I like it!

Nigel, please let me know if if there is any way in which I might be of assistance.

If we can break ground with this idea I think it will quickly be accepted by old car enthusiasts Nationwide, as the way forward. There are bound to be problems ahead but with perseverance they can be overcome.

I would be keen to put my name forward as an Inspector for Derbyshire. A steep learning curve I expect but no one said it would be easy.

Location: Derby

Location: N W Kent

Stephen Voller

As I understand things, the DVLA 'is a Quango'
Maybe the Government should allow the DVLA to have dedicated staff to deal with things properly... oh wait, that's what we used to have before Local Vehicle Licensing Offices were scrapped and successive cutbacks brought in!

Location: N W Kent

Whilst I believe the DVLA is being unreasonably strict in their interpretation of what is acceptable as a 'reconstructed classic', there is no doubt something needs to be done when a car like this is let loose on the roads:



Believe it or not, this is an MOT-exempt 'Historic' 1925 Singer - I have been unable to find any Vintage Singer specification which includes transverse-leaf springs and a supercharged V-8 engine!

Things seem to have gone strangely quiet on this topic - how long is it going to take for DVLA to come up with suitable guidelines so that the special-building community cane recommence their activities?

I came across this the other day, http://www.sammio.co.uk/register.aspx it would seem to be quite simple to register a historic special, assuming one has the correct paper work for the chassis, but what is involved in the inspection?

Location: Pembrokeshire

Mike,
It doesn't appear to have a body. Could this be a loophole that's allowed it back on the road?
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

Motor Trike??

Location: Wessex

Dave: No the Singer has no bodywork, wings, lights, windscreen, not even any protection of the external rotating bits of the engine! I think I suggested a few pages earlier that one solution to the DVLA problem would be to stick a verifiably over-25-year-old household chair onto a running chassis.

Ian: No, not a trike; it looks like it's got a mid-thirties Ford front axle and solid disc alloy wheels which the builder claims as Austin Seven style!

I heard today from Sir Greg Knight regarding the idea of devolving the remit of the DVLA:

'I understand that there are certain changes taking place at the moment with regard to the DVLA and how they view historic vehicles which, hopefully, should lead to an ironing out of recent problems.

I will bear your comments in mind should the situation not improve'.

Firstly, I wonder who the DVLA are consulting to effect these 'certain changes' and if that party has our interests at heart (certainly not if it's an internal departmental exercise and definitely not if it's the FBHVC).

Secondly, the 'ironing out of recent problems' will be to who's advantage?
As recent events have demonstrated, the DVLA's idea of ironing out problems is somewhat at odds with the spirit of the historic vehicle movement.

If anyone hears anything of these 'certain changes', let us know.

The VSCC newsletter contains a progress report which on first reading appears positive and hopeful

care to elaborate Duncan ?
Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Well the way I read it, it seemed to be a statement of how things were last September, and nothing much has changed since

Thanks Alan,
so nothing new really - shame, I was getting my hopes up. :O(
Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

"Positive and hopeful" or "nothing has changed". I am confused.
Dave.

Location: "Sheffield, call centre city"

Have a read through:
http://www.vscc-newsletter.co.uk/02-16-Newsletter/02-16-Newsletter.pdf

Location: Ripon

VSCC members only isn't it?

Location: Derby

I didn't realise there was a block on it, sorry. The same info is available elsewhere on t'interweb,I'll see if I can find a link...

The link works fine for me so I don't think it's "blocked"

Location: NE Peak Corner

At this stage I can see nothing that helps those who say, have complete set of mechanicals I.E complete vehicle minus the body, but with no registration who intend to restore said vehicle remains to original condition and who also intend to add a body constructed using traditional body making skills.
That is unless you go down the reconstructed classics route - it is unclear how your application would be treated or whether you could get a period registration number.

''15. Rebodied(P) Q:Where a replacement body (under 25 years old) is used, can a vehicle still be considered under the scheme?

answer: A reconstructed classic must be built from a collection of all genuine period parts, over 25 years old.
This includes the body, which must be appropriate to the vehicle.

A vehicle built from a mix of old and new parts is not acceptable.

DVLA comment: Initial discussions underway with the Federation of British
Historic Vehicle Clubs.''



DVLA were also asked to give a list of definitions:

''16 Definitions(P) -Could definitions be provided for rebuilt, restored and repaired vehicles?

-Clubs asked for definitions of each of the terms in order to ensure correct
terminology is used on the applications.

DVLA answer: This will be considered, however, it should be noted that there is difficulty in providing definitions as they depend on the nature of the work carried out.''

Surely without some sort of guidance/definitions then it's impossible to judge or make an application?

So while it is being discussed, there is nothing confirmed and nothing new since 23/09/15.
Steve V

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

This business could go on longer than the Dilnot Report.

Location: Sheffield

'This business could go on longer than the Dilnot Report.'

At that rate I may have to down the two bare seats and no bodywork route....
Yikes!
Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

“DVLA answer: This will be considered, however, it should be noted that there is difficulty in providing definitions as they depend on the nature of the work carried out.''

In the spring of 1986, Miss Whizzlong and I found ourselves in the foyer of the Department of Trade’s headquarters in Victoria St, London, as part of a planning committee.
The bicentennial of The Board of Trade was just round the corner and a bit of a beano was on the cards; HM was to unveil a plaque, Paul Channon (then Secretary of State for Trade & Industry) would say a few words following which we’d all fall on the crisps and pop.
There were 7 people arranged in a semi-circle in the foyer with Channon at one end and me at the other. The question was asked, ‘What colour should the foyer’s celebratory curtains be?’ and in a scene worthy of ‘Yes Minister’, Paul Channon consulted briefly with his aide, his aide turned to the Head of Management, the Head of Management turned to his secretary who turned to the commissioning architect, who looked at Miss Whizzlong and she turned to me.
‘Gold’.
A murmur of approval rippled its way back to the Minister.

If the DVLA would just admit that they’re out of their depth and devolve the responsibility of historic vehicles to an independent body, then things will move forward.

Spot on Charles.
It would be interesting to know if that ‘chunk of oversight’ was officially sanctioned and if so, how? Such a mechanism could be cited as a precedent for change.

Chris Garner writes:

R,

Further to the on going discussions on the Friends' Forum if you think pertinent could / would you place the enclosed attachments on there please? It may fill in a few gaps and of course keep the readers informed.

Regards

Chris

https://gordonenglandregister.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/progress-report-9-11-15.pdf

https://gordonenglandregister.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/information-attachment.pdf

https://gordonenglandregister.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/rc-built-up-vehicle-report-hve.pdf

Thanks for posting that Ruairidh, most helpful.

Location: Ripon

Chris is the one to thank Duncan, I am just the messenger...

Thank you Chris for the documents.

Chilling reading; the DVLA are going all out to kill off Special building.

I'm sure some people will be clapping their hands with glee but I think most would recognise the wider implications of the DVLA’s new posture regarding historic and classic vehicles.
I have written yet again to Sir Greg Knight with some comments on the Progress Report.

The All Parliamentary Historic Vehicles Group is next meeting on the 10th February and, if you have some thoughts on the contents of these documents, it might be worthwhile contacting the Group by email at thomasml@parliament.uk

If we don’t make a noise about this, we can blame only ourselves for whatever constraints are put on our enjoyments in the future.

"Legally registered 1927 Bugatti" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121887307337?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Note the charming sales patter! I am now awaiting the arrival of the constabulary.

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E", not a "T".

Comments from the sales blurb:-"I DO NOT NEED ANY COMMENTS ABOUT THE VEHICLE FROM HISTORIANS . UNWANTED MESSAGES ARE NOW ILLEGAL AND WILL BE FORWARDED TO THE POLICE AS I'M SICK OF EBAY ANORAKS AND RATHER THAN PUNCH YOU IN YOUR TEENAGE HEAD I WILL JUST LET YOU RING YOUR MUM WHEN EBAY BAN YOU AND THE COPS PLAY WITH YOU IN A CELL."
Quite unpleasant.
Dave.

Location: "Sheffield, call centre city"

Tony,
I think he/she is trying to be amusing but to me it sounds crass.Not a nice way to sell anything.
Dave.

Location: "Sheffield, call centre city"

The vendor sounds like a real charmer!
Registered as 1927 Bugatti on a V5c!
What I want to know is how the hell can it get a V5 as a period car when the DVLA are giving us such a hard time over registering legitimate original or rebodied vehicles?

Nigel, I've emailed the Historic Vehicle Group as you suggested re our current problems with the DVLA - hopefully it will do some good somehow.
Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

I think it’s worth mentioning...

FBHVC Newsletter 2013. Re: The Charter of Turin.

‘Some, who have failed to grasp the political significance of this important development have sought to portray the charter as an example of officialdom constraining the use and preservation of historic vehicles. Nothing could be further from the truth’.

Re: FBHVC Newsletter 2015. Re: DVLA Policy Changes.

‘Discussions on our unhappiness at what is happening have continued without much success until now. […] If we get anywhere with this approach we will clearly be asking what public interest is served by this new obsession with originality where it was previously not required’.

Who failed to grasp what, couldn’t be clearer.

Location: North Yorkshire

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E", not a "T".

Hi Steve,
that's pretty much what I surmised.
Doesn't help that DVLA no longer have adequately trained and knoweledgable staff.
Having worked for another government Quango involving rules and regulations, the making thereof and implementation of same, -seeing the current DVLA half ars*d we'll make it up as we go along approach doesn't inspire me with confidence.

Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

In a reverse to a recent situation, we colonials sit in startled wonder at the UK's historic car groups ongoing discussions with the DVLA (and I thought VicRoads was a weird name)

Look at the length of this series of Forum postings !

This rather bizarre story-

"The car will have been imported into the UK with documents from the USA saying it is a 1927 Bugatti. The DVLA accept whatever is included on documentation issued in another country without question and, thus, issued the V5. The owner has benefited from this loophole but has, probably, done nothing wrong at all having followed DVLA procedure to the letter."

must surely give some ammunition to point up the stupidity in the DVLA's approach to the recent decisions regarding rebuilt Austin Sevens.

But what would a colonial know

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

before all you guys start booking your shipping containers, remember all those 'Pur Sangs' that were imported into the UK and accepted to be registered as Bugattis, are now getting letters. Our tasty mate with the VW will likely get one as well!

Location: oz

Location: East Sussex

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E", not a "T".

You could try an FOI (Freedom of Inforamtion) request from DVLA. They should be able to extract that detail from their database.

Location: NE Peak Corner

Location: Eye on the Norfolk / Suffolk border

Fascinating that with all the hoo haa going on with the DVLA, the latest edition of the FBHVC News carries a four page article on the British Motor Heritage - manufacturers of replace bodies for makes such as the Mini, MGB etc.

Location: Melton Mowbray

Location: Auckland NZ

'If it's true that we are witnessing the death of special building then it's a very sad day'.

It's even sadder if we just stand by and watch it happen!

Location: North Yorkshire

I could be wrong here, but as I understand it at under the rules at the present time, if you have a vehicle that has a current V5C you are able to fit a replacement body different from the original to the unmodified chassis. The DVLA are informed by using the V627/1 form, the vehicles name must be changed as it no longer resembles the original, but it will retain its original registration number and historic status and will have to be inspected.

This information comes from Ribble Kits http://www.sammio.co.uk/images/Ribble.pdf
Who supply glass fibre bodies for Triumph Herald type chassis and class it as a classic re-body and not a kit rebuild. If this information is correct it should be fairly easy to register an A7 special with a current V5C.

Location: Pembrokeshire

As far as I can interpret the DVLA's policy,there is no problem whatsoever in creating a special from a complete vehicle with a current registration; equally there should be no problem in obtaining an age-related plate for an unrecorded vehicle, as long as you can supply suitable evidence of the vehicle's original identity in the form of the buff or green Registration Document.

The problem we now have is the resurrection or reconstruction from an original chassis frame and components from other origins which the DVLA term as a reconstructed classic. Even though the chassis has always been considered the basic unit of the vehicle, and in the case of the Austin Seven the frame can be readily dated from its number, DVLA are now no longer accepting that as being evidence of the age of the special.

Unless I’m missing some fundamental point, parts of the Progress Report posted by Chris Garner headed ‘V765 Scheme’ and ‘Reconstructed Classics’, seem to me to be contrary to Phil’s and Mike’s interpretations of the maybe/maybe not, rules.
In particular, sections 8, 9 and 15 together are something that Joseph Heller might have been proud of and, equally imaginative, under the heading of Progress, ‘Initial discussions underway with the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs’!
In 2006, I finished my A7 Special and took it to the local DVLA offices for inspection. The 8-point system was applied and a tax disc awarded. I have written to Sir Greg Knight urging him to argue with the utmost vigour for the system’s ‘complete, unaltered and unambiguous reinstatement’.
Only then will Special builders know where we stand.