get a couple of Barclays, HSCB or PwC to committ to the city.
And the more I think about it, it could actually work fairly decently if they get public transport to the bay working correctly. In the short term they could put on a more frequent and longer train service on event nights. Together with the Bay Car this would provide quite a lot of capacity. You've also got large car parks at Cardiff Waterside and at Atlantic Wharf (which remains under-utilised). And in the medium-to-longer term you've got the proposed tram-train (which such a scheme might help facilitate).
Having the conference centre near the bay would surely give a good impression of the city - at least in the summer. There would be quite a lot of restaurants nearby (Mermaid Quay) And it would provide a boost to getting more hotels down the bay. I recall 2 hotels were planned as part of the Igloo scheme but its gone quiet - this could give them some leisure and conference customers too. And could see a hotel in the old Merchant Place scheme too.
The entrance for the Arena would have to be as far as possible from Celestia - close to the car park pedestrian entrance, say. And I'd probably make the Pierhead Street and Bute Place roads narrower to accomodate a bit extra space for the building, and to allow wider pavements. But it looks like a possible plan to me.
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