HVA have a bran find Speedy listed for their auction on 7th July 2016, reg looks like CMF 842

are you sure john,

theres nothing on there site.

tony

Location: huncote on the pig

There is a photo of the Speedy and a similar Chummy barn find on HVA's advert in the June Automobile

CMF 842 is on the chassis register - Chassis Number 208185, Car Number AEK 8. The chassis register suggests an original registration date of November 1934, however the CMF Middlesex registration wasn't issued until May 1935 starting with CMF 1 and ending in September 1935 with CMF 999 - this would suggest an August / September 1935 registration date for the Speedy. Notes from 2013 on the chassis register say " Martin Baker info - not seen for many years! "

Wyatt would suggest a build date of December 1934 / January 1935 for chassis 208185.

It's not on the DVLA database, so presumably it's been off the road and not taxed since at least the late 1970's / early 1980's.

Jeff.

Location: Almost but not quite, the far North East of England

fabulous news!
Can anyone with Automobile post a pic - if its an advert nobody will mind if further copied. Going to start assembling the speedy photos now....

I hope the photo is better than the preview, there was a bit more of the front end in the photo in my photobucket site. Quality of the shot wasn't that good anyway in the advert but looks like a lot of work for someone, albeit worthwhile. The pixelation may be making the corrosion look worse. No details as to what bits and pieces come with the car and not sure what's on the bonnet, possibly the spare wheel cover and some trim. Sad that the owner or anyone for that matter could let a car get into this state.

Location: Ferring, West Sussex

Let's be clear.
This doesn't look like a barn find. It looks like a car that has been dismantled and hastily put back together to be photographed in the anticipation that the words "barn find" will attract publicity and raise the sale price.
Grump over, a genuine Speedy, however found, is a great opportunity and I look forward to reading more.

Charles.

I'm glad to see that the full sized photo of the Speedy finally appeared! I'm not sure whether HVA print a Catalogue, might phone and enquire today as there is at least another two or three A7s mentioned including a 'Chummy Barn Find' and '1930 Austin 7 TT' (I thought they'd be 'Ulsters' or EA Sports by then) and whether it's the same car, an 'Ulster' is mentioned below the illustrations. I would thoroughly recommend this month's issue of The Automobile as it's a cracker (after one or two issues in the doldrums, as far as I'm concerned). I would love to show a photo of a 'Chummy Railcar' but fear breaching their copyright. I don't think HVA will object to my promoting their auction.

Location: Ferring, West Sussex

hi james,

HVA do a very glossy cataloge, usually posted two weeks before the auction.

normally all cars are pictured.

its good to see these sort of cars come to the market.

but after taking a reality pill, the speedy isnt shown complete, plenty look missing and damaged. if the dials are missing who has them for sale.

not a cheap build, if its done properly.

tony.

Location: huncote on the pig

Tony, but it does appear to be a genuine Speedy and with the current value of cars like these, its become economic to remanufacture smaller missing parts. Id be more concerned that the engine was still correct and complete.

If it's a genuine speedy, the value should depend on the correct running gear. Does it have it's sports engine still etc ? I agree with the earlier post that it's not a barn find at all. That term is used too much these days to describe loosely cobbled together piles of bits.

I agree the term barn find is well over used. But it's bount to if it adds value, that's life.

And I agree the heart of a sports car is the engine. The chassis is the part that gives it originality status. Only because that's what the reg number is related to.

What I'm saying is there are things that should be considered if anyone is looking to buy and restore it. It's the thing we should all look at before restoring any car.

I say this because of the number of people who come to me after buying a car that have rear partsmissing from it. Thinking they have got a bargain. Then crapping them selves when they are told how much a pair of nippy door locks sell for.

These are my tips for buying any car.

Work out what it's worth when it's finished, (start at the end and work backwards).
Then you can work out what it will cost to restore it sensibly, and replace all those rear missing parts.
After doing all this you will find out two things.

A rough price to what you should pay in the first place.
And second how much you will loose by restoring it. (This can be a larger amount for some than it is for other). Because you only get one chance in life to restore a speedy.

This is why I sed about taking a reality pill.

So come on first step what do you think it will be worth fully restored, with ALL the correct parts on it.

£40,000
£50,000

Remember when most people are told an original Ulster is worth £50,000 they gasp. Yet alone fall over when told blood orange is worth £100,000

Tony

Location: HUNCOTE on the pig

I'm increasingly intrigued by the forcing of the economic model onto experienced enthusiast restorers who don't necessarily value their time as anything other than love and interest. Reading an article about the value of SLs was interesting - largely given by £180 an hour German restoration costs!

As cars move from those who are owner-servicer-constructor-engineers to those who have less skills and equipment, the potential costs rise hugely. You have to be time rich even just to learn new skills if you haven't grown up with 'it' in your blood.

The only thing that is going to be testable in the short term - presumably there have been no public Speedy sales recently - is what do we think this 'find' will actually go for?!

Will be interesting to see the catalogue text in due course to see to know a few more of the variables.

I have been involved in the rebuild of one Speedy but since that was in 1968 the experience may not be entirely relevant. What I do recall is that it was sold eventually for roughly twice the cost at the time of an equivalent Nippy.

Speedy restoration has its problems. To give a clue, I think I recall that the John Heath partnership produced at least one Speedy body and maybe even a Type 65 body or two. Making a new one isn't necessarily easier than repairing an old one but I seem to remember the Speedy body being priced at circa 4x the same concern's Chummy body.

Maybe someone with a better memory than mine can be more specific.

Tony's advice to decide how much you're prepared to lose, if you are obliged to sell once the restoration is finished, is profound. There are motor cars (and houses!) where some of us will not live long enough to break even! We still do it, though.....

Regards,
Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Talking about money is always profound, but necessary to work out A to B to C.

Location: HUNCOTE on the pig

This is the kind of project I might undertake if I still lived in the UK.
I wouldn't, within reason, be too concerned about costs, this would be my hobby and my time is therefore free.
What it might be worth when finished, or maybe when I would be finished, would be of concern to my heirs and successors. But it would certainly be worth more than if my hobby had been Golf, say!

I shall now go back to fettling my Lotuses.

Location: Richmond, Texas

I don't like talking about the value of cars but as a qualified valuer Tony has done what is known in the profession as a 'residual valuation'. In my working career I was often asked to comment on property renovation projects and my advice sometimes did not go down well!
I think it all boils down to whether you are restoring a car for your own use and long term ownership, or whether you are doing it with a view to making a quick profit.
In the former case I would take on a project even though the cost of the restoration could be higher than the value of the car when it is finished. At the end of the day you will have years of enjoyment and satisfaction (hopefully!) and when the time comes the car should be worth more than you have shelled out on it.
Normally, if you look back ten years, whatever you spent on something looks quite modest.
And if someone out there wants a Speedy to restore, how long might you wait for another to come along?
It is reasonable to assume that whoever buys the car would want to have it correct in every possible way, otherwise they might as well buy an Ulsteroid special.

A replica Speedy would make a change from replica Ulsters. It wouldn't be much more difficult than an Ulster, and the body would be easier to weld as it is made of steel.
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

I agree with Stuart & Malcom

37 years ago father bought a rough RP, ran it till a conrod came out of the crankcase and started a rebuild. Nearly 10 years after he started, after going through the running gear and realising he couldn't do the rusty bodywork so he paid someone else to finish it off. He paid more than the car was then worth to have it finished.

21 years ago I started on a bitza RL saloon. 15 years ago I got to the same point but my bodywork was bent rather than rusty. I recall spending close to 5K with a specialist to finish it (but I did trim in leather!). Barely the value of the car at the time.

Both cars are still here with me now. Being enjoyed. I've grown up with one car (I was 3 months old when It was bought). The other is indirectly the reason I am married. Both have been in regular use baring for significant breakdowns since they were finished.

I now have a chummy in a similar state that father bought in 1996. Mechanically complete needing the body sorting and finishing off. Guess what I'm going to do?. Yes, pay someone a lot of money to sort the chummy for me.

There is more to life than money. And you cant take it with you when you are dead!

As noted earlier, where are you going to find another?

Location: Stretham, Ely

I suppose the true value will be shown by the final bid at the sale. I will be very interested to see what it makes.

Location: Stretham, Ely

Points of interest:
Speedy no.1 didn't change hands in 2009. The owner preferred to keep it and still has it.
One owner was recently offered £40k for his.
There are two replicas; one finished and will be at Beaulieu this year and the other, in Japan, still under construction.
Also Speedy bodies are aluminium with steel wings and bonnet.
Still very exciting that there may now be 17 Speedys.

Location: Beautiful North Hampshire

Marginally better / slightly clearer photo of the Speedy just posted on Herefordshire Auctions Facebook page together with the 'Barn Find' 1927 Chummy.

The '1930 Austin Seven TT' also mentioned above as being featured in the auction is on the Chassis Register as a 1931 registered Ulster Rep Special - HVA's estimate being £17,000 to £19,000.





Jeff.

Location: Almost but not quite, the far North East of England

looks like the owner only had one tin of paint...

hi jonE,

is that rust coloured or bashed and battered colour

Location: huncote on the pig

more photos up!

http://www.hvauctions.com/Motor_details.php?motor=159_05.jpg&pid=159&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hvauctions.com%2Fmotor_list.php

"The Speedy comes with some of its instruments, including the almost impossible to find speedometer/rev-counter"

oooh - gonna be a good auction!

As with the Boat Tailed car the DVLA hurdle must be jumped with the Speedy. No documents is not a good start.

The boattail has half a chance of getting A or even its original number back. As it had an old tax disc with it.

The speedy will probably be impossible to get its original reg back. The next owner will have to cross his fingers for an age related number. 1950s numbers I think?

Tony.

Location: HUNCOTE on the pig

You can't get to retain an old registration number, on the
Strength of an old Tax disc , or even an old MOT ( those that do not have a Vin or ch no on it). You need the logbook or some other actual period documentation which ties the chassis no to the registration no.

I know !!! Even though I recently had the car, Club inspected , had an 1977 MOT and tax disc, plus a receipt from the original authority that all the car's reg files had been transferred to the relevant authority in Scotland. DVLA said I had not "proved the link between the chassis and the reg no " . The Manager I spoke to said she was" powerless as that was a strictly observed rule"

Barn finds with NO Paperwork will struggle to save their registration numbers IMHO. Age related for them I think!

Regards

Bill G

Older and wiser after weeks of dealing with DVLA

Location: Scottish Border

Hi bill,

Won't argue, as I can't be arsed.

Also the DVLA don't know left from right at the momment.

I've had several dealings with them recently. Even conformation with managers. And they still don't do what they suggest.

They have asked for old tax discs, mots etc. But still it don't meen they will give what they suggest.

The boat tail is tricky as austin didn't stamp the chassis number on the chassis. Only the bulkhead plates.

So the DVLA won't find anything on the chassis anyway.

Tony.

Location: HUNCOTE on the pig

PS I should have added that if your original Registration Authority had archived its registration records to a county Museums Service, or to the Kithead Trust you might be able to prove the link between ch no and reg no.

But that's a Postcode Lottery as only fraction of them did that.

Bill G

Location: Scottish Border

If I had money I would buy it, and be quite happy to pay over the cost of a complete restored car! It is substantially complete, reasonably unadulterated, and where else will you find a time warp Speedy to restore. Having said that I have the skills to restore it without needing to farm out the work, and I would not want a car restored by others. I also don't get quite so hung up on registration numbers as most.

Location: Auckland NZ

I shall be at the auction on Thursday as I am also interested in the bicycles.

HVA have confirmed that one can view the bikes and cars during the Automobilia auction. I have no interest in sitting through the first 900+ lots !!

On a different subject, the 750MC are to congratulated on a superb rally at Beaulieu yesterday. A wonderful range of cars + the display of racers.
Thanks to all.

Location: Melton Mowbray

Location: huncote on the pig

Tony

It is mentioned in this document when the chassis number was on the chassis.

http://a7ca.org/downloads/QuoteThisNumber.pdf

Location: Dorset

Location: HUNCOTE on the pig

Hi Tony

I was is not my intention to tell you that you are wrong or that I have greater knowledge. I was just pointing to the only document I am aware of which talks through the chassis number locations, which I thought John may also have read, as it mentions that in the early 30's it was stamped behind the engine. As your question was "were did you get this from".

I suppose I thought your reply might be "I had forgotten about that document" but I suppose you are now saying you are aware of that document of course but it is not 100% correct.

Not to worry, let see what happens at this auction!!!

Location: Dorset

Hi Douglas,

No harm ment, that's why I put the smiley face on.

Must admit, I rearly read a book. Being a bit thick. And lack of time of course.

That may even be never read a book.

All my knowledge is from, the cars and parts that have past through my hands.

The hands on knowledge, is far more accurate than anything that's been put into print.

If you are there Thursday, it could be well worth the entertainment value on its own.

Tony.

Location: HUNCOTE on the pig

come to think of it, if you are going, Chris or others, can you perhaps take a video of the progression of that lot on your phone and upload it to youtube? I guarantee it will get hits!!

make of it what you will.

the speedy sold for £12k plus fees.

the chummy remains sold for £2k plus fees.

tony

Location: huncote on the pig

gosh.

so, of those future owners who expressed a preference for gnarly time-consuming restorations, boat-tails are 33% more desirable than Speedies. (Oops sorry; forgot that SPARE scalloped crankcase value to take off the purchase price...)


so did the Chummy actually have a chassis? Difficult to tell from their photos...

Does anyone know who bought the Speedy? Seems like a good price.

Nice to know for the Speedy Register.

Martin (Speedy Register Registrar)

Location: Beautiful North Hampshire

the new owner was the under bidder on the boattail.

just a quess, but i dont think he really seems to know what he has actually bought

would have liked to have had a bid myself, but i have other commitments.

when i got home, tracy replied. i thought you would have had a go at that price.

if i had bought it, and sed to here we now own a speedy. the reply would have been, were the hell is that going to go

tony.

Location: huncote on the pig