A Mrs Claudia Tucker (antiques) has contacted me through my email saying she have various trophies connected to an Austin Ulster reg VE4492 which was once raced by a mister TB Rabin between 1929 and 1935 Now I don't know this woman or how she got my email so I wont click on any of the attachments she has sent in case of a spam virus of some sort, I might be wrong and she might be a legit antiques dealer with some original memento's connected to this car and driver!! can anyone shed some light on this one Geoff.

Location: sunnyish suffolk coast

Rabin was the first or second owner of VE.
It was made in 1930.
It is currently owned by James Anderson.

http://www.austinharris.co.uk/search/Tam%20Raban?f[0]=taxonomy_vocabulary_8%3A483

http://pub25.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=2099944454&frmid=5&msgid=877793&cmd=show

I have a problem this end, I'v tried sending James Anderson three emails telling him of the trophies etc that his car won all those years ago along with the dealers telephone number so he can contact them but for some reason they wont send!Can somebody contact him please giving him my email geoffrogers@fsmail.net so he can contact me before the dealer sells them on, thanks Geoff.

Location: sunnyish suffolk coast

He is away in Brittany till the 11th

Location: oz

Hi Geoff, Russell was quite right, I was away in Brittany and am now back ! Obviously, I'd be very interested in hearing more about anything associated with my car especially memorabilia of this nature. I've found the whole area of the car's past history a difficult one to delve into because I understand that Tam's son was killed in a motor car accident, as far as I'm aware, unrelated to the Ulster but the car was laid up/stored for many years partly because of this. This is one of the reasons the car is so original and it is quite exciting to now know that it was raced successfully by Tam Rabin. I have photos of it at Brooklands and at the Lewes Speed Trials and there are definitely two different drivers who I assume are Leslie Seyd,the first owner and Tam Rabin the second owner but no other paperwork or evidence to confirm this again until now ! How exciting, I'd appreciate further information. Regards James

For interested viewers, I have =taxonomy_vocabulary_3%3A15">two photos of this car in period racing at Brooklands, one for each of the owners that James mentions.

As for replicas the "Ulster" in my garage was built as an accurate replica of VE, with lots of care taken to get it right, (with the added bonus of having the original car in the same garage to measure from.)

Location: United Kingdom

An original replica of VE!

Location: United Kingdom

Location: sunnyish suffolk coast

Hi again Geoff, Sent you another email at about 11.30am as I didn't receive your's from last night. It contains my phone numbers that I'm a bit reluctant to share with the world-wide-web ! But if needs must, will do as I think this is a such an important issue.

I appreciate that there are other matters in life to attend to but as you said in an earlier email, the cups may be moved on (or may have already!). It's as much their source that fascinates me as the cups themselves and it is a bit sad that they got separated from the car that you may or may not know is currently exhibited at Brooklands Museum (in the Clubhouse). For anyone who hasn't been to Brooklands it's certainly a full days visit as there's so much to see, what with its Aircraft/Vickers/BAC connection with a real Concorde, Wellington Bomber and various other Vickers aircraft, motorcycles, racing cars/simulators, 4-D Cinema and other film-shows, even a new Bus Museum and obviously the site itself, the Worlds first Racing Circuit with its various original buildings and associated wonderful atmosphere.

Hope we can communicate directly soon before the cups drift away again into relative oblivion ! James

Location: Ferring, West Sussex

Hi yet again Geoff, in view of pressing nature of this issue, despite what I've said in my previous post, I'm going to provide you with my mobile phone number : 07475272760. Cheers James

Location: Ferring, West Sussex

James if you google Claudia Tucker Antiques, then you get the place below in the US may be worth emailing her if Geoff does not come back to you.

https://www.facebook.com/Now-and-Then-Shoppe-107311059339141/

Location: Dorset

Thanks for the information Douglas although I've got nowhere with it ! Sadly it may be something to do with my lack of computer skills but I've searched using the details you suggested and all I've come up with is a Now and Then Shoppe in Fort Smith, Arkansas and when I phoned them they said that they've never heard of Claudia Tucker and/or such cups, so as intimated, I'm really getting nowhere without direct help from Geoff.

At least he should have a reply email address for the right shop as Claudia contacted him. However, thanks for your interest and support, if you've any further suggestions I'd appreciate them as you can understand, it's fairly frustrating my end ! It will be intersting if nothing else to find out how such memorobilia strayed so far from these shores where they really belong. James

Hi sorry that was a dead end, but if they do exist I would put a watch on eBay as they will probably end up there.

Location: Dorset

I can categorically assure you that James Anderson is not an Englishman Charles

I'm getting a bit confused here now! James Anderson has come back on here with a different spelling of his surname and the personal Email I got from him a few hours ago with his mobile number is different from the one he put on this thread, I don't want to give the wrong person the details, as Iv'e already been contacted by someone else who's interested in the trophies, so where do I go from here. will contact the antiques dealer in the morning to tell her to hang on to them and then get back on here around 5 oclock when I get home to see the response Geoff

Location: sunnyish suffolk coast

Geoff, some of you guys stay up late ! I'd be grateful if we could keep this issue as simple as possible, with some reluctance, I posted my personal mobile number on the Forum and I will email you personally with my other contact details. By the way, you might note the time of this 'post' and its around 2:30am ! That's because I woke up with a stinking headache and while I was waiting for painkillers to kick-in, I thought I'd look at the Forum again ! I am definitely James Anderson current owner of Supercharged Ulster VE4492 and as I think I've said before the rightful place for the cups are alongside the car.

Is it only me who smells a fish in this ?

It has ALL the ingredients of a scam.

Obviously it could be all a scam but it's not that famous a car in the grand scheme of things and the early history of it is not that well known. The car was essentially lost for over 30 years and there definite evidence that Tam Rabin was the 2nd owner and raced the car so it's not surprising that he was successful resulting in these cups. When re-discovered in the 1960s VE4492 went through at least one auction house and that's probably when the cups associated with the car got separated maybe to maximise income. However, I would have thought that the cups would've been sold/auctioned in the UK where there would have been most interest and not the US, if that's indeed where they are ! Perhaps who inherited or purchased them emigrated, who'll know until someone can get to the bottom of this mystery.

I just wish that the most constructive input on the subject from Geoff Rogers emerged a bit earlier in the day than 11:00pm after I've gone to bed and can't do anything about it and another day is lost ! I have now sent him several emails and he now has all my phone numbers and correct email address and I am willing to take a chance on the fact that it may be a scam and keep everyone informed as I repeatedly say, the cups really belong with the car. James

Location: Ferring, West Sussex

I really hope this works out, James. Such a rare opportunity!

Location: Leics

All sorted now guys, James will probably come back on here and tell us all the news when he's ready, thanks Geoff.

Location: sunnyish suffolk coast

James - Good luck with your search. No doubt you know by now of many of the Brooklands events in which Syed and Raban (note spelling) competed, including Lands End, London-Scotland, Exeter etc Trials, so presumably the Awards & Trophies are from those efforts. But a question - why do the Brooklands people keep insisting they're the World's first racing circuit, when surely they're aware that the Aspendale circuit near Melbourne (Australia) held their first meeting a year before the UK track? (Like Brooklands, they ceased operations at the start of WW2. At least Brooklands has a small part of the circuit remaining, the Oz one is covered by suburban houses). Cheers, Bill in Oz

Hi again all A7 brethren, as Geoff has already pointed out, it has all finally worked out despite all the glitches including my Email service packing up at a critical moment (meaning I couldn't see the photos of the cups etc). I think Claudia, who incidentally seems to be one of the nicest Antiques dealers you could encounter, took quite a big gamble when she bought them at auction and it was only her subsequent research that revealed their true significance. I'm due to pick them up next week along with others that Tam Raban won I think in a 3-wheel Morgan in 1929 prior to purchasing the Ulster (obv. the better car !) I will try to post photos of the cups in due course and take this opportunity offer my sincere thanks firstly to Geoff for his tenacity to find the right person to buy them and to all others on the Forum for their support and encouragement. I've no idea at this stage what I'm going to do with them, apart from admire, cherish and polish them but obviously now can't wait to get my hands on them. Thanks once again Geoff, at the very least I owe you a beer or two ! Thanks also to those who set the Forum up in the first place as without it, things like this probably just wouldn't happen. Regards James

We all like a story with a happy ending! Look forward to seeing the photos of the trophies in due course.

Well done, at least they are going to the right place, would be interested in seeing photos in due course.

Location: Dorset

Good story. Sounds like you are going to be doing some research on the Morgan Register...

....Although I can't help wondering who on earth would try to contact Geoff and, if I'm being charitable, act as an "alternative" James Anderson? There are some odd people in the world. It's more like the behaviour you'd expect from Monty Burns in the Simpsons than that of an enthusiast.

Charles

Well today was quite significant. Cups reunited with car at last but only briefly ! I'll have to work out some secure way of displaying them, first thoughts are of a glass/transparent plastic case on a plinth on a wooden pole securely screwed to the elevated platform that the car is displayed on. Will also have to work out labourious means of loading photos before you can see them, briefly remembered how to do this about 3 months ago but can't seem to log on to Photobucket etc. Staff at Brooklands were justifiably quite excited by whole affair and Claudia Tucker generously included Vols I-III of Bill Boddie's Books on Brooklands in the deal ! Photos hopefully will follow in due course or I'll email them to someone more clever than me who can. James

Here are the photos from James:

Six of the best JAMES.

You lucky boy.

I bet you feel like Christmas has come early.

Well chuffed for you, tony

Location: Leics

Thanks for your help Ruiaridh in displaying the photos. Thanks again to Geoff Rogers for his persistence in contacting me and the fantastic Claudia Tucker (who was as charming to meet as she was on the phone)and her husband Garth who spent ages cleaning the cups. A very good day apart from the weather ! James

Location: Very Windy Ferring West Sussex

Blooming marvellous.

Well done

Lovely. Be nice if you used one to drink beer out of... perhaps hung in your local?

James great photos thanks, is the cars reg not on the cups? That must have taken some digging to relate back to your car. Is the car on display a Brooklands not been there yet, it would appear a trip in in order.

Location: Dorset

James - Congrats that the trophies are finally secured. How on top of the world you must now feel and how fitting that they'll be on display with the car. Cheers, Bill in Oz

And so quickly and well resolved, through a slightly convoluted exchange- well done Geoff Rogers for persevering and Dr. James Anderson for recovering a vital part of the cars history.

Also thanks to Austin and Henry Harris for the fascinating confirmation of the history (of the car that was once in the family stable!)

Tony.

It wasn't owned by us (dad!), it was looked after by dad when a previous owner had it, (at the same time as the replica of it was built up.

As far as I know they have only been seen together in public once, so far.

Location: United Kingdom

Wow! Amazing - what a great story!

Thanks once again to everyone for their kind comments, I'm still recovering from the pleasant mental whirlwind of it all. In reply to individual issues, starting from the last, Austin Harris's Dad along with Colin Humphries were custodian's of the car for I'm not sure how long while they cosmetically restored it (not sure who actually bought the car but don't think it was an Austin 7 enthusiast, hence am not really counting them as a genuine owner (although Colin Humphries name appears on the old V5). There's no reference to VE4492 on the cups, only the owner and the event. But that's enough for me and anyone willing to spend some time with the excellent records of the time.

In reply to Bill's statement regarding the validity of Brooklands being the First Motor Circuit in the World. I'm not sure how complex or expensive Bill's Aspendale Circuit near Melbourne (Australia) was but Brooklands was certainly the centre of the Worlds' Racing Universe at the time and bankrupted the builder (Mr HF Locke King) possibly as a result of the complex concrete banking alone. The site still remains amazingingly atmospheric but maybe to some, a folly to the Gods of Motor Racing. I can't imagine that such a track would be permitted in this day and age of health and safety let alone noise pollution. To anyone remotely interested in Motor/Motorcycle Racing, British Aircraft, even Barbara Cartland (and the first band of women racing drivers), Count Zborowski and 'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang' (for the kids) and any number of other reasons (see previous entry), Brooklands Museum is a must for the day as it's got a good restaraunt. As the volunteer at the entrance stated 'when I first came, I thought here we go another dead museum...far from it, it's alive and constantly evolving' especially on event days but words cannot fully describe it ! James

Location: Still very windy and wet, Ferring, West Sussex

James - I'm well aware of the Brooklands story and wouldn't dare compare it's facilities, it's machinery over the years,it's personalities, it's epic races, it's atmosphere etc, with Aspendale. Admittedly the latter was initially a circuit within a horse racecourse (a la Aintree, Warwick Farm etc in later years), and it wasn't until the early Twenties that it sported a banked track like Brooklands, but the fact remains that Aspendale came first. So I question why Brooklands still insists they were the World's first motor racing circuit - to me that is false advertising, and history shouldn't be distorted. (As an aside, Austin Sevens weren't all that far behind Brooklands (Waite, an Aussie, August 1923) in competing either, as a factory Sports Seven took part at Aspendale less than 10 months later). The latter Seven also took part in a World Record attempt in August 1924, again at Aspendale). Rant over. Cheers, Bill in Oz

Bill I'm fairly certain they only claim it to be the first 'purpose built' motor course, there being many motor races on public roads, horse racing tracks, and private driveways years before even Aspendale. Trying to make some sense of why they may say this. Aspendale, although also purpose built for motor racing, was a crushed gravel track a form we would recognise as a dirt or gravel track or speedway perhaps. Whereas Brooklands being paved is the first example of what we would now recognise as a racing track? Maybe thats grasping at straws and they should just say the first purpose built paved motor course.

Either way both are massively important and should be missed and we are lucky that at least some of Brooklands remains.

On topic this is a brilliant story and so pleased to see the trophies reunited with the car. Well done to all involved in making it happen. And anyone who hasn't been to Brooklands should definitely go. The VSCC driving tests held there in the new year is always a good day out (so long as you wrap up warm).

Location: New Forest

Timothy and John. Just to clear up a misunderstanding I may have caused - when I said that it wasn't until the early Twenties that Aspendale was banked like Brooklands, I should have written that it's banking was then concrete like Brooklands. Aspendale had consisted of two long straights with banking at either end right from the outset. The fact that it was originally gravel surely doesn't preclude it's claim to be the first. The first meeting there was on 29 January 1906, Brooklands 17 June 1907. Aspendale continued until 1940 and was closed not because of WW2, but due to safety concerns, so it had a longer life than Brooklands. Unless changed very recently, I'd question that the latter doesn't still claim to be the first. The title of "the World's first paved circuit" would be more apt. It may be of interest that one of the consultants Locke King used to ascertain safe track width , degree of banking etc, was Selwyn Edge, an Australian. I'd suggest we can guess from where Edge got his expertise, even if only by correspondence!. Cheers, Bill in Oz

Hi Bill, I knew nothing about Aspendale until this thread so Googled to try and discover more. I am aware that your knowledge and research may be far more extensive and accurate than what is on the net but some of it may be a reason why Brooklands is considered as first purpose build motor racing circuit. If google is to be believed It would appear that there was only one meeting held at Aspendale in 1906 on a dirt track within the horse racing venue, and then nothing more happened until the 1920's when the banked circuit was reputably built.

Location: NZ

http://localhistory.kingston.vic.gov.au/htm/article/370.htm

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/23719671

http://www.ozsportshistory.com/hmaspendale.html

Location: NZ