I am looking for information on chain driven Motorcycle engined Austin 7 chassis specials. I was in the process of building a racing sidecar outfit powered by a Redditch Bullet engine but after a pretty big off riding is a bit of an issue. I would like to use the engine for my other passion, car Hillclimbing and after seeing a few pics on line of the Kentish built Baldock special I would like to see how viable this would be and if it has been done by others.

Location: Melbourne Australia

Rob Beck (Who used to post on here)and Nick Allen are two that have built specials in the uk.I know of another being built using a twin supercharged JAP unit with a bevel box made from a rear axle centre and GN style transmission,I have no photos though.

Get hold of a copy of John Bateman's book "Vintage Specials". It features articles on the JAP engined 'Grannie' which has Austin Seven chassis rails in its first iteration and several other JAP and Ariel engine cars. If you want to go over the top in future there is even an Austin/Ford with a 3.3litre Ford Model A engine in an Austin chassis with final drive chains.

Grannie (which has a transverse engine, Austin gearbox and final drive) and the French BAC engined special (also with Austin final drive) built by Rob Beck are still being run in historic events over here as is the ADRO Special with a side valve JAP engine in (I think) an Austin chassis and chain final drive.

Location: South-East Surrey

Sound advice from Julian. As you may know, quite a few early 500cc formula cars used A7 chassis and chain drive although some folk retained shaft drive - Arthur Mallock springs to mind. Perhaps you have already looked here

http://www.500race.org

under "marques"?

Regards,
Stuart

Cheers for the above information. It certainly gives me plenty to search out. Stuart my initial research on this topic started at 500race.org, it is an amazing resource. My initial plan was to build a period style space frame special but log booking becomes an issue as you are building an older style vehicle that has to be logbooked as a modern formula Libre with modern hp etc... Building a tribute car to something raced in the day certainly makes the process a lot easier.

Austin in the shed, what is a GN style transmission?

Location: Melbourne Australia

This is a GN/Frazer Nash chassis with chain drive transmission shown:

Now you're talking this is the most interesting thread that has been on here for months! :)
Hopefully picking up my finished bevel box on Friday.

Location: G

Gav get in touch with Warren Bonning in Melbourne through the Melb Austin 7 Club. He built a Frazer Nash chain drive as pictured above although it was powered by a Meadows. BUT he also built a very successful Austin 7 race car, and he thinks outside the square. A talk with him would be productive. Say gday from me. cheers Russell

Location: oz

My advice would be to track down a special that is reliable and works, then blatantly copy that format!
It is likely that any format you come up with will have been tried previously and if the format has fundamental problems it is better that someone else has put shed loads of time and money into it rather than you.
The JAP engine works well in an Austin 7 chassis or indeed a Morris Minor (pre-war, of course!)and there are some good examples in the VSCC to study. The JAP engine is available but at a considerable cost. You could get a very potent blown A7 engine for about half the price of the JAP.
Some people have used large Harley Davison V twins but most examples have not been successful due to cooling and vibration issues.

Location: North Yorkshire

Put Miss Bacfire in the search box and there is a link to some excellent photos on how to do it,Rob Beck's car.

GAV - A few questions:- How well have you researched your proposed special? To be eligible for Historic racing in this Country, one has to prove that something the same or very similar actually existed and raced in the past. The only motorcycle-engined specials competing here & fitted in an Austin 7 chassis post-WW2, and as far as I know prewar, were in complete, otherwise standard, cars & they weren't chain-driven. Forgive my ignorance, but I've not recalled a Redditch engine being used either - what is it? I'm aware of a Royal Enfield Bullet, is that what you mean? How old is it? Also, do you know of any space frames being used here pre-WW2? As CAMS doesn't, you'd be knocked back I'm sure. You would definitely need to check with them beforehand as to what you can produce, but completing a special, then turning up for eligibility, doesn't work if it's not kosher - an expensive mistake on rejection. If you're happy to compete against other post-war cars, I have to disappoint you and say you'd be wasting your time. In the 50s, often Austin Seven specials (and they were complete cars similar to UK's 750 formula) were lumped in to race & hillclimb against post-war 500cc specials and believe me the latter, apart from Bruce Walton's, were rarely dominant. And be reminded the Sevens were all unblown, yet they could still hold their end up - and more importantly were more reliable. The new JAP engines made both in the UK and in Adelaide can certainly be made to go, but at more than double the cost of a blown Austin 7 engine. I'd suggest you turn up to the 40th annual Historic Winton meeting on last weekend in May, and see for yourself how well A7 specials can compete without space frames or m/cycle engines or chain drives. Good Luck, Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Euroa, Victoria

Are you a member of HMRAV? If so I expect you will know about Historic Winton.

Bill's advice is sound but if you are still keen look at the posting May 4, 2012

"Can you tell what it is yet?"

May help if you look at joining the Austin 7 Club in Melbourne, details on the Club webpage-

http://www.austin7club.org/

Tony.

Cheers for your reply Bill. This post besides a bit of trolling around on the internet is the beginning of my research. The engine I have built is a 1955 Royal Enfield Bullet engine. Redditch refers to it being English as opposed to the later Indian built engines. My main inquirie on here was to see if it had been done before so that I had some proof something similar had been done in the past. I agree that trying to compete against other post war cars that have had years and years of development is an extremely difficult task. I currently compete in the group N under 2 litre class in the state Hillclimb championship in a Hillman Hunter. Trying to compete against Minis, Cortinas, Escorts etc which have had massive amounts of research and development all over the world while being a backyard bodger is extremely difficult.

I appreciate your comments and definitely won't be turning a spanner until I have spoken to an eligibility officer. I've been down that path before and it can be a frustrating and educational experience Will definitely be at Historic Winton (haven't missed one for years) with my tape measure and camera.

Location: Melbourne Australia

Without being unkind, I think a decent Austin 7 engined special will be more exciting than one fitted with a Royal Enfield Bullet?

Malcolm I agree. It is more a matter of having the engine and gearbox sitting on the bench and the Austin 7 chassis seems to be something that comes up on the used market often enough and has a huge enthusiast group with endless amounts of knowledge. The sensible option would be to buy a ready built tested and logbooked Austin 7 and is most probably the path I will go down but I thought it might be worth asking the question.

Location: Melbourne Australia

Gav - I also agree with Malcolm, but I'm biased! However,at the risk of turning you away from Sevens, perhaps your best bet would be to build a replica of a post-war 500cc spaced-frame special and utilise the Bullet engine in that. The use of an Austin 7 chassis would only mean more weight and have no strength in your effort to make the special more "authentic". And once you've utilised chain drive, I believe anything such, described as "Austin 7", would be rejected. If you wish to examine the Austin Sevens at Winton, you'll find them gathered in the pit garages adjacent to the extra track loop, down past the trailer park. I'm sure you'll find the owners very helpful & informative. Again, Good Luck. Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Euroa, Victoria

Hello gav
Clive lones raced Morgan 3 wheelers in the 20s & 30s taking
Over thirty class records at brooklands. After the war he concentrated
On 500cc hillclimbing-sprints in a 4 wheeler car called "tiger cat" which in time
Was developed into "tiger kitten". This very competitive little homemade car was powered
By a jap 500cc speedway engine and gave the coopers etc a run for there money!

The car used a Morgan front end ,Austin 3 speed box and a slightly cut down back axle.
All of this was built on an inverted Austin 7 swb chassis !!!!

Location: Cotswolds

Tiger Kitten...

I built this a few years ago, having been inspired by a car built by Frank Bacon and his man Greenwood in 1946 from Rudge engine, Austin 7 chassis and axles and Triumph steering. Affectionately christened RATBAG (Rudge, Austin, Triumph, Bacon and Greenwood). Sadly I broke it first time out at Wiscombe hillclimb in 2009 and it is still in the shed awaiting repairs. I keep saying this year I'll get it going again. Maybe THIS is the year! It made all the right noises and was suitably frightening to drive. (Hope the photos comes out. This is my first attempt at this.)

Wow Rob!!! That looks amazing. Would love to see more pics. How have you connected the engine to the tailshaft?

Location: Melbourne Australia

Ah well that was the problem. We tried to mate the engine to a superlight austin flywheel clutch assembly in the back half of a chopped off Austin crankcase. The benefit of this was that we could then use austin gearbox, prop, and rear axle. Unfortunately the modded splined centre we fitted to the flywheel proved not to be man-enough and it twisted and moved on the crankpin jamming against the bellhousing thus seizing the engine solid. I haven't got many photos of it. (I think I was having too much fun driving it up and down own track 'training' for Wiscombe Park!!) One more attached of it having failed at Wiscombe. 'Bodywork' was fitted to appease the scrutineers! I'll try and get out there and take a few more detail shots. It might even encourage me to bolt it all back together. Cheers

This is a great thread, and if you'll pardon a non A7 diversion:

Nash and Godfrey hated cogs,
Built a car with chains and dogs.
Would it work, I wonder, if
it were fitted with a diff?

Location: Richmond, Texas, USA

Location: Ilkley

Hi All,

My ears were burning. Here are some vids.

Gav,

There are lots of photos of the build in my photobucket album and plenty more of the car at VSCC events. Search "austin BAC" "MISS BACFIRE" and "MISS BACKFIRE" the subtly of the play on the name of the engine maker is often missed.

I would point out the engine is a mere 1900cc and therefore barely classifiable as a motorbike engine despite the fact that is where it once belonged.

Last year the engine tore the bevel box apart at Wiscombe. I have since made a new shaft and hub for the bevel box, this is a 1 1/4" solid shaft with a 3/8" square key and split hubs very similar to a GN counter shaft.

Regards

Rob