Does this oil pump need to be reground?

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/4082jo4uxyb9ngr/AAC6ri4S9yWkZMB8wkaq8XOda

John

Location: North Norfolk

Sorry, wrong link. This one should be OK:

I would on the basis that it's scored and it is apart!

C

Charles,
for future reference, would the scoring be remmoved using a honing tool or some other method?

Regards,
Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

No, I wouldn't hone it. I'd do it on a lathe with a with a normal boring tool. 15 minute job for a chap with the right kit. Will clean up round (important), parallel (useful) and with a decent surface finish (also important)

Charles

Or you could bore it out a little more and fit 4 jet lube.
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

Thanks Charles.

Regards,
Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Thank you, Charles. Would you recommend this be done by an Austin 7 specialist or is it straightforward lathe work.




I think that's a bit ambitious for me, but thanks for the suggestion Dave

John

Not a job specifically for an A7 specialist although supporting the trades that support our hobby is always worthwhile.
Any half decent engineer with a lathe could do it.
Frankly how anyone can exist without a lathe is beyond me! (And no, that wasn't an offer!)

Charles

Ah yes, I just need a lathe -that's how it starts -Just a small toolroom lathe that's all I need. But hold on, what about when I I need to turn bigger stuff. I know, I'll get a Colchester Triumph and/or a DSG lathe; that would be an ideal machine for re-machining flywheels etc. Ah but I need to skim heads and deck blocks too. I think I'll buy a Bridgeport turret Mill. Excellent machine, but some stuff needs real super precision and finish, a Jones & Shipman universal grinder is the tool for that -hmmm, doesn't seem to be too much room for any cars in here now, I think I need to move house so I can have a bigger workshop.

I think my tongue is in my cheek on this

Location: N W Kent

Hi John,

Your engine is causing you some problems, but that's what we enjoy - after we've fixed it! There are always some marks in a removed pump, what you do depends on the number and depth. In addition to the good advice above I would suggest there's lots of good oil pump bodies around - try a second hand one if machining seems difficult to do or organise. Nobody's mentioned the vanes, if these are equally scored they can be easily cleaned up on a fine oil stone.

Of course you should try to get this as good as possible now it's in bits, but wasn't it was running OK with scores? There's only a very small pressure difference in the pump so leakage will be very small. Impecunious expediency suggests you may get away with just a vane clean up? Don't forget that the square edges of the vanes are to the bottom on reassembly.

Dave

"Impecunious expediency" an excellent philosophy.
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

This would also be my approach in this instance John.

That beautifully sums up just about every Austin Seven owner I've ever known!

Dave - Plus, ambitious ideals are always tempered by that word "compromise". Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Euroa,Victoria

Dave and Ruairidh, thanks for your advice and encouragement. I'll get there!

John

If you get stuck John you can send it to me.I need to bore some out(I bore them 1/16" over size),1/32" extra offset.You need good vanes,not rusty and I fit new springs.

It astonished me how people contrive to maintain old cars without a lathe. As with most tools, vastly less expensive than previously. I inherited a stack of Model Engineer mags from the early 30s. A treadle operated Drummond was about £UK20, maybe 6 weeks wages for a tradesman. Now can get a comparable new lathe but with feed gearbox and motor for little more than one weeks wages.

Apart from making parts directly very useful for making jigs to facilitate work. Many small items can be made in the time it takes to order or chase after.
The only disadvantage is that the hobby can become more engrossing than Sevens, Lathework has the advantage of being less expensive and much more safe!

Location: Auckland, NZ

As Charles said earlier,and now you too Bob,I don't know either how anyone can repair/rebuild a pre war car without a lathe.
The choice,cost and availability of equipment for Model engineers now the 1930's engineer could only have dreamt of,though some of the models built back then were amazing considering the basic equipment used.
Even in the early 60's the height of DIY tools would have been a Black and Decker drill with a 1/4" capacity chuck,We have come a long way since then.

I haven't got a lathe but have a hankering for one as my next 'watershed' tool. As Bob and A-i-t-Shed describe I started with a miscellaneous handful of my father and grandfathers tools. Cashing in the family's collection of Green Shield stamps got me a decent matched set of ring and open enders. Santa brought me a drill and socket set for my subsequent Christmas present. Other 'how did I manage without this tool' moments were a 4" grinderette, a vice, oxy/acetylene set, trolley jack, multimeter and torque wrench.

What were your watersheds??!!

Dave

I've not got a lathe either and I've been messing about with a mid 1930's car(s) since 1972 - not that it's been on the road much in that time, though lack of a lathe is not one of the reasons why. In my defence it has to be said I'm not an engineer and have never had any training nor experience of using a lathe though I've often fancied owning one - space, time to gain some knowledge / experience (evening classes or suchlike) and the spare cash needed to buy one have always prevented me in the past. However I'm just waiting of Mr Armstrong getting his finger out, then I can pass any machining I require over to him !!

Jeff.

Location: Almost but not quite, the far North East of England

No lathe for me either.

You don't need a lathe. Unless you are going to get into some advanced engineering, you can either buy all the stuff you need from one of our suppliers, or pay to have something made. It'll be cheaper than having many hundreds of pounds tied up in machinery.
Of course some people like making things and that's fine, but there's lots of things I'd buy before I even considered a lathe.

Thanks for the offer, Austin in the shed.

I'm going to combine 'impecunious expediency' and compromise by stripping my two dead engines and seeing which pump has the best looking body (if you know what I mean). The vanes aren't too bad and I'm sure I can clean them up as Dave suggested on an oil stone.

If I do get stuck, however, how would I get in touch? perhaps you could PM me an email or something.

Thanks again

John

I have read all the posts on this string and I am amazed that know body has asked the question. What sort of oil pressure was achieved before the strip down. Although I agree that once apart it is easy enough to do. What is wrong with the old adage. If it's not broke then don't fix it.

John Mason

Location: Nottinghamshire

I agree with your last point, John, but this was an engine that I bought 95% complete, so not running.

It's a bit of a long story, but it had been 'rebuilt' by somebody in the 1980s and left unfinished. Naively, I thought that all I had to do was fit the new Cambridge cylinder head that came with it, and make a few adjustments. I had looked inside the engine before buying it and although it was clear that its components had had some use, it was extremely clean and the block had modifications typical of the time. Unadjusted tappets - completely slackened off - should have given me some clues that there might be more to do.

Once completed, noises from the timing gears when turning it over on the handle led me to discover a tooth missing, this in turn led to realisation that there was no backlash in the timing gears and that there was a large amount of endfloat in the camshaft. With the engine partially stripped to take the camshaft out, curiosity led me to check the oil pump for wear, and hence this thread, which I didn't imagine would develop as it has (although it has included discussion about lathes and other workshop equipment).

Hope that makes it clearer

John

Think that's it.

I don't think you can ever trust a 'rebuilt' but never run engine unless you really know who rebuilt it and trust them to have done it right. Am going through this with an engine (not Austin) at the moment and the only thing to do is strip it all down, clean, check and rebuild it yourself. If you're lucky you get to reuse most of the main parts and just need to replace gaskets and lock washers and so on. On mine there is so much gasket goop everywhere a total strip down is required. It also has that old problem of numbered big ends on the connecting rods but the numbers don't go in order! So who knows what state it is in.

As for lathes they are very handy. I have a little Chinese mini lathe at home and it works very well (with some fettling) for small things. At work I have access to three others, a mini lathe like mine, a medium one and a monster. Technically you can't use any without health and safety training so I am only allowed to use the medium one (same goes for the table saw, drop saw, etc, etc).

They call this training but it is nothing at all to do with how to safely use a lathe. This is more idiot, cover their asses legally training for the workplace. Thing like don't get long hair/clothes caught in the lathe. Don't trip over it. If you have to lift it don't strain your back (seriously!). If using coolant you have to wear full safety gear including respirators. We're also not allowed to use them after hours unless the company health and safety person is physically onsite!

Presumably they need someone there to do the paperwork in case of an accident?

Simon

Location: Wellington

It all sounds terribly dangerous Simon ;)

I had that problem when my con-rods came back from being re-metalled. The company had carefully marked the pairs, but it didn't tally with the dot punches on the now clean metal that must have been done on some previous rebuild. As the con-rods had been line bored after re-metalling, I'm hoping all will be fine.