My other car is a little French thing built in 1906. The leather cone clutch had finally worn out so I decided to reline it, after all how hard could it be, just need a new bit of leather and rivet it on.

So I dropped into my local saddlers to find they don’t do leather work anymore but were happy to give me the name and number of a traditional saddler in Norwich. Phoned George the saddler who was incredibly helpful, he spent a long time explaining the different properties of leather depending on where on the hide the leather comes from and the tanning process that completely change its characteristics, a real education. We then started talking about what material would be good to use as a clutch lining, his suggestion was a bit of sole bend (used to make shoe soles), oak tanned to be specific because of the natural oils left in the leather by the oak. Unfortunately being a saddler he couldn’t help me but he knew a retired boot maker that he was meeting down the pub that evening and I should phone back the next day.

I phoned the next morning only to find that his mate had got rid of his old stock but suggested I phoned a company down in Ipswich who were still doing boot repairs and gave me their number. So I phoned them to find they buy pre-cut soles and don’t buy bends but I could try so and so, this went on for some time, each company being really helpful and suggesting people I could try until I spoke to Frank. Frank said
“Yes I still buy bends how big and thick a piece do you need”, so I explained,
“Oh no I don’t have anything that big but I know the bloke who can help, he’s called Paul and he’s an orthopaedic shoe maker.”

After all this I’m starting to get a bit parched so put the kettle on. After a cuppa I phone Paul who in broad Norfolk said,
“Ahh you must be the chap with the old car, Frank said you would be in touch, what are you looking for?”
So again I explain what thickness and size bit I need and Paul said
“Yeah boy I can sort that for you, when would you like to come over?”

Ended up with the exact bit of leather I needed, it only cost me £10 and a 17min journey from my workshop to Paul’s workshop. I never thought at the beginning of all this I would end up going to see an orthopaedic shoe maker.

Apologies for the essay! Just thought this little tale might go to show that there still are some incredibly helpful people left in the world.

Tom

Location: Eye on the Norfolk / Suffolk border

This is a truly wonderful story and reminds me of my odyssey in search of lignum vitae balls...

I found it really interesting, I was at one stage thinking that you would eventually be recommended the first guy you saw. It's a good thing we have contacts. I dunno what we would do without this forum , you can get help and advice from anywhere in the world.

Location: Oakley ,Hants

Ace! Thanks for sharing :)

If you need any help with the broad Norfolk.

Although I don't know to much about those silly Suffolk tractor boys.

Tony.

Location: HUNCOTE on the pig

Michael, are you going to share the odyssey or just leave us guessing?

Tony, be careful now. Since I have recently moved from Norfolk to Suffolk I now have dual nationality and have to carry both passports 😨

Location: Eye on the Norfolk / Suffolk border

Tom,

Really grand story which teaches patience is all that you need

Michael,

"This is a truly wonderful story and reminds me of my odyssey in search of lignum vitae balls..."

I won't ask

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

With regards to Michael trying to find his balls, I managed to get John Williams in Swansea to pinch a couple of Crown Green Lignum balls to use as anvils for metal shaping. Top man! Polished up with a grinder and some Roloc discs.

With regards to leather, "The Brendan Voyage" is a good book. Trying to make a 4 man boat with leather skin to cross the entire North Atlantic using oars...magnificent story about rediscovering lost skills.

Location: Cardiff

The balls...

It was a guilt thing.

While sailing a boat from the 1890s I carelessly lost the owners string of parrel beads over the side off Salcombe. He pretended that it didn't matter but you could tell by the brave(ish) look on his face that they had been very dear to him. He had spent several years and huge amount of money restoring the boat.

(Parrel beads are used on the jaws of a gaff to help it run smoothly up and down the mast)

It was too easy to find wooden balls/beads made out of something either unknown or inappropriate but I knew I had chucked treasured lignum vitae into the water, apart from anything else it doesn't float.

One evening when I have consumed sufficient Tesco Australian Red I will tell the tale. The suspense won't kill you.

It just goes to show there are still some of the old craftsmen around who will stop to help you and not try to sell you something else.

Hi Tony looks like your team will be playing them next year. S&P

Location: Sunny Gower

hi stuart,

in your neck of the woods today, ammanford. bandit country.

took a wrong turn and had a 2 mile treck up a single path over the black mountains / hills it felt steep.

you may be right about going down. although tom, we dont need passports. we just count the number of fingers once we get over the border.

i think thats what they call friendly rivalry.

stuart, how did you do against leicester, tracy is still laughing

its all good fun, tony

Location: huncote on the pig

Fortunately, there are still people out there who are willing to offer help and advice for no gain to themselves. My A7 woodwork activities rely heavily on information supplied through the goodwill of enthusiasts, not least many members of this Forum.

I myself regularly get enquiries that are never going to turn into orders, but I like to chat to people and I'm usually happy to point them in the direction of individuals or businesses that can help them if I can't.

The problem is trying to decide at what point sharing information with a fellow enthusiast starts to turn into commercial suicide! I earn my living making timber products for specialised markets, which, in its humble way, involves quite a lot of research and development. I've worked hard to collect "intellectual property" that isn't widely available. Most people grasp that I'm in business and don't push too far, but is it fair to ask me where I buy my timber and how much do I pay for it, or to request (for free!) photos and drawings of items that they plan to make themselves?

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E", not a "T".

Ivor Hawkins

Martin Prior

Most people grasp that I'm in business and don't push too far, but is it fair to ask me where I buy my timber and how much do I pay for it, or to request (for free!) photos and drawings of items that they plan to make themselves?

No it's not fair Martin, you charge a fair price and shouldn't be giving giving away hard-earned experience for nothing...now how about a discount on some sunroof timbers for my RP!

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E", not a "T".

Hi Tony, you should have called in for a cup of tea,and a guided tour of the Liberty stadium, we play Leicester away on the 23rd of April. lets see if Tracy is laughing then. S&P

Location: Sunny Gower

Hi Stuart,

I would have given a call and dropped in.

But I had to go to Devon to pick up some work first.

Had some brass strips made for the back of the switch panel, as they are usually broken and filled with solder. Needed them for my own switch panels. So thought I'd have a 100 done in case anyone wants any.

So beleive me it was already going to be a long day.

Started at 6am and got home at 8pm.

Although the large Cornish pasty at dinner time made it worth wile.

Tony.

Location: HUNCOTE on the pig

Martin,

" The problem is trying to decide at what point sharing information with a fellow enthusiast starts to turn into commercial suicide! I earn my living making timber products for specialised markets, which, in its humble way, involves quite a lot of research and development. I've worked hard to collect "intellectual property" that isn't widely available. Most people grasp that I'm in business and don't push too far, but is it fair to ask me where I buy my timber and how much do I pay for it, or to request (for free!) photos and drawings of items that they plan to make themselves?"

I can see your point - but you must also remember many on the forum also freely give hard earned advice, with no expectation of a return other than in kind.

As a club volunteer I now seem to work as hard as I once did for a crust- sometimes wishing that I could top up my fast disappearing funds.

Not sure where it all stops but reason should prevail.

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

I get cheeky sods asking me how I do my work and my answer is " you've taken my bread and butter and now you have the cheek to ask me for the jam"
I even had someone ask me to go and sort out a job for which I had priced because they couldn't do it. Had I had the time I'd have gone to the job and charged them a fortune but I gave them the short answer starting and ending with f.
I'm happy to help out anyone who asks unless they're trying to take the bread off my table.

Tony, you'll note that in my opening paragraph I acknowledged the help that I get from fellow enthusiasts.

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E", not a "T".

Martin,

"Fortunately, there are still people out there who are willing to offer help and advice for no gain to themselves. My A7 woodwork activities rely heavily on information supplied through the goodwill of enthusiasts, not least many members of this Forum."

I read that- and as I said it is difficult to see where the exchange should stop, especially when you are trying to make a living.

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Martin,
chances are if I had gone to someone who relined leather cone clutches for a living and asked what material did they use, where did they get it from, how much did it cost and then how did they do it, I would probably have been told to s*d off. That being said one of the greatest things about A7 people (cant say all the old car gang) is just how open they are about what they've done and how they've done it. It's a tough one to call

Location: Eye on the Norfolk / Suffolk border

I suppose that the real problem is not someone wanting to get the basic facts for free, it's when they expect me to give away my "added value" for nothing.

I regularly share the benefit of forty-plus years of A7 experience with others and would not for a moment think of doing the vast majority of it for any reward.

In the last couple of days I've had an enquiry about the type of timber used for a particular application and was quite happy to advise on that on the basis that it's common knowledge.

On the other hand, I gave up two hours of my working day earlier in the week showing a guy round the workshop and going into detail about materials and methods of manufacture before I realised that all he'd come for was a free crash course in how to build Austin Seven framework himself. That, I think, was well out of order!

There are a relatively small number of us who make a living providing specialist services that many other enthusiasts rely on. Most of us will have spent many years developing the knowledge, skills and contacts required.

I doubt that many of us are getting rich and certainly in my case I do this job because I thoroughly enjoy it and find it very rewarding. However, our businesses have to be viable in order to provide a professional service and the bottom line is that we have to be paid for our work!

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E", not a "T".

So I’ve lost loads of time over the last few months to wedding planning but now that I’m a happily married man and have my spare time back I can get on with stuff like tinkering with cars.

Finally managed to get my leather cone clutch done, had to send the leather off to get it skived down to a constant thickness which took a while to come back. Then the fun and games of working out the pattern, the old one that came off was only used as a rough guide to get the replacement leather. No matter what calculations I tried (working with thick card) it either was baggy at the top or the bottom of the cone, so ended up using good ol trial and error until reaching a base rad of 628mm. Finally finished riveting in place tonight so I can crack on and fit it this weekend.

Tom

Location: Eye on the Norfolk / Suffolk border

Any chance of a picture of the car Tom?

Location: Near M1 Motorway Jtn 28

Sure Brian,



Hope you like it even though it's not an Austin but an Astahl which is close. Soon to be back on the road for it's 110th birthday!

Tom

Location: Eye on the Norfolk / Suffolk border

Thanks for the picture Tom, what a nice looking car.

Location: Near M1 Motorway Jtn 28

Hi Tom

An intriguing tale. The clutsch problem must recur in veteran circles. What do others do? It is great to preserve the total character of old cars, but presumably truck brake shoe lining material could be bonded on in pieces, or is nothing now available in roll form.
Asides add interest. Have never heard of an Astahl. Some details please!

Location: Auckland, NZ

Thanks Brian and Mike, glad you like it, the grin factor when driving is huge.

Mike, don't worry, give it a couple of months and I'm sure I can drop the "happily" off that statement .

Bob, there are different materials on offer now and I know people have had great success using a woven Kevlar material that is available off a roll, in fact quite a few people advised I use it instead of leather. However I read a lot of articles (especial from America where they used cone clutches for far longer) on the subject and found that Kevlar works great on a heavy car but can be very grabby on a light car and therefore opted for sticking with leather.

As for the car I think it's the only surviving example of the marque. At the time loads of little companies started up by buying in an engine (in this case de Dion Bouton) and cobbling a car round it. The Astahl company survived for about a year and may have made as many as ten cars, all of which would have had the same faults as this one, hence the survival rate. It's got a 8hp single cylinder engine, three speed box and a planetary diff like a 7 and a top speed of 40mph which is enough on those little tyres. I once miss read a corner and managed to get all wheels drifting, fortunately the other half was reading the tulips at the time!

Tom

Location: Eye on the Norfolk / Suffolk border

Thanks

I guess your wife is one of the rare exceptions and does not habitually slip car clutches!
Hopefully the power to weight ratio of your Seven will not be less than the veteran!

Location: Auckland, NZ

For those who do not have access to Georgano's " Encyclopaedia of the Automobile " he states that the car was manufactured by a firm, Lêvéue et Bodenreder, Boulogne-sur-Seine, Paris, which traded from 1906 to 1908. Several models were listed, 6 and 8hp single cylinder De Dion engined and a 10/12 hp 4 cylinder unit by Amstoutz. The cars appeared to have been aimed at the British market.
The Company also produced a car called The Helbé from 1905 to 1907, the name derived from the name ( L and B ). This appeared to be much the same as the Astahl. Some Delage components were used in the car and the first PUCH car was based on it.

Tom is to be both envied and congratulated in owning such a lovely Edwardian vehicle.

Location: Melton Mowbray

Thank you Chris, it’s my dad who deserves all the credit, he was given the car as a complete wreck and being the nutter that he is decided that it was worth saving. Being an nhs surgeon metalwork isn’t really his forte so he went to night classes in Hackney to learn how to make a replacement chassis. He sourced a new engine as the original was dead (or so he was told but that’s another matter) and had the body made as nothing of the original remained. It was always riddled with problems, he could only drive it for ten miles before boiling. I remember as a kid and being taken on a well planned route along Essex road to Upper street, past Angle tube station, down the City road and back home which was exactly ten miles and the car would be boiling by the time we got back. He tried endlessly to solve its problems and eventually gave me the car telling me to “sort it out” when I was 15, and I’ve been doing so ever since.
I could go through the list of things I’ve had to do but it’s exhaustive, parts availability is rubbish and the owners club is diabolical! All of these things lead me to look for a car that’s the complete opposite which is why I ended up looking for an Austin 7 and I’m so glad I did. Parts availability is great(even tuned bits!) and everyone who I’ve had the pleasure to meet/talk to from this forum, the NA7C, cherished suppliers and the people racing them have been so helpful and open with their knowledge and advice. After the Astahl is up and running again it will be full steam ahead with the 7 and I’ll start a build thread ASAP.

Tom

Location: Eye on the Norfolk / Suffolk border

Hi all, just a little update. The Astahl did sterling work over the weekend and completed the 80 mile VSCC Norfolk Tour. Clutch worked beautifully and far better than expected, progressive take up and a little slip which was only noticeable when trying to hurry second to third. My brother who was following with Dad in the 30-98 said I touched on 45mph at points (downhill) but probably averaged 20mph on quiet back roads and the car was doing this at 40mpg. A few jobs for the winter but it’s in one piece and working so on with the seven……

Tom

Location: Eye on the Norfolk / Suffolk border

Congratulations, Tom. I've enjoyed the saga and am delighted to learn that it was all worth while.

Regards,
Stuart

Love the car Tom, the travelling mechanic looks fairly laid back too.

Ian Mc.

Location: Shropshire

Excellent!

Wonderful little car. And certainly a lot of work to make it run, maybe like it never did in its time? Congratulations.

Location: Brittany

Hi Tom

As a matter of curiosity, how was the overheating cured? Some causes can be very subtle. On other makes I have encountered uncorroded but porous cylinder liners which did not leak significant tell tale water; only apparent after a small oversize rebore; a very obscure defect.

We are always told that friction is independant of surface but it does not seem to apply to tyres. I suppose with larger surface contact the chance of it all having low grip at any instant is reduced. The contact area with motor bikes is very small, but seem to grip reasonably.

Fopr comparison with Sevens, the bore and stroke and cc would be of interest. And you probably know the revs and bhp. When first introduced the RAC hp was usually a reasonable indication of bhp, although it favours few cylinders.

Location: Auckland, NZ

Hi Bob,

The overheating issue. Dad had to get a lot of the work done by a professional when it was restored the first time round, things like making the body, wheels, re-tubing the front axle, new radiator built to the original pattern etc. This man (who's still working) blamed the engine for the overheating issue saying the water galleries were insufficient because Dad had found the engine being used as a pump engine and therefore was not designed for variable revs. This is the reason Dad gave up and palmed it off to me.
I found a period correct single (the car originally had a single) to replace the 1911 twin and off I went. Whilst going through things and just as a thought I stuffed a hose pipe down the filler neck of the rad. turned the tap on and watched as the water poured out the top and dripped out of the bottom! Did the usual caustic clean out and no difference but whist moving it round I heard a little rattle, many a happy hour was spent with the rad on my lap rocking it side to side, if anyone had seen me I would probably have been committed. The result was a fist full of lead pieces, a perfectly flowing rad. and a professionals reputation in the bin. By the time I had found the problem I was to committed to the single to turn back.

As for the tyres I can tell you the tyres are to narrow. The first time I took the car out with the new clutch I gave it a bit of an Italian service and coming out of a sharp corner the back end slipped out which can't be caused by too much power

The engine is stamped as 1906 production but was first sold in 1907. The new engine boasted pressure lubrication and mechanical inlet valve. 100mm bore and 120mm stroke, 943cc and rated at 8hp. I have no idea what it actually produces and the rev limit is set by how much vibration you can stand travelling up your spine but I'm probably slightly exceeding it's supposed 1000rpm limit

Sorry for the essay,

Tom

Location: Eye on the Norfolk / Suffolk border

Correction, Renaud. Shall we say either Loubetian or Fallièresian ??

Location: Melton Mowbray

Hi Tom

Essay or not, more interesting than the customary enquiries about dud dynamos.

Tales of dud repairs by "experts" are legion. Unfamiliarity with the vehicle one feeble excuse but does not apply to radiators.

Works out at 8.9 RAC hp and at just 1000 rpm bhp apparently less. Many sources mention the vibration of veteran cars. The later racing Peugeot narrow angle 80x280 twins must have been challenging. The smoothness of modern large fours is remarkable considering the huge secondary unbalance forces. I guess at higher rates there is not time for the structure to move.

Looking forward to spotting you in the next YouTube London to Brighton clips. Should be able to outstrip slow revving Yank one lungers.

Location: Auckland, NZ

Location: Brittany