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Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Rick Fryer
I'm sorry, but but which part of the DVLA guidelines is not clear?


Without going off to check the DVLA website, the ones that come to mind are...

(and I wasn't just thinking of re-constructed vehicles)

There are references to 'all components' - but nothing to say what is meant by the word 'component'. Is a nut and bolt a component? Is a battery a component? And a piston ring?

It used to mention that vehicles over ten years old are not subject to IVA testing - but it is not clear whether this applies to a recently drastic-modified vehicle, based on a twenty year old vehicle.

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

A friend who received a letter from DVLA in July regarding his Historic registration on his 1930 A7 which he registered with DVLA two years ago. Has just received a letter from DVLA.
Quote
Thank you for your letter of 29 August about vehicle registration number …..
I apologise for the delay in my reply.
This letter is to let you know that DVLA are continuing to look at your case, however I will write to you again soon with a full response.
Unquote

Location: East Sussex

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Is your friend trying to get the cars original number officially reissued to his vehicle or trying to get a new age related number allocated ?
Certainly seems to be a lengthy process, I dread to think how many vehicles currently involved and that's without those of us still waiting to register.
Steve V

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

DVLA BLAMES £80M LOSS ON OLDER CAR OWNERS (Classic Car Weekly)

The DVLA has stated that older car owners are a major reason behind the Government losing £80 million in revenue from scrapping the car tax disc – but is clueless as to why.

New official statistics released in November revealed that it has lost £80m
in revenue from unlicensed vehicles, which the DVLA says is caused by scrapping the tax disc. Around 560,000 drivers are now evading the annual payment, up from 210,000 in 2013.

Of the unlicensed vehicles in the survey, 45% of these cars were more than 10 years old. The DVLA has credited these statistics to owners of older vehicles, but doesn’t understand why.

Karen Powell, press officer for the DVLA said: ‘We don’t know why cars older than 10 years old are the main culprits for tax evasion. The stats are what they are.’

Oliver Morley, DVLA chief Executive added: ‘Almost 99% of all vehicles on the road are correctly taxed but we are taking action against those who are determined to break the law.’

Clubs have fought back accusations from the DVLA, refusing to accept that members would be evading vehicle excise duty. Tony Ridge, head of public relations for the Jaguar Enthusiasts’ Club said: ‘It’s a generalisation really. There’s a big difference between the type of person with a cherished classic and someone who just has an older car.’

Lesley Phillips, president of the Stag Owners’ Club added: ‘Club members take care of their cars in general and are more than likely not evading anything. It seems like the DVLA could be doing more with their figures, it should include or exclude possible club members.’


Worrying statistics

The analysis of road users carried out this summer showed that 1.4% of vehicles were being driven without vehicle excise duty – up 0.6% from two years ago when the disc was still required. This new system caused many admin problems, including innocent motorists having their cars clamped.

Many groups were opposed to the new measures, including the RAC. Chief engineer David Bizley. He said: ‘Sadly, the concerns we raised about the number of car tax evaders going up at the time the tax disc was confined to history have become a reality.

‘These are very worrying and disappointing statistics indeed. We really cannot afford for this to increase again for the sake of both road safety and the country’s finances.’

Location: East Sussex

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

I know it is a big ask , but perhaps the DVLA could admit they have messed up , and re-instate the tax disc .
Is this another example of an official improvement which has had the opposite effect ??

Merv

Location: New Forest

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Perhaps it is what happens when cuts go too deep too quickly in search of political ideology?



Location: Derby

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

The significant excerpt from that announcement is the statement that "the DVLA are clueless"; what a surprise!

It doesn't take an informed expert to realise that most cars reach the nadir of their value at between ten and twenty years old; that is when money is tight and the majority of tax-avoidance occurs, but of course the DVLA doesn't understand this

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

I think all this is getting to me. I had a bad dream last night that the DVLA was being run by idiots.
Unfortunately, when I awoke I found it wasn't just a dream!

Location: Derby

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

If the percentage has gone up from 1.4% by .6% and the government have made a loss of £80m the 98% of us must be paying a lot.
Also if 99% are paying their tax 1% equates to £80m then 99 x £80 = a pretty good income anyway.
How did they arrive at these figures?
Roger

Location: Haverfordwest

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

"Of the unlicensed vehicles in the survey, 45% of these cars were more than 10 years old. The DVLA has credited these statistics to owners of older vehicles, but doesn’t understand why."

So that means 55% were less than 10 years old which is the majority. The owners of younger vehicle are clearly to blame.

Its all a load of nonsense. There is no proven link between cause and effect

David

Location: NE Peak Corner

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

For the DVLA's benefit I would like to point out to them that cars over and around 10 to 15 years old are as a rule are very cheep to buy, they are generally purchased by younger people or people with very little money, and they cannot afford to tax, insure or MOT them, a few points on their license if they have one and a fine are still cheaper than the price of the tax and insurance, if their couple of hundred quid old banger gets crushed as a result it is no great lose to them.

On the other hand when an older car gets to the age when it becomes tax exempt its price goes up in value, its new owner wants to preserve it as they know it will only go up in value and makes sure it is road legal.

Whilst I am having a rant here, can anyone explain why we have to renew our S.O.R.N every year? Once a vehicle is declared of the road there is no reason to re-declare it every 12 months, as its has to be either off the road or on it. The owner has declared the vehicle off the road and they use it they will be fined, its as simple as that.
Renewing the deceleration every year is just more D.V.L.A bureaucracy and a waist of time and our tax money, though it may create a few jobs in Swansea sending out all the reminders.

Location: Pembrokeshire

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

You no longer need to renew SORN on a vehicle every year (assuming that you did not tax the vehicle since the last SORN).

For once something was done which made some sense.

Location: Scotland

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

I feel that the entire SORN system should be relegated to history. The DVLA should have no interest in vehicles that are not on the road. They didn't need to keep tabs on unused vehicles in the past. As to being fined for not complying with the regulations it smacks of taxation by stealth.

Location: Derby

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

At least with S.O.R.N they are not likely to loose the records ? or take vehicles that have not be taxed for a few years out the system, although I would not be surprised if they did, so we have to go though all the aggravation of trying to get them re-registered.
Lets face it nearly every pile of bits pulled out of a barn has got at least a chassis number and has been registered for the road at some time, some even have a history in club records, and it was The D.V.L.A that did not record these vehicles in the first place.

Location: Pembrokeshire

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

I take your point, Phil. It's just the element of compulsion that sticks in my craw. It looks to me like yet another example of Government trying to criminalise it's population.

Location: Derby

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

The usual think of an idea, implement it without doing adequate research, then the normal "Oh ****, what have we done!" reaction from the moronic politicians/beaurocrats, who then scrabble around trying to find innocent scape goats to blame, except themselves.

What world are they living in?

Oh, ivory tower with heads up @arses?

Geoff - My Southern Hemisphere bluntness

Location: South Norfolk - Next to Suffolk

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

that's how it seems to work in the NHS, so no reason to expect it to work any different in another government owned/run body.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

In response to his preamble to the H&H auction catalogue of December 9th, I wrote to the Rt Hon Sir Greg Knight MP, Chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicles Group, in support of his continued championing of our cause.

Following his two meetings with Transport Ministers, Sir Greg’s reply received today said that ‘I think we are now in a position where they [the DVLA] are minded to judge each case on its merits’

I have heard of a Special with a new body being allowed to retain its identity on the basis of the 8-point system in recent months, confirming Sir Greg’s thoughts on the matter.

Sir Greg also goes on to say:

‘I am hoping that owners of vehicles will find the DVLA are more sympathetic, but if you become aware of any instance where the DVLA are continuing to behave rather heavy handedly and in an unfair way, then I would value hearing from you further because I really need specific cases to draw the Minister’s attention where the attitude being taken is wrong’.

So if we want to preserve our interests and culture, we know what to do.

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Nigel. Are we to believe that the Chairman of the all party Parliamentary Historic Vehicles Group has hitherto been unaware of specific cases of DVLA unfair and heavy handed behaviour?

What planet has he been living on?

Location: Derby

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

DVLA inspected, log book V5 now has 250GTO Replica on it
(WHAT'S GOING ON HERE WITH DVLA) Porsche to Ferrari

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C650092
This Car has won best in show. Winner in Four shows This is a rare opportunity to purchase a car that will appreciate in value. Award winning show car, .along with numerous other awards. The car has work done over the winter months to keep it to show winning standard. Car hand built in 2012 by Roy Kelly to exacting standards. The last Ferrari 250GTO sold at auction for £35 million.It is estimated that if car 19 was ever sold it would fetch over £45 million as the only 250GTO to win at Le Mans. The detail on this car are the same as one you would normally fine when you pay 250K for a recreation. It is a recreation of car 19 the only 250 GTO to win the Le Mans 24hr race. DVLA inspected, log book V5 now has 250GTO Replica on it, Tax 2016 full 12 months MOT on sale. Full service history cam belts and tensioners done 3000 miles ago, new alternator and uprated starter motor. Recreation is a repaneled Porsche 1990 944 S2 3.0 ltr chassis retaining all the chassis,doors, engine , gearbox 5 speed, suspension, brakes 4 pot Brembo vented discs, cooling & heating system, power steering, wiring loom, Front Screen and washer system. This gives you the feel and reliability of a production car with low running costs, 28/34 mpg unleaded £200 for a full service.The engine benifit's from a remaped ecu chip, induction kit, hand built stainless steel performance exhaust, estimated 245bhp. Details on car. Interior has replica dash with veglia gauges which all work, Nardi steering wheel with Ferrari horn push, replica GTO gear change, replica blue cloth seats as did the original cars from the factory, blue seat belts, replica rear view mirror,replica perspex sliding door windows,rear perspex screen with perspex air scoop,replica interior door openers with door panels, and pulls. Exterior replica stainless steel chromed wire wheels with hub converters and chrome replica 3 eared spinners, correct boot and alloy petrol cap with locking inner, replica door and boot locking door handles, chrome trim on screens & doors, chrome wipers, replica lights with fish eye indicators, 3 air scoops in nose section , perspex headlamp covers with stainless steel surrounds, perspex bonnet air scoops,replica bonnet catches and leather straps,replica alloy grill and driving lamps.Replica stainless steel hand built replica Snap-on exhaust tips. Car reduced from £34000 Will Take PX or cash offer invite

Location: East Sussex

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Perhaps it's on a Q plate?

Location: Derby

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Ray White
Perhaps it's on a Q plate?


Not at all it is VIL 8089

Location: East Sussex

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Ray, the Rt Hon Gentleman has been living on the same planet as us and things might be a lot worse than they are if he hadn't.
In 2007 he was named as one of the 50 most influential people worldwide in the Historic Vehicle Movement. In 2011 he was shortlisted as the ‘Industry Champion of the Year’ by the International Historic Motoring Awards, for his work in supporting the historic and classic car movement.

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Sorry Nigel. I mis read the letter. He wants to hear from anyone who is ill treated by the DVLA in future. Presumably, as he has had words with transport Ministers, things should improve from now on but if they don't, as you say,, we know what to do.

Location: Derby

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Liam McDermott
Ray White
Perhaps it's on a Q plate?


Not at all it is VIL 8089


Yes, I wonder if that is genuine? I tried to raise the number using the DVLA information search but found nothing for either Ferrari or Porsche.

Location: Derby

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Nigel
Ray, the Rt Hon Gentleman has been living on the same planet as us and things might be a lot worse than they are if he hadn't.
In 2007 he was named as one of the 50 most influential people worldwide in the Historic Vehicle Movement. In 2011 he was shortlisted as the ‘Industry Champion of the Year’ by the International Historic Motoring Awards, for his work in supporting the historic and classic car movement.


I don't doubt his enthusiasm, just his sacacity.
He lobbied for the removal of the MOT and the rolling tax exemption.

Charles

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Ray White
Perhaps it's on a Q plate?


My understanding of DVLA's convoluted rules on this stuff is the vehicle would come under "kit conversion" rules in that It would be able to keep its original registration if it has kept the donor vehicle's structure(i.e. the monocoque unmodified) along with its running gear, and has just changed appearance -in these circumstances, the vehicle make model in the V5C would have to change from whatever the the original manufacturer called it. Some (incomplete and ambiguous) DVLA info here https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconverted-vehicles

Location: N W Kent

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Ray White
Liam McDermott
Ray White
Perhaps it's on a Q plate?


Not at all it is VIL 8089


Yes, I wonder if that is genuine? I tried to raise the number using the DVLA information search but found nothing for either Ferrari or Porsche.


VIL 8089 is registered as an Isuzu!

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Mike Costigan
Ray White
Liam McDermott
Ray White
Perhaps it's on a Q plate?


Not at all it is VIL 8089


Yes, I wonder if that is genuine? I tried to raise the number using the DVLA information search but found nothing for either Ferrari or Porsche.


VIL 8089 is registered as an Isuzu!


I will try to call the owner to clarify

Location: East Sussex

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

I have noticed that the publicly available DVLA info seems to lag behind what is probably the pukka info available to the rozzers etc.

Private plates etc come up within a month or two.

I've found that the London congestion charge tool the best tool for checking numbers. - Red Unknown, Unknown Model. Sounds a bit like a pretend Ferrari to me??

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Mike Costigan
Ray White
Liam McDermott
Ray White
Perhaps it's on a Q plate?


Not at all it is VIL 8089


Yes, I wonder if that is genuine? I tried to raise the number using the DVLA information search but found nothing for either Ferrari or Porsche.


VIL 8089 is registered as an Isuzu!




Mycarcheck describes it as an "Isuzu 250GTO replica coupe"

VIL 8089 is a Northern Ireland registration, which I believe still has its own vehicle licensing department operating independently of DVLA.

Has someone found a way round the Q-plate issue, I wonder?

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E", not a "T".

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all
Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Martin Prior


Has someone found a way round the Q-plate issue, I wonder?


No. As per my earlier post, this car (apparently) hasn't had any structural modifications, so it still retains its "right to registration". But, as its appearance has radically changed it needs a new make/model to be recorded (chosen by the owner) in the V5C. It can't be called a Porsche (or any other registered manufacturer name) on the amended V5C document. More information here http://www.the-ace.org.uk/rebodying-a-clarification/

Location: N W Kent

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

I just wonder what the (expletive deleted) we have to do to get a voice that has the power not only to represent us but also be taken seriously!
It seems that this situation has probably been in the making ever since the closure of the local DVLA offices under the premise of saving money and providing a good service but centrally - yeah right!

This thread alone has been running for 6 months!
I confess to my incredible ignorance in the DVLA situation -I only discovered what was happening 2 months ago and have felt like a one legged man in an @rse kicking contest ever since.
I can't believe that the FBHVC is no more effective than a chocolate tea pot.

Surely somehow, someone (or body), somewhere has the influence to represent us properly, especially when you think of all the clubs and hundreds of thousands of car owners involved.
Perhaps legal representation is called for, with clubs/FBHVC paying for the representation.
As for the right Hon. gentleman mentioned I would be more impressed if he was taking a more pro-active roll with our difficulties.
Aaaargghhh!

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Stephen, we all share your frustration with the situation regarding the DVLA but rest assured this will all be resolved when the E.U.proposals for historic vehicles kick in. I am sure there is something in the Lisbon Treaty for everyone. Let's all vote to stay in the German EU. Oh Joy.

Location: Derby

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Thanks Ray,
I do of course live in hope of some sanity breaking out!
Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Ray, I take it that you’re pulling our collective leg re the EU proposals.
The DVLA’s tinkering with the 8-point system is nothing less than the thin edge of the Charter of Turin – something that at all costs must be kept from our shores.

On the one hand I was cheered by the Sir Greg’s response in that it demonstrated that the problems we face with the DVLA are at least being talked about. On the other hand I was disappointed to read that the DVLA is ‘minded to judge each case on its merits’.
By its own admission, the DVLA lacks both the knowledge and resources to pursue this line and furthermore have no remit to make those judgements based on anything but the 8-point system as currently stands in law. If the DVLA persist in this thinking then every decision it makes without recourse to what’s set down in statute, must be illegal.

And who’s going to represent us? There’s no substitute for our own efforts. Don’t expect the FBHVC to stand up for us in this instance, only we can save the day so get out your writing kit and make a fuss.

The next circus in town will be the EU MOT (2017) and if we think the present problems are a farce, we ain’t seen nothing yet.

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

I usually read every new posting waiting for good news, but isn't it a pain in the ass having to get too it, can somebody in management reverse the posting so that new ones are at the front of the post. Ba humbug

Location: Oakley ,Hants

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

"Charter of Turin" ...that's it... sorry if I got the wrong piece of EU legislation. No excuses really, after all they don't produce all that much do they? Haha.

Nigel, you mention in your blog (excellent read by the way) how seldom it is that old cars are encountered on the roads in Europe. I sincerely hope your influential contacts might be able to help in some way or the same will be brought to the U.K.

I fear we are all being swept along by the E.U. tide that has so weakened our National Identity and this is just part of the cynical politics that mess things up so badly that E.U. control is seen as the inevitable pathway. The DVLA may say that this has nothing to do with the E.U. but I suspect a conspiracy. There are always political games being played out in ivory towers which have far reaching consequences for all of us.

Location: Derby

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

I use "Recent Posts" in the header bar because of that, several interesting threads are now so long it is the only way. I do not know if Bravenet has a Newest First order.

Location: Hampshire

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Hmmm,
the Charter Of Turin is still somewhat vague especially as it is now at least 2 years old.
I can see how it could be of use if officially adopted and it may even be of use where a replica body is fitted because without the body (using their terminology) 'the remaining historic value of the vehicle to survive in a usable state is lost.

However, the charter has no legal value as far as I can see and is of little help to us in our current situation with the DVLA.

Also it does nothing at present to restore the the status quo as was (Pre disbanding of Local Vehicle Licensing Offices), in helping to get period numbers retained or getting DVLA acceptance of a vehicle that has lost it's original registration and/or body and has had to have a period style replica body made in order to be road worthy and needing a replacement period registration.

Steve V

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Steve, I can’t think that anyone on this side of the Channel would support the adoption of The Charter of Turin except of course the FBHVC who said:

‘Some, who have failed to grasp the political significance of this important development have sought to portray the charter as an example of officialdom constraining the use and preservation of historic vehicles. Nothing could be further from the truth. The freedoms that we enjoy to own and moreover use our historic vehicles are jealously guarded and valued. But as with all freedoms they come with responsibility. Freedom without responsibility is after all anarchy, and officialdom’s response to anarchy is legislation. The Charter of Turin is the very demonstration of the responsibilities that we voluntarily accept and its existence proves to international and national bodies that we can responsibly manage the freedoms of use that we enjoy without the need for
recourse to restrictive legislation.’

This nonsense turns on FIVA’s proscriptive definition of an Historic Vehicle and that alone. And surely the fact that we in the UK have in the past enjoyed our freedoms under authority without recourse to this sort of clandestine quasi-legislative constraint, proves that this is a lot of mouthwash. As for the anarchy stuff – it’s embarrassingly juvenile.

I've written again to Sir Greg Knight expressing my dissatisfaction with the DVLA being 'minded to judge each case on its merits'.

Arbitrary decisions made by an unqualified body with a history of inaccuracy in their administrative work is not a state we should accept under any circumstances, encouraging as it would the falsifying of provenance - the very behaviour the DVLA seeks to curb.

I also ask, to whom would an aggrieved party appeal following a disputed decision?

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Nigel, I agree with everything you say, the Charter of Turin would appear to be either a red herring or a cul de sac as far as our freedoms in using old cars is concerned.
The big question still is - who can we look to, to support our continued customary rights and traditions in using old cars whether they be original specimens or rebuilt/replacement bodied vehicles?
Sir Greg Knight - and I'm sure he is a thoroughly decent bloke, seems to be somewhat lukewarm in his responses and the FBHVC seem to be only good for sitting on the sidelines and passing the odd comment.
Considering the FBHVC say they support over 500 subscribing organizations in turn representing over 250,000 people, we don't seem to get much achieved by them.

The DVLA now no longer have the staff and historical knowledge that came with them.
All they consist of now as far as I can see, is a legislative implementer, a mass computer database with the ability to take taxes from vehicle drivers, and a quantity of staff who probably consider us as an inconvenience and who don't have the ability or power to understand or deal with us or what we represent.
In addition, do they even have the ability to truly judge each case on it's merits? -I would say no unless they aren't serious and only intend to pay lip service to considering each case.

I really hope Sir Greg will step up and achieve a positive outcome for us but I'm not holding my breath at this stage.
Will we need to hold mass historic vehicle gatherings in Whitehall to get the right peoples understanding?
Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

A protest would be a fun day out but I don’t think it would attract the amount of support needed to make a good show of it. Better I think to present a workable alternative to the present arrangements. There is a model existing on which we could build.

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) have devolved the business of looking after homebuilt aircraft and aircraft under a certain weight, to the Light Aircraft Association (LAA). Like the DVLA, the CAA haven’t much of a clue or the manpower to do anything but look at the main event – commercial aviation in their case. The LAA, run by enthusiasts, have the knowledge base and a system of voluntary inspectors to do all the stuff that the CAA haven’t the time or manpower to attend to.

I suggest that instead of protesting, we put our weight behind the adoption by the DfT of a similar set-up to be administered by an independent body, free from government influence and who (honestly) has our interests at heart. The DVLA can then concentrate on getting its record-keeping skills up to speed.

It’s clear that the DVLA can’t manage the current system without streamlining the process to our disadvantage, so maybe it’s time for some radical change?

The FBHVC might be the obvious choice for administering any new arrangement but I think that the 8-point system as we know it, must be set in stone before it could go ahead and frankly, having read the other night the FBHVC’s latest newsletter (get to it most easily via the VHRA site) I’m not convinced that the Federation is up to the job as their acquiescence seems to know no bounds.

I thought also that their stance at the DVLA meeting which translated as ‘we’re just here to watch the boys and girls let off steam; we’ll do the grown-up talking later behind closed doors’, was deeply patronising and verging even on the offensive.

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

An interesting suggestion, Nigel. I doubt the DVLA would voluntarily hand over control to anyone because it would be seen as an admission of failure. If the Government directed them to do so, I wonder how it would be paid for? I can't see the FBHVC taking this on - it would probably be too much for them. I imagine the Government would just set up another quango with a whole raft of charges and fees. That way, they keep control and rake in the cash while protesting that they "are doing something".

Location: Derby

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

As I understand things, the DVLA 'is a Quango'
Maybe the Government should allow the DVLA to have dedicated staff to deal with things properly... oh wait, that's what we used to have before Local Vehicle Licensing Offices were scrapped and successive cutbacks brought in!

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Before we do any thing, we need to have a list of what the old vehicle movement actually want from the DVLA. There are a lot of issues to be covered here, the current DVLA system seems to have covered most points but is left to unqualified individual staff members to make decisions about a vehicles future. This must not and cannot be allowed to continue.

Appointed club officials ( at least two )would seem to be the only people qualified to do such assessments, but now with a certified legally binding responsibility to be accurate.

We also need to establish what actually defines a motor vehicle in the first place,fortunately the law has all ready been done this for us. Any self propelled vehicle that can be used on a public road. So technically a drivable chassis is self propelled vehicle or a pile of components that can be assembled into a drivable vehicle and there for needs to be registered regardless of any body type fitted to it.The same applies to a drivable body shell. Remember you cannot tow a motor vehicle with or without an engine on a public road without it being road legal with the exception of it being taken to be scrapped.
Next, how much original equipment is required for it to get an age related / Q plate or new registration. This should be established if possible before any restoration work is carried out to assess what will need to be replaced with new or replica components. ( 8 point rule )

As above a barn find car with all the correct components and numbers should be no trouble to get a V5C issued before restoration, regardless of weather or not records exist for it. The vehicle exists as a whole and the numbers are correct for the year and type.( Standard issue V5C age related or original registration number issued )

Vehicle or chassis with some traceable numbers ( V5C date of original manufacture unknown believed to be ? and age related number. )

Component parts with no ID needs to be assessed on its originality and age 8 point system( V5C states made from period component parts, age related plate )

Component parts off or vehicle with no ID does not meet 8 points but old components ( Q plate SVA exempted but MOT and road fund payable )

A vehicle / chassis constructed from mainly new major components,with some original components fitted but does not meet 8 points ( Q plate replica, SVA exempted but MOT and road fund payable )

With this type of system and re-registering a vehicle before it is restored would show how much of it is original and the BOC officials that handed out the chassis numbers would be liable to prosecution, because not enough of the car qualifies as original and the vehicles would become both taxable and MOT compliant but would not be liable to an modern car SVA test that it could not pass.

Location: Pembrokeshire

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Nigel has come up with the best suggestion I've heard to date. I have an ex commercial pilot pal who now does inspections of things like old Tiger Moths for the CAA under the light aircraft banner. The existing points system which applies to new build kit cars and restored vehicles could be used as it stands with club officers doing what they already do with added training and responsibility,
Unfortunately this is probably too sensible to be put into practice but if FBHVA were to produce a suitable online or postable standard letter to be completed by members who knows what might transpire...

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Phil Kingdom
.....and the BOC officials that handed out the chassis numbers would be liable to prosecution, because not enough of the car qualifies as original.......


Remember, those 'officials' you refer to were/are Club volunteers just like many of us are with the various Clubs we belong to. Seems a sure fire way to ensure nobody ever volunteers to be involved with running a Club ever again!!

Location: North Yorkshire

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Stephen Voller
As I understand things, the DVLA 'is a Quango'
Maybe the Government should allow the DVLA to have dedicated staff to deal with things properly... oh wait, that's what we used to have before Local Vehicle Licensing Offices were scrapped and successive cutbacks brought in!


The cutbacks should represent an opportunity for vehicle clubs to offer to take control of classic, vintage etc. vehicle registration issues.

We have an odd "half way house" situation at the moment with people (who know about the particular genre of vehicle) on the V765 list are advising people at DVLA who are completely ignorant as regards old vehicles, but who are the ones who are making binding (and occasionally perverse) decisions.

If clubs and individuals who are on the V765 list were able to charge a reasonable fee to the owner for a legally binding authentication (or not) of a vehicle, this would both lower the administration cost to DVLA and would deliver a more transparent and equitable system to enthusiasts than we have now. IMO, this is what the FBHVC could usefully be arguing for with the government to permanently fix this issue.

Location: N W Kent

Re: DVLA New Rules which are going to affect us all

Steve Jones
Phil Kingdom
.....and the BOC officials that handed out the chassis numbers would be liable to prosecution, because not enough of the car qualifies as original.......


Remember, those 'officials' you refer to were/are Club volunteers just like many of us are with the various Clubs we belong to. Seems a sure fire way to ensure nobody ever volunteers to be involved with running a Club ever again!!


That is part of the problem,a club official is a volunteer and as such has no real binding responsibility for their actions and maybe a bit over enthusiastic. If the post was made as a voluntary DVLA officials / advisor's with a legal responsibility for their actions with at least two volunteers per club in agreement, working along current DVLA guidelines. There would seem to be no consequences at the present time for a single volunteer to deliberately misinterpret a vehicles status, and that is what has caused this problem in the first place. Even as a single club volunteer a fraud has been committed if they get it wrong, and if the club expert can get it wrong how can we expect the pen pushers at the DVLA to get it right.

Location: Pembrokeshire

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