I am afraid its a sign of the times, youngsters today no matter how keen they are do not get the opportunity to actually repair things these days as most modern car components are now exchange items, so even just pulling them apart is out off the question, and even a simple job requires the use of a computer to reset the system. When I did my mechanical training we rebuilt engines,diffs and steering racks in the classroom,even simple jobs like rebuilding a starter motor or dynamo the brushes and bearings were all available from the local motor factor and a fraction of the cost of a replacement unit or even a second hand one from the breakers yard. Cars like the Austin Severn were built with DIY mechanic in mind and most maintenance jobs can be done without the use of specialist tools just a good owners handbook.Its the case with the older cars the youngsters will have to jump in at the deep end and pick it up as they go along like us olduns had to, on the up side there is a lot more information out there for them with forums like this one than we had back in the day. And on the down side by the time you get to 60 plus you have to start looking it up all over again because you have forgotten most of it!

Location: Pembrokeshire

There is a "Mens Shed" starting up near me for the benefit of the elderly and unemployed. I think it is an Aussie idea but I don't know much about it. Can anyone throw some light on the concept? I'm led to believe it is to encourage socialising and the sharing of skills so it has some potential?

Another idea I had was to tow my little aeroplane behind our Morris 1000 to a local school where we managed to get over 100 kids to sit through a little presentation over an afternoon. The Headmaster thought it was a great idea to expand their knowledge and to make a break from the norm of school life. The same Head arranged for a local forest to become a classroom during the summer so he clearly thinks 'outside the box'.

Location: Cardiff

Have a look at-

http://mensshed.org/

Tony.

Location: Malvern, Melbourne, Australia.

Is jumping in at the deep end so different to how a lot of us started?
I started that way, because I had no other choice it was that or no car at all.

My first mobile heap, was a 10 year old MG 1100 saloon I purchased in 1974- I was done having paid £45 pound for a barely road legal rot box - cost me painfully at M.O.T failure due to the rear subframe barely holding onto the floor.
I couldn't even change a wheel initially.
I think I had the car about a year before parting company.

In my case DIY maintenance began because I could barely afford to run a car never mind pay someone to repair it - necessity being the mother of invention, I started out with a 5 or 6 spanner set from Halfords, although luckily the car came with handbook and workshop manual.

I agree mentorship is highly desirable, but it is still possible to learn from hands on experience.
Approaching 60, I'm still doing it now, although granted there is a lot of help to be gained from forums like this - thank goodness for computers and the internet!

The closest most us of got to computers circa 1974/5 was seeing a so called pocket calculator in Dixons and maybe owning one of the newfangled red L.E.D digtal watches, but I digress.

My first pre war car was an Austin 10 Lichfield (purchased 1980) for which very few of my thus far accumulated tools fitted, so had to start from scratch buying tools and books over a period of time to suit and going without other things to pay for same.

I'm sure plenty of us here have similar tales.
The biggest hindrance to getting started now for youngsters is perhaps the initial outlay. It may mean starting out with something more modern and working your way up
but was it ever any different?

Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Speaking as a 24 year old who had an A35 which I had restored as my first car, I have some perspective on the issue. It's true that I'm almost certainly as involved as I am through my dad's activities with classic cars (including Sevens) but I am by no means alone. I know many people within my age range (and younger) both male and female, restoring, running and maintaining classic cars of all ages and varieties. There are a lot of us out there and I know plenty of people within this community interested in owning a Seven, but the one problem that always comes up time and again is cost. I don't think it's a lack of willing or even a lack of skills. In recent years Sevens have been advertised (even in rough condition) at prices that I would definitely consider (with university debt in mind and no prospect of home ownership or sustainable renting any time soon!) unobtainable. Even dodgy specials go for a pretty high price. Post-war classics such as the A30/35 offer a much more affordable route into ownership, and I think this is where the issue lies.

Location: Herefordshire

Isn't it also the case that a 7 simply doesn't offer everyday motoring to the 20 something? I doubt there are many 7 owners who consider the 7 their main car. It is therefore a second car to most and immediately becomes the sort of thing most think about after the first car (usually a 25 year old small hatchback, today's 20 something transport equivalent to their parents and grandparents 7) and the house etc etc.
I take the view that there will always be 'old boys who know'. There may be fewer in the future but they will always be around, just not the same ones of course.
In the beekeeping world, with 20 years experience and a raft of trendy beginners, I am suddenly finding myself, at the ripe old age of 51, becoming just such a beast.
Andy B

Dave's being too modest. I bought "Basil" the A35 to break for parts, but Dave wouldn't let me. Aged 17, in 13 weeks he taught himself the basics of welding, spraying and general mechanic-ing. For six years, the car's been his daily transport and has only recently been "stopped" for another heavy overhaul.

Location: Herefordshire, with an "E", not a "T"!

Lovely job!

Yes, looks great! Well done.

Interesting to look back through the early Association mag's, article content and average age of the members profiled is a study, the same is true of 750 MC bulletins. So what has changed, well first some of those people are still involved today, it would be good to hear from one or two of you about why you were first drawn to sevens and at what age. Personally I think the big thing that has altered is not only cost, which obviously will be a factor today, but exposure. Modern youngsters unless through a family member are just not exposed to cars like ours and I find generally most have a big misconception about them, but once introduced many find, the sporting derivatives in particular cool...Thinking back to the 50's and 60's Sevens were commonly uni hacks and a way to get involved in cheap sporting events, so plenty of exposure available to young men. My (much) younger brother is a technology tutor at a secondary school here in NZ, he has borrowed my cars for students to study when working on vehicle design evolution projects. I was not precious about my car allowing the kids to crawl all over it hear it run, get rides around the school grounds. They all absolutely loved it! we need to make our cars more accessible and try not to be too stuffy or unapproachable, I use my cars regularly and am often approached for the selfie. I always make time for this and offer the chance for people to sit in the car, especially the youngsters, love seeing the delight and surprise when they press the horn button and hear the Rist blast. Within the VARNZ we are looking at initiatives that may help spread the knowledge base, holding workshops and launching a special builders network. Unfortunately this will only be preaching to the converted, but it is a hopefully a step in the right direction. I would welcome hearing others thoughts, ideas and suggestions.

Location: Auckland NZ

An interesting read and nice to hear there are some other younger owners out there.

I bought my Austin 7 on my 27th birthday a few months ago (it wasn't a birthday present though) and have been enjoying ownership so far. I am fairly well versed in mechanical work, having done some engine swaps and rebuilds on a few cars but the Austin is indeed a whole new experience. For example I have convinced myself that my clutch is not operating correctly (I think the pressure plate is worn) and ordinarily in any of my other cars I would just buy a new clutch kit and fit it, but in the Austin world it isn't that simple, I need to find a way of repairing what I have. It is a challenge I do enjoy.

I am glad I bought a 7 which is a road worthy project as I get great enjoyment from driving it on nice days, it counters the tedium of fault finding and fixing. It is by no means my only transport though, I am spoiled with choice of 4 other vehicles to use, all of which have their own merits and pitfalls!

I'd love to come along and meet some fellow owners at some point!

Location: Bristol

George - off the subject but you do know there is a local club to you?
Bristol Austin 7 Club
http://www.ba7c.org/

Location: Horley

George I seem to remember that the clutch pedal was no longer attached to the cross shaft when your friend towed your Seven on to my drive earlier this year.
I also seem to remember I gave you hints and tips how to drive without a clutch as a short term remedy..
There are many people in the Bristol Club who will make you most welcome and offer help.

Location: Wessex

George, If you have not done so already, join the BA7C. Then go along to a committee meeting and jump straight in at the deep end and volunteer to fill one of the vacant posts on the committee, get out to lots of club events, you'll soon get all the help and advice you will ever need.

Location: Moonraker County

Yes indeed, I have applied to join but heard nothing back, I need to chase it up!

Location: Bristol

Indeed, I managed to fix that issue and got the pedal clamped onto the cross shaft correctly. The reason I think I need a new pressure plate on the clutch is because the clutch goes from fully engaged to fully disengaged with only about 1mm of travel on the pedal. I'm sure there should be more travel but have not driven another austin to compare it to.

Location: Bristol

Regarding 'new blood' our son made this movie of his rebuilding an Ebay Triumph Spitfire engine for his car. Watch it with the sound turned up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daVDrGsaDME

Having said that he cannot yet see beyond the humourous aspect of my A7 exploits...

Location: Fishbourne near Chichester

Well done that man!

I have watched this numerous time over the last few years Michael - how amazing that it is your son's work! Brilliant piece!

Withe reference to "Hall of the mountain king" - my father would stand on the wall outside our home, when we were children, conducting to this on an LP with all the windows open. As children we thought this absolutely wonderful, as teenagers, not. Now as adults we wish he was still able to do it!!

Here are some pictures of our Chummy on the Trollstigen, Grieg's music filled my head that day!

Pleased you liked it and proud parents we are! He's yet to find another subject for a similar treatment. My rebuilding of old boats just takes too long. He is currently making a furnace for casting small items in brass and gunmetal, at least something has passed down a generation. Anyone need anything simple?

I never inspired him by conducting to LPs of the classics but he was moved by 'The Tears of Clown' sung by his father in a Corfu taverna some years ago. By 'moved' I mean...

Epic pass, reminds me of boiling(?) the break fluid in an old MK I Zephyr going down the Stelvio many years ago, couldn't understand why it wouldn't roll on downhill until it cooled down.

Location: Fishbourne near Chichester

Great stuff - I have been up and over the Stelvio in the Pearl Cabriolet - mostly first gear all the the way up and then all the way down the other side. One of my favourites.

Let us know when he has another project complete, it will be compelling for sure!

Michael, that video is excellent.

Location: Moonraker County

I have had the A7 for 6 months now and have yet to address a 'hill'. Keeping to the coastal flatlands!

Location: Fishbourne near Chichester

Hi Jon E

Things are totally changed from 50 years ago. Many became involved in old car maintenance and repair from necessity, and developed skills.

The future of Sevens does not lie with those who have tinkered with Sevens for decades and have vast knowledge tucked away in their aged heads. It lies largely with the newcomers who often have a very different background. They have often not spent years fixing things in general, tinkering with old cars, and acquiring practical skills.

It seems that needs boil down to basic workshop and mechanical skills, and knowledge of the particular vehicle. The former is difficult to acquire from scratch on a frail car without a trail of destruction, as many old Seven parts attest.

For the latter it is important that those with experience selflessly publicise their intellectual knowledge, hard won though it may be. It may be tedious dealing with the very inexperienced, but some will progress to able and keen enthusiasts, particularly if not conned to believe they are dealing with prototype Mini Coopers, and if guided to avoid dispiriting setbacks.

In many cases those unfamiliar ask oblique questions; a reply limited exactly to the question often misses the main points to watch.

[ps. the extract you included appears too large to read. how do I reduce please?

Location: Auckland, NZ

I have a different opinion to that.

I can evidence why my opinion differs, and I am certain others will be able to as well.

My example is the Scottish Austin Seven Club, it is thriving and has many young, new to Sevens, members. I attribute this to the social camaraderie that exists amongst the members, there is no ageism, experiencism, sexism that I have ever encountered.

The Club actively encourages new members to come on runs and join in, they learn and get a wealth of support. If the car breaks down everyone comes to help - we love getting our hands dirty, having a chance to slag off each others ideas, as to why it has broken down, and then actually helping the car get back along the road.

It is important that those who have "walked the walk" with their Sevens share these experiences so that newer members realise that the cars are capable of long and exciting journeys. Breaking things, doing them incorrectly and fixing them are very basic principles in educating oneself.

I have overheard new members told many, many times "don't worry about it, just come along and if anything goes wrong we'll fix it". They do and it does get fixed.

There is no trail of destruction that I have seen in these instances, moreover a community that works together to share and help, that absolutely does rely on those who have tinkered with Sevens for 50 years with vast knowledge. I am confident that my experiences and conclusions are not solitary.

Hi Ruairidh

You seem to have managed to find some point of difference with my comments. I guess it is now an established Forum custom.

The situation you describe with the Scottish Club is ideal and meets both points; practical tuition and authoritative advice on the particular car. It is remarkable if you have lured younger persons away from todays passtimes. From experience with another make, workshops do attract interest, but we have only succeeded in attracting oldies. Fewer persons now have practical employment with skills or the urge to apply beyond. Unfortunately some exploit workshops; a way to get repairs done cheap by others, next thing going car is sold.

A common situation world wide is new persons without extensive workshop skills working largely in isolation, and relying for model info on books and the Forum. There is more info on the cars available now than ever before; but the basic skills are more lacking. These are best not learned unsupervised on a now valuable Seven with all its ¼ inch threads, although those with a thoughtful and meticulous approach can succeed. A theme of the posts above seems to be that the basic workshop and mechanical skills are a major problem.

Even for those with full workshop skills the problem of acceptable wear with auto parts and peculiar Seven parts arises, and very few sources address this. Woodrow, as most manuals, does not. Classic example is ball races. In my younger days, I wasted many then precious quid replacing diff and wheel bearings unnecessarily. (Topic for a separate post?)

Some of the above intertwines with some Grumps posts.

In the UK Sevens with their somewhat unique cute and quirky appeal seem to have much better prospects than most makes. The support of numbers, and ready availability of new parts big encouragements. The parallel networks of enjoyable secondary roads a huge bonus.

Location: Auckland, NZ

bob - here is the article as a link - you might get all of it now...
http://aus7in.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/2016-06-03-10-32-39.jpg

Thanks Jon E.

Parallels in part with local workshop experience (not Sevens).

Can anyone explain why such extracts sometimes appear normal and sometimes expanded?

The broken crank interesting. Gone at oil drilling and not a radius. And possibly from the outside inward as expected from rpm. Perhaps this is common for the thin ones. Good design if dont always fail in the same place! At least in a crankpin the bits dont end up on the road.

Location: Auckland, NZ

Ruairidh's comments definitely resonate with me. Many years ago I was lent a Nippy in which to travel from Nottingham to the SA7C rally at Doune. Ominous noises from the engine finally resulted in me halting near Moffat with what was eventually diagnosed as a broken crank.( How I hate 3-bearing engines! ) Towed the rest of the way, upon reaching the rally field word quickly spread of this major problem. Replacement crank and rods were procured, willing hands got stuck in and by the following day the car was running. Everyone thoroughly enjoyed the rebuild and it was celebrated in true Scottish fashion, leaving me to return on the Monday without incident to the East Midlands...but with a sore head!

Location: Melton Mowbray

To totally support R's and Chris' remarks, back in the Seventies whilst touring UK, Isle of Man etc over 3 months in Ian Dunford's Cabby I noticed the diff gradually getting noisier. Whilst staying with my wife's relatives in Gateshead, I'd found in a breaker's yard a shed that hadn't been opened since before WW2 (no key to the padlock, so I unscrewed the door hinges) and it was full of brand-new 7 and Big 7 parts, only a very small amount of which I could afford to buy, the rest advised to the proper people. Amongst the stuff I bought was a new cw&p, so on our Northern tour we continued with the diff getting noisier, until we came back down to the Doune Rally. There I told my troubles, was advised not to use the brand new stuff, someone volunteered a used spare cw&p they carried under their back seat & said they'd sort it out with Ian later. We (and I say we, but I didn't get much chance to participate!) started in the field with the repair after breakfast and by 2pm I'd helped the Bristol A7 club win the driving tests! At no stage then or during the tour (or in subsequent tours there) was I regaled with claims that all Sevens tip over, that many brakes shoes break, that this & that are poorly designed, or any negative, inaccurate, boring, lengthy and Off-putting claims that newcomers or uninitiated are faced with on this Forum, yet virtually nothing is done about them. The Grumpy problem is usually about someone who has given good advice then in turn chastises the enquirer for not taking it - the latter condemnation perhaps should be done direct via email, not on the Forum. The idea of policing articles before they're published is great, just not sure how it would be done. Now it's my turn to apologise for a long and boring submission! Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Euroa,Victoria

And tell some old miseries that today and they would fill nine paragraphs explaining why it couldn't possibly be true.

Location: Wessex

It is my understanding that this has been the case for some time - Ancient Rome perhaps?

How do you propose remedying this?

Have you considered changing your approach?

Bill and Chris - great to hear this, support never really leaves a person .

Last night in the Borders Country we campsite workshopped a late Ruby - full brake adjustment so that all four wheels attained lock with half pedal.

Replaced a broken half shaft key on a Tourer and reset the brakes on a Box that had apparently not worked for many years.

Owners were 31 yrs old, 85 yrs old and 65 yrs old respectively. All were encouraged by the group effort in helping them and everyone enjoyed a cider or four whilst getting stuck in - we then made home made pizzas and sat around the wood burning stove until very late, it was excellent.

Apart from the weather, it sounded great. And yes, I noticed there were more bottles than pizzas in the photos! Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Euroa,Victoria

I have nothing to do with the local workshops I mentioned. But these do contribute to the notable success of the Club cf other comparable makes. Lively annual rallies, tailored to be a interesting even for children attending, and not just reunions for oldies, assists. As does a magazine with objective and ranging technical articles apparently of particular interest to the many with a practical but limited theoretical background, including several ex mechanics.

This seems to be a serious topic and some previous and under Grumps have addressed it that way, and I have attempted the same.

The anecdotes from the past above are nostalgic but I am not sure of the relevance of some to the topic heading. They are based on camaradie amongst a group of relatively young but already established enthusiasts. With most newbies coming to these pages in the 50 over age group, the scope for the same situations in the future is more limited.

On the topic of documentation, some time ago I mentioned that a simplified guide to maintenance and lubricants would be helpful. Someone kindly replied pointing out that there is an inexpensive publication (which had not been mentioned prior nor since) but I unfortunately lost track of the reply.

I think the word lore will be the stumbling block. It is more facts which need be pursued. Lore will devolve to the pet notions of the most forceful personalities.

A good start would be a concise list of the more relevant errors in Williams, the Companion, and Woodrow etc, and qualification of some advice (ie wholesale lapping).
And correction of the common often accessed Club references. (Even the excellent and unfortunately obscure titled Charging Refresher is muddled in part). Some torque figures are seriously wrong. The info in total is vast, much repetitive, and much of the original Austin stuff very inappropriate. It requires a huge amount of reading and experience to assess.

A demarcation between standard and significantly modified is desirable. Those with supercharged models and exotic head studs may wish or need to adopt high head stud torque, unnecessary and very unsuitable for standard cars with original studs. With cars and parts now valuable and not so readily available, irreversible life reducing modifications are best not presented as more or less the norm for all cars.

All intended as a serious contribution but I guess it will be seen as just fodder for sarcasm.

Location: Auckland, NZ

Your assertion is factually incorrect Bob. Examples of long established successful practice in encouraging new blood into the fold were shared with you in good faith. If you choose not to try them out that is your choice. Personally I have no more desire to flog a dead horse, I and others have tried, so I shall leave it there on the step for you to pick up and use if you choose to.

May I suggest that you consider the following plan of action for your other desires in this area?

1. Place a new post with the heading "simplified guide to maintenance and lubricants", along with your request. this will alert readers more overtly to your hunt.

2. Be careful to pour scorn onto lore - may I gently suggest that you could shoot yourself in the foot here.

3. Take the time to go through Williams et. al. and make a list, with suitable demarcation suggestions, yourself and publish it here for others to comment on before sending it on to be published perhaps on the A7CA website or similar.

These are all serious suggestions to help you overcome the continued frustrations you have written about over the years.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Hello Ruairidh
Sounds like the SASC is a model for many other clubs.
The challenge facing some of the older clubs is deciding if they are a social club that also have Sevens or a Seven club that also have social events. The former is harder to get young blood interested in, if the social events are predominantly run and attended by the older generation.
Please don't think this is a criticism, each type serves it's purpose well but the former will sadly eventually decline!
Adrian.

Hi Adrian,

none taken.

I accept that this will happen. I consider that the ScA7C (and others!) achieves a happy balance between all the factors you mention.

The key is to be proactively including everyone and making them welcome. Allow and encourage them to organise things that appeal to them and encourage others to join in.

My own experience is that if you want to change things for the better you must be prepared to do it yourself and not expect things to just happen.

More power to your elbow Adrian!