The term box saloon is much used. I always presumed it was to distinguish the two 1934 models (RP and "streamlined" Ruby) but naturally extended to RN. These cars are distinctly box shaped. But it seems to be used for all saloons, esp the steel ones.

Does anyone recall when the term came into wide use? Has it always been widely applied to all saloons? What is considered most appropriate?


Similarly, the distinctions RP etc were not common decades ago. A couple of years ago it was established that usage came through Seven club scribes adopting.

Location: Auckland, NZ

When I first became involved with Austin Sevens in 1972, hardly anyone (?no-one) knew of, let alone used the model letter codes that are so familiar now.

A7 saloons seemed to be divided into "Top Hat" (R, RK and derivatives), possibly qualified by "wide door" for later cars; "Box saloon" (RL to RP,often sub-divided into short and long wheelbase and "Ruby". Some true rivet counters might specify "New Ruby" for the ARR.

My personal impression is that the model letter system was re-discovered at some point in the eighties and gradually crept into general use over the next twenty years. Even now, there are uncertainties with some models - there's a current thread about AF Chummies.

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E", not a "T"!

Like you Martin I became involved with Sevens in 1972. The main models were Chummy, Box and Ruby preceeded by the year of production, which usually provided enough information. I know it wouldn't be enough now but then a '31 Box would either be a "short" or "long" chassis and a '32 Box could be either "front tank" or rarely "rear tank" etc. Sports models were always regarded with suspicion even then, at least by me!

Location: Stretham, Ely

Interestingly, Lance, I've just been looking at the Classes in this year's Beaulieu rally. Time has stood still!

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E", not a "T"!

It is good to learn new information like this in my opinion.

Along the same vein - the long awaited Factory Index Cards are now all scanned and ready for upload in the near future - these are a wealth of similarly hitherto unknown information which I have found utterly fascinating to interrogate as the proofs have come in from the archivists at Hampshire C.C.

Through the sixties and into the seventies the Beaulieu rally just entered 1927 to 1938 saloons as saloons. Up to then I just remember that the RM, RN and RP were all referred to as not surprisingly box saloons. I think the first reference to specific model codes in the Austin Seven Clubs Association magazine was 1977D with a letter regarding RN saloons. I remember attending the 1966 the Beaulieu rally in my RN saloon and not finding another car like it, hardly surprising as it had been much modified by a previous owner which included a rear tank and Ruby dashboard.

I got involved in Sevens with a late 1932 RP saloon, in 1959. The term Top Hat has been widely misapplied especially by some traders in recent years. It was used in relation to the early saloons with narrow front opening doors, and had a higher roof than the later cars, supposedly enabling the wearing of a top hat while driving. Personally I suspect that it would only be true for someone of short stature. The later vintage saloon was designated by the works as Wydoor, having wide rear opening doors with a curved edge over the rear wheel arch. The Top Hat term may not have been used by the works.
I hope this adds clarity to a bit of the story, rather than confusion!

Robert

Location: Near Cambridge, not far from Lance Sheldrick

'Top Hat' and 'wide-door' (not 'Wydoor' which was a coachbuilt version, I think by Granville Motors) were never official Austin Motor Co names. What we now refer to as R-Type and RK-Type were usually referred to as just 'saloon', or occasionally as 'coachbuilt saloon' (to differentiate from the fabric saloon). Even back in the early 1960s there was much disagreement as to whether the late Vintage (ie alloy-bodied wide-door model) should be called 'Top Hat', but everyone was in agreement that the steel saloons, short or long wheelbase, were all 'box saloons'.

I never heard my father refer to a Seven by its model letters, I'm not sure he even knew them! But if he referred to a 32 saloon, he meant a lwb car even if made in 1931. The model year, qualified by body style if necessary.
That was pretty well the practice I knew until I left the UK, only returning to Seven interest via the Internet to find people conversing in codes I still don't entirely understand.

Location: Richmond, Texas, USA