Are there any differences between them ?

My 1928 frame has little extension bits on the main chassis rails behind the rear springs.

AITS - not a short reply I'm afraid, but here goes. The 1927 chassis had a main rail extending 6" behind the u'bolt notch at rear, this changed to 1" for the "1928 model" at the same time (Dec. '27) when extensions were permanently rivetted. The "lip" or "turn-up" of the top hat section of the rail finished on the '28 chassis about 4 5/8" behind the front cross member. The 1929 chassis had this lip extended to 6" ahead of the front cross member, but when this change actually came I've yet to work out for certain. Two chassis checked (probably made same day) of July '28 from memory had the lip still behind the x-member, so it may not have been altered until late-'28 or early 1929. Wyatt gave a couple of references to "frame" changes during May '29, but may be irrelevant to your question. The obvious answer would be to check chassis numbers, but I know that many '29 chassis were not stamped, only stencilled. I'm confident that '28 chassis were all stamped, but with the two '28 chassis mentioned above, one had the number stamped next to nose-piece on the near-side rail, but the other was stamped between engine mounts on the offside (!), so suggest check everywhere. If not the full answer for you, may be of help to know where to look or not look further. Good Luck, Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Euroa,Victoria

Bill,

The Source Book page 217 shows-

"May 29th 1929 Chassis No. 86511

Frame side members at the cross member, upturned lip along the lower edge extended forwards"

My Saloon Chassis 83609, 26th April 1929 does not have the extended upturn.

The Spare Parts Lists don't show this change.

Tony.

Location: Victoria, Australia.

Thanks Tony, and that seems to be the answer now that your chassis supports it. I was aware of what Source said, but as you know there are enough errors in that publication to make me want further evidence - that's why I didn't mention it apart from the vague reference to May, particularly as Parts Lists didn't mention details. I didn't want to put Austin in the Sh.. until actual owners came forth. Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Euroa,Victoria

Bill,

Another chassis confirmed-

Ian Moorcraft tells me his Fabric saloon with chassis number 86470 (first registered 23rd July 29) does not have the lip extended forwards.


Tony.

Location: Victoria, Australia.

Thanks for the replies on this,Wyatt mentions these fold up changes too.
Having a '27 and '30 chassis to look at,are the cross members different too?
When did Austin discontinue the 1/2"? dia brace from the chassis rail to the rear cross member,sorry to be an anorak on the detail.

If the information is going to be anywhere, it will be here by the end of this week:

http://archive.a7ca.org/wp-content/uploads/IC_A7_BR-FRAME.pdf

Well done to all those involved in getting this into the public domain - top job!!

This sort of explains it-

Chassis Side Member, Shallow Frame BR1, XL1005 to chassis 23,500

Chassis Side Member, Deeper Frame BR62, 1A5061 (was XL1403) to chassis 50,900

Chassis Side Member, Strengthening Lip, (no BR number) originally 1A5117, use 1A5135,6,7 together, to chassis 86,481

Chassis Side Member Extensions Added BR69, 1A5137

Tony.

Location: Victoria, Australia.

Bill. The chassis for my GE cup is, according to the rivetted on chassis number plate approx March 1928. It has the extended main rails you describe as 1927. It also has extensions just like my two 1930 chassis.

The rolling chassis is as found, probably has its original engine judging by the numbers. Other than a later gearbox top and a later steering box it is pretty unmolested. That said the 1928 steering column (a raked one) was found in the same shed.

Rather interesting, Hedd. For a start, A7 chassis that early never had rivetted-on ID plates and the only extension that the 1927 chassis had if at all were the bolt-on ones that owners could buy from Dealers. Unlike the more-familiar extensions, they fitted parallel to each other, not splayed out as a continuation of the the main rails. (Incidentally, Austin literature says the parallel ones were suitable for all earlier models - not quite, as pre-'27 the main rails were lower, so a higher bolted-on extnsn would not fit the floor very well on Pramhoods). At a time when I was interested in the late-1927 change-over period I checked from memory eight or nine cars to verify. Already by the end of '27 the tube diagonals were eliminated, the shocker mountings different, the main rails were shorter and the more-familiar splayed extensions were standard. Depending on when in 1930 your two chassis were built, your cross-members could be different to a 1927 type as well. The possibility is that G. England "updated" an earlier chassis? If so, a forensic check would show up the original number previously stamped into the top of the longer nearside rail, next to the nose-piece casting. Good Luck, Cheers, Bill

Location: Euroa, Australia

Thanks Ruairidh, looks like invaluable info. I will now study your Archive Lists and see where/if it disagrees with what I found "in the flesh", so probably some apologies in the offing! Cheers, Bill

Location: Euroa, Australia

Brilliant cards Ruairidh, I have learnt something, the first approx 4000 cars had rear shackle pins( XL 621) with a grease nipple in the end not on the spring eye. Obviously quite possible with no SA and in line with the design of the front spring shackles, which stayed that way for the life of the Seven. I wonder if the change to putting the grease nipple on the spring eye was a practical one, because it took place before SA's were introduced, it is easier to apply the grease gun to a nipple in the spring eye.

I look forward to having access to all the cards

Henry

I have often wondered about the wording of the plate affixed to chassis supplied to coach builders, does the word 'property' refer to intellectual property, ie Austins designed and made it. Because obviously once the coach builder bought the chassis from Longbridge it belonged to them. And once sold to the first owner it was his or hers property.

I have read somewhere that the chassis was provided by Austin on credit and was only paid for by the coach builder when the finished car was sold.

R

Location: The 3D shed, Tewkesbury

As the plate also has provision for stamping with the horsepower, this must have applied to any chassis from the Austin range that was sent from the works to be bodied outside.
It would be interesting to know if anyone has one of the larger Austin models with such a plate, and what body is fitted. I always thought this applied to vehicles that were bodied outside the works and then returned to be sold by Austin as their own, e.g. vans/commercials.

Just looked at an Austin Catalogue for 1928 (600D) and prices given for the Gordon England Cup and Wembley Saloon are quoted 'at London' earlier catalogues refer to London Depot. The Mulliner Fabric Saloon is quoted 'at Works'

There is a note under the cars that Messrs Gordon England and Mulliner take all responsibility for coachwork.

Re David's "Property of" question, it's my guess that it must have been the accepted wording for patenting or design registration. I have a very old oil bottle where the "Shell" moulding in the glass is a design quite different to the motif we're all used to. It's also moulded "Property of Shell Co. Ltd". With the hundreds, probably thousands, of bottles produced & sold, I doubt the company would be demanding their property back? In the case of Austin 7 chassis, our Herbert must have been filled with trepidation putting his name to some of the chassis that came out of Gordon England - as evidenced in Ruairidh's Cup Folio, some weird & wonderful modifications were done to the original design. A reminder that my lengthy bit above only referred to original A7 chassis. Cheers, Bill

Location: Euroa, Australia