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Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom
Location: East Sussex
Location: East Sussex
I have a soft spot for replicas especially where the builder has paid close attention to detail. Whether or not they should be treated in exactly the same way as cars with a genuine pedigree is a moot point. To my mind, although they are not historic vehicles they probably deserve to be recognised by the authorities as a special case and fall into a category of their own with similar dispensations to those enjoyed by genuine historic vehicles.
I think I would argue that where a vehicle is constructed with no attempt made to follow in the spirit of an original (historic) design but reflects the builder's imagination and flair; being essentially a 'hot rod' or 'street rod' of some kind, then it should be treated differently. Where the line should be drawn between these cars and 'specials' is not something that I feel sufficiently confident to comment on.
Location: Derby
Liam, what baffled me was your comment that "DVLA rules allow this and it is legitimate".
Almost all traditional Austin Seven projects could comply with those rules as virtually all of them were mechanically of pre-war origin and re-bodying an old chassis was perfectly OK.
As far as I'm aware, DVLA rules have never allowed new, or substantially new-build cars to be registered as "historic" vehicles.
However, if what I've read on this thread is true, certain clubs and individuals have been abusing the system on an industrial scale and we are all now being punished for their activities.
A 2010 new-build with 2010 on the V5 is a replica. A 2010 new-build with 1930 on the V5 is a fake and should be treated as such. I don't care whether there are ten thousand of them out there!
Location: Herefordshire, with an "E", not a "T".
FBHVC and DVLA have you been communicating or are we forever in this same old loop? A progress report would be very welcome. Has anyone read "The Castle " by Franz Kafka? It's decades since I read it but I seem to remember it was about a few peasants being controlled by a massive number of bureaucrats based in the castle on the hill where the bureaucrats were incapable of making any decision. Sounds familiar........
Dave.
Location: Sheffield
Forum members may be interested to know what the seller of the hot rod has to say about the V5c....
And I quote
" The logbook has no other information on it other than 'morris', no model or anything else on there (ideal hotrod book). Think I'm the second owner on the v5, need to pull it out to double check. It's a new v5c so no worries with it needing a check like some of the older style log books. It's obviously an mot and tax exempt book. I know a lot of owners that run their rods in this way so it's the route I was taking, but insuring it with everything disclosed. Reg is transferable too, so worth a bit!. "
Location: Herefordshire
I have just been reading the latest newsletter from FBHVC (issue 2/2016) and note there is absolutely zero progress from the DVLA on age-related registration. It is on FBHVC website for those who are interested.
Dave
Location: Sheffield
Location: East Sussex
Hopefully things will progress more quickly now Liam.
Sure am glad you friend wasn't holding his breath!
Steve V.
Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom
Location: East Sussex
Perhaps an update, such as it is, is required.
The latest FBHVC News carries an article on Registration Matters. Firstly it would appear that the DVLA negotiator moved on and it took some time to establish with whom to deal with (!)
As we know the major issue concerns bodies on vehicles with a chassis. The DVLA has on numerous occasions rejected applications on the basis of the body not being original or consistent with the original body style - often based on the body style described in the old VE60 logbooks. The DVLA's own publication, viz INF 26 and V765/3 appear to preclude that bodies on chassis should be considered in the case of a genuine vehicle. However the DVLA continue to maintain that local authorities always had considered bodies in the past and thus would continue to do so.
Much research has unearthed a Ministry of Transport document regarding licensing, taxation and registration which clearly states that the chassis constitutes the vehicle and that it not only forms the frame but both of the axles, gears, steering and transmission. A change of body by itself does not constitute a change in identity.
A further search appears to show that this policy remains unchanged.
Thus this information has been conveyed to the DVLA in a Policy Paper and a response is awaited.
Chris Garner, VC- A7CA
Location: Melton Mowbray
At first reading this would seem to be a step in the right direction. Let's hope that common sense prevails in the face of red tape.
Location: East Sussex
So it's taken nearly seven months for the inspection to happen? Unbelieveable!
Let's hope a suitable V5C arrives within the next few days, as it did for the case of the Renault Dauphine that I mentioned last year.
At this rate I will be in my woodland wicker casket before any progress is made on registering my special.
Dave.
Location: Sheffield
Sadly I was not able to retain the number from my 1925 barn find trials special unearthed after a 40 year slumber, despite sending DVLA both a 40 year old, MOT and Tax Disc, receipt of Reg file transfer from "home" authority to the final one . Plus I had the usual dating letter and inspection report from the local club.
Despite all this a a full set of photos DVLA reject my application to retain the 1925 reg number and sent all my documentation back.
When I phoned to discuss the situation the official was as helpful as they could be but said they were "powerless"
As they had a strict protocol to follow and as I had not proved a direct link between the chassis no and the registration no they had to decline my application for a V5. However the official said I had enough evidence to get an age related number, which after about two months they finally issued one , in the correct format 2 letters 4 digits.
Always try to get a personal contact at DVLA in the K& R section ( there are 14 of them!) being able to phone enabled me to negotiate this maze caused by the Govt cutting civil service jobs in LOcal licensing offices
Now need to complete the Cup Rep body and change the colour!
Happy motoring!
Having a set of original Chummy wings and a 50 year old rough trials body possibly helped , but not to retain its own number even though I had loads of data but not the crucial logbook or Licensing Office records many of which were destroyed across the country.
I must try and research the age related no!
Regards
Bill
Location: Scottish Border
Location: East Sussex
Has your friend been in touch with the FBHVC? - if not he should - they keep saying they need examples of whats going on.
Location: Kent
Please don't throw things at me, but having been involved in the whole process several times myself and also taking an interest in genuine cars, I really feel for the DVLA bods because the lengths some of the fakers have gone to, in order to create desirable vintage and post vintage cars is extraordinary.
What's more, a lot of them have got away with it. There are heaven knows how many Riley Imps, Brooklands, MPH's that all started out as perfectly restorable saloons, but have now inherited some sort of "history"...the same goes for whole range of other cars including six cylinder MGs, Singer LeMans, Wolseley Hornets, Bentleys and Bugattis, where there are more around now than were actually built in the first place!
Sadly the big money cars are being used to shift large amounts of money around the globe by rich businessmen and investors, which means a) the real thing is out of a lot of people's reach now and b)Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs has tightened up the rules to the point that the DVLA are looking very, very closely at every application, virtually regardless of the value of the car, knowing that a correct registration considerably adds to the value of the vehicle, particularly where "history" is concerned...did you know Tazio Nuvolari raced my Box saloon?
I really feel for the owners of specials like Hamblins and Speedex who are trying to retain a bit of history to their cars, even though they were built in the 50's and 60's and if you are building a special today, you really do have to have all your ducks in a row.
Location: East Sussex
Another route to try to make progress with this business could be to write to the following:-
The Rt Hon Sir Greg Knight MP,
House of Commons,
London,SW1AOAA.
He is the Chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicles Group.
,
Location: Sheffield
A record breaking 355000 car registration "private numbers" issued by the DVLA this year according to recent media reports. Has this any bearing on the sluggish progress of allowing age-related plates for old vehicles? There will not be any age related plates left soon.Plenty pennies earned by DVLA flogging "private numbers" and no money to be earned by them sorting out age-related.
Could this be the DVLA's hidden agenda or am I just a cynical old......?
Dave.
Location: Sheffield
I don't think that there's any risk of the supply of age-related registrations.
Many authorities issued few, if any, four-digit, two-letter or three-digit, three letter registrations.
I rather fancy making a pair - the current rebuild project having 4985 VJ, alongside VJ 4985 on my existing RP would look quite cool!
Location: Herefordshire, with an "E" not a "T".
Sir Philip Greed seems to have done ok by having quite a large amount of influence on the UK and his UK ex employees without contributing much into HM's coffers. I have a cold so I can't do "n's"
Sorry, just a miserable old.......
Dave.
Location: Sheffield
DVLA GAVE IT AN AGE RELATED NUMBER THEN CANCEL IT 2 YEARS LATER SAYING IT NEED TO HAVE A Q NUMBER.
Austin 8 open top tourer.. rebuilt and drives well For Sale (1946)£3500 OR OFFER
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C783930
This vehicle is a real eye catcher and a fun car in good running order. Built from a 1946 year four door saloon using all the original chassis,engine,gearbox,steering box and axles. DVLA originally gave it an age related plate as it was registered for two years as a tourer, now they have decided that it should be a Q plate. Converted to 12 volt with an old fashioned type claxon fitted. Old tax discs and correspondence plus spares included in the sale....Quick sale, Space required.
Location: Eaqst Sussex
I wonder what triggered the DVLA to re-classify this vehicle?
I rather assumed that once you were on the road and registered, that was the end of it.
Simon
Location: On a hill in Wiltshire
[quote="Slack Alice" Simon]I wonder what triggered the DVLA to re-classify this vehicle?
I rather assumed that once you were on the road and registered, that was the end of it.
Simon[/quote]
That's what the Bugatti people thought!
Location: Derby
Location: East Sussex
[quote="Slack Alice" Simon]I wonder what triggered the DVLA to re-classify this vehicle?
I rather assumed that once you were on the road and registered, that was the end of it.
Simon[/quote]
Seems that most cars that have their V5C cancelled as a result of the owner wanting to sell the registration. Wanting to do this triggers an inspection of the car, anything not quite right 8 points wise means that not only can you not transfer the plate, but that you lose the right to the existing registration too.
If that was the case with this car, the inspector may have judged that the Austin Eight is a monocoque vehicle, so cutting the roof off means it has a modified chassis which equals a Q plate -usually only granted after passing a BIVA test.
Location: N W Kent
Location: N W Kent
Interesting ... Perhaps yours have somehow slipped the net! Over the years I have had numerous cars with re-issued age-related numbers - a quick count makes it eight, but I think I have missed a couple! - and they have all been issued on a non-transferable basis(the earliest I can recall dates back to the mid-1980s). So perhaps this Austin Eight may have also slipped through with a transferable number, in which case the owner should have left well alone ...
Like a few other Austin owners trying to retain their original registration numbers( in my case HU xxxx) I was fobbed off by DVLA and given an BF xxxx number ., supposedly an age related number , but further research has revealed that BF was last issued in 1904 and was withdrawn as the county set in Dorsetshire objected to having a number plate that inferred they were Bloody fools!
I've seen lots of other BF xxxx numbers recently now on Austin 7's and wonder if DVLA have decided Austin enthusiasts are all Bloody Fools!
"Under the Motor Car Act, 1903 the Local Government Board allocated BF to Dorsetshire. These letters did not find favour with some local motorists( ed : as BF was regarded as a short version of Bloody Fool!) and representations were made by the Dorset Automobile Association in 1903, the County Council applied for a change, which was permitted and by an LGB Order of 27/12/04 the mark FX was assigned.
The order did not require existing marks to be changed, but it provided that the owner could have the mark FX substituted for BF on giving notice to the county council.The last BF registration originally alloted was BF 162 on 20Dec 1994.
42 car owners and 41 motorcycle owners did not change their registration letters, but any remaining on the roads on 1/1/1921 were re-registered with FX numbers, since BF was not allocated under the Roads Act 1920 "
The above information quoted from Philip Riden's useful booklet "How to trace the History of Your Car" published in 1991.
I think I might write again to DVLA and claim my "legal" right to get an FX number, quoting the Dorsetshire precedent!
No doubt the HU xxxx I should have been allocated will now be sold for £1500? In the regular DVLA auction?as they say follow the money.
Bill G
Sent from my iPhone
Location: ScottishBorder
They only sell previously unallocated numbers
Has anyone been through the re-registration process recently with a standard car/project that has no paper evidence?
Location: Fife
Hi Ian
I knew it was an early Bristol number and wrote to the City Museums who hold some incomplete registration records.
They kindly supplied me with a copy of a receipt showing the HUxxxx vehicle record being transferred to Argyllshire , where the car was purchased/taxed by the owner I bought it from, Along with a 1976 Tax disc and MOT. But DVLA said I had not linked the 1925registration to the 1925 chassis no!
I asked them how many 1925 HU cars were transferred from Bristol to Argyll in 1976!!!!!!!! There seems to be no way to appeal either , so I gave up and accepted an age related BF( aka Dorsetshire Bloody Fool) number which now appear regularly on Austins and even on Bugatti's . What irony!
If it had been a BG number then I would have been happy!
Regards
Bill G
Location: Scottish Border
Classic Car Weekly
DVLA 'SWAMPED' BY
BARN FIND ENQUIRIES
Barn finds are increasingly common - but some might hide sinister pasts
leading group of experts are calling on the DVLA to do more about barn find-related car crime.
The IAATI says it's currently too easy for criminals to steal cars, and have them re-registered as barn finds with the DVLA.
The institute reports that criminals are stealing classics and with minimal questioning from the DVLA, can get the car re-registered.
Communications director Dr Ken German says: 'There's been a lot of barn finds being pumped through the DVLA's enquiry office lately. Unfortunately, the system is being abused by thieves. It's becoming far too easy to have stolen cars reregistered as barn finds. Most of the time, if you have a registration for it you will probably get an age-related numberplate for the car. 'All the things the DVLA are supposed to check seemingly aren't getting checked. It appears as long as someone has an old buff log book, they can get the forms through.
The DVLA has fought back against the criticisms, stating that although situations like this may happen, it's not a common occurrence. David Whitbread, media relations officer for the DVLA, says: 'We've not seen any rise in these situations - in fact, we haven't seen much change in tlie number of registration of barn finds.
Auction analyst Richard Hudson Evans thinks it's common sense that some barn finds aren't legitimate. He says: I am amazed they keep coming out the woodwork. Where do they all keep coming from? Interestingly, many so-called barn finds end up making serious money because they're popular at the moment. A lot of people like the idea of themselves being the first people to restore a car.
Silverstone auctions have had big success with barn finds, even selling £1 million-worth of them at its sale at the 2014 Lancaster Insurance Classic Motor Show.
Bosses from the company insist
that these types of cars go through stringent checks to ensure they don't have a chequered past. A spokesperson says: "All of our cars go through vigorous vetting
including HPI checks.
HOW TO REGISTER A BARN FIND
It must be built from genuine
period components from more
than one vehicle, all over 25 years old and of the same specification.
The appropriate vehicle owners' club for the vehicle must inspect the vehicle and confirm in writing that it has been inspected, is a true reflection of the marque, and is comprised of genuine period components all over 25 years old.
They must also give manufacture dates for the major components.
The DVLA will assign an agerelated registration number to
the vehf'de based on the youngest component used.
It must be a true reflection of
the marque.
Location: South London
September the 23rd, now the first anniversary of the DVLA/FBHVC meeting concerning age related registration etc. No progress reported from either concern apparently. Anyone know otherwise?
Dave.
Location: Sheffield
Location: East Sussex
According to issue 4/2016 of the FBHVC newsletter,progress relating to new bodies on original chassis in order to obtain an age related registration number has been zero. We are advised by FBHVC to remain patient (again).
Dave.
Location: Sheffield
Location: Berkshire
Location: Esst Sussex