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Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Than you for the link Peter. I've saved a copy to my new A7 file for easy reference.

The new tyres are being fitted this week, after which I'll transfer the car to my friends workshop for fettling.

Best wishes,

Bill

Location: Saumur, France

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

If I had the money and the time and a sparesyard near me I would take your Once today.
My first car was a Fifteen made in Slough. What a fabulous car it turned out to be.
Monocoque, front wheel drive and torsion bar suspension, which I once read was next used by Chapman on a Lotus. It corned like a dream, all you had to do was to keep putting you foot down more to pull the tail in.

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Good news Bill - hope it all goes to plan and that you have lots of fun ahead of you!

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Why not just have the car registered in France? It's not difficult. All you need is an "attestation" from the FFVE and a curent CT then you can apply for a Carte Grise "Collection". With that the vehicle will only need a sympathetic to its age Contrôle Technique every 5 years and classic car insurance is as cheap as chips in France. My RP costs 43€ a year.

When in Rome...

Location: Gard, France 30960

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Yes Frank, the handling of the Traction is simply amazing for a pre-war design and the flat boot looks so much better than the later offering.

Thanks Ruairidh, I'm planning to do just that and hope to get it here to enjoy some summer exploring.

Thanks for the tip Reckless and I will be doing just that for some of the cars, but have this strange desire to keep certain ones on original plates, but time will tell.

Insurance is now sorted and research is continuing and it should be in the workshop in a few days time.

Regards to all,

Bill

Location: Saumur, France

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Sitrep: car now in Brian's cosy Hampshire workshop and the fettling plan rationalised to discreet hydraulic front brakes, new correct pattern Ulster dash, leather seat covers from Tony, straightening the kinky gear stick and replacing or hiding anything that wouldn't have been on the car in 1936.

A small dry cell battery will replace the wet one (safer and lighter) and whilst on the safety issue, a seemingly sticky one in A7 circles: a couple of race harnesses fixed to a new metal frame in the tail. I don't accept that originality needs to triumph over safety, particularly if the car will be raced or used enthusiastically and the modifications done in a harmonious way. This is however, a personal choice we all have to make.

I now have a silly question. I've not yet spotted where the starter button is located on an Ulster and yes, I have Chris Gould's wonderful book, but it's with the car in the UK. Any pointers anyone?

All the best,

Bill

Location: Saumur, France

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

I personally would not fit harnesses into an open Austin 7. God forbid, if it turns over, you will be better off if you get ejected rather than being trapped inside. This point was brought home at Mallory Park last weekend when a Morgan 3 wheeler rolled over. The paramedics were of the opinion that the driver could have been killed if she had been trapped in the car. I am pleased to say that she escaped without serious injury as she was thrown as the car went over.

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

I agree with Malcolm as the bodywork has limited vertical strength I assume being made of light tubes and alloy skin.

Ps Malcolm could you send me your email as I've lost it and I have some wing strut photos to send

Regards
Bill G

Coldingham

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Your own choice, of course, but seat belts in an Ulster is not a good idea at all. Malcolm quotes the incident at vintage Mallory a week ago. The fact that the driver (someone Malc and I know well) came out of the car probably saved her life. We both saw how the car ended up and the thought of being trapped underneath it was frightening. Without doubt, if I'd been strapped into my Ulster when I rolled at Loton two years ago I'd have been, at least, severely injured. As it was, I came out as it went over and bashed my shoulder a bit.

Seat belts aren't something that are just bolted into somewhere convenient. Their fixings are carefully designed into, and are part of, the structure of the vehicle and, quite simply, an Ulster doesn't have any such designed fixing points and their structure isn't suitable. You say you'll use a 'new metal frame in the tail'. What will that frame fix to? In the end, the belts are still going to fixed to the basic Ulster body/chassis however you achieve it.

If you do fix belts into your car and are looking to race it, be prepared to have to prove that the belt fixings have been properly and competently designed into the car to the satisfaction of the scrutineers. I suspect you might have some difficulty in doing that......!

Steve

Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Going on from what Steve has said above, it is possible to build considerable strength into the Ulster body at the rear of the cockpit, without using a steel structure. By fitting a sturdy plywood or aluminium bulkhead where the seat back is, you can be pretty certain that in the event of the car rolling, this will not deform unduly. Ulsters originally did not have such a bulkhead, there was a wooden frame around the rear of the cockpit which added a bit of strength and served to fix the seat back to, which was supported on webbing.
Similarly, when fitting a new Ulster pattern dash, make sure to fit the proper angle support brackets as these help strengthen the front of the cockpit.
Regarding the Ulster starter button, these were mounted on a bracket on the left hand side of the transmission tunnel just in front of the seat, similar to the other Austin 7 models of 1930/31. These of course had the starter on a housing that intruded into the passenger footwell and the battery was under the passenger seat. If your car has a later engine with a forward facing starter you will probably have a wire pull starter knob that can be fixed to the underside of the dash by the steering wheel.

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

I speak from personal experience here and have to agree with Steve and Malcolm about not fitting seat belts. I managed to roll my car four times at around 85mph, I broke vertebra in my neck and back, shattered my scapular, broke both clavicles, half a dozen ribs, my left arm and right hand. I also suffered a traumatic brain injury from which I am still recovering two and a half years later! I was thrown from the car after the first roll, there is absolutely no doubt that I would be dead had I remained strapped into the car. I am very, very lucky and extremely grateful to the skill of paramedics who attended to me at the track.

Location: Auckland NZ

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Thank you Malcolm, Bill and Steve for your useful comments. I’ve never avoided anything in life simply because it’s difficult and transferring loads from harness points to the chassis is a straightforward engineering exercise and as with all challenges, is something to be overcome.

The issue of overturning is the scary one however. Adding roll over protection may well be too much of a compromise, as I would not for example, be willing to include a structural roll hoop into a 1930s open car. To achieve the correct seating though, we are indeed fitting a new webbed aluminium bulkhead to the rear of the cockpit (the existing plywood offering is far too thick!) and this will help with body rigidity, as will the new dashboard’s mounting brackets, as per Chris Gould’s drawings.

The compromise therefore appears to be in the hands of risk analysis, weighing the severity ad likely incidence of risks against elimination or effectiveness of mitigation, then seeing if you can live with the results. It may well be that we look at belts, rather than harnesses, as one at least has some chance of reducing your vertical exposure!

Thanks Malcolm for the starter information and I do have the later engine, so a bracket under the dash it will be.

Bill

Location: Saumur, France

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Hi Ian,

Sorry I missed your post while typing my earlier response. Wow, you’ve had a tough time of it and as it says on the entry ticket, ‘Motorsport is dangerous’. I’m happy you’re still with us and can pass on your experiences to others.

I live in a part of France where our local winegrowers started playing with old cars around the village streets 20 years ago and we ow have an annual event were pre-war 2, 3 and 4 wheeled machinery drive very enthusiastically round the village streets in demonstration of the spirit of vintage motor racing. Well that’s the PC version, but our Grand Prix Retro event is fabulous fun and I intend to fully participate next year, rather than remain a spectator.

Although the risks will be much reduced over a fully competitive event, I am taking my safety very seriously, but the car is and will remain fully road legal and will be enjoyed on the road, as well as occasionally retro events.
All possible good fortune with your continued recovery.

Best wishes,

Bill

Location: Saumur, France

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Let's be honest, if we thought about things too much we would never get in a pre-war car. I personally feel safer on the narrow lanes of North Yorkshire in an Austin 7 than I do in a modern, they are small enough to get out of the way.
I live in a village where there are far more horses than vintage cars, on my side of the village street there are 15 houses and 9 of them own horses, if I grew roses I would not be short of manure!
At present three of the said horse owners are nursing injuries resulting from being thrown off and my neighbour has a broken foot after her horse stood on it.
Moral of story - Austin 7's are a bl**dy sight safer than horses.
PS: Anyone requiring horse manure should send a large stamped addressed Jiffy bag.

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Bill, there are many, many drivers who have raced Austin 7's and other open vintage cars for years with out suffering any negative consequences. My accident was unfortunate, I drive at the limit and got unlucky that day, there was an oil spillage in a fast blind corner, the car hit it, went sideways, then found grip and barrel rolled. Fitting a full cage is the only way I would want to be strapped in, that might be difficult to safely construct in a seven, although the Aussies do it successfully in their race cars. Might be worth checking out?

Location: Auckland NZ

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Malcolm Parker
PS: Anyone requiring horse manure should send a large stamped addressed Jiffy bag.


Dave Wortley - never look a gift horse in the mouth!

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Malcolm Parker
.....I personally feel safer on the narrow lanes of North Yorkshire in an Austin 7 than I do in a modern, they are small enough to get out of the way......


As he and I have proved on more than one occasion (including the tractor incident - although we did say we'd never talk about that again!!).

Next weekend, Malcolm and I will spend two days in mid Wales my A7 Trials Chummy. At some point over those two days Malcolm will calmly say something along the lines of ".....road bends sharply left (or it might be right) next..." That might seem to simply be reasonable advice but I've lots of experience of these situations and understand that what he's really saying is ".....for ****'s sake, slow down...."

Steve

Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Malcolm Parker

PS: Anyone requiring horse manure should send a large stamped addressed Jiffy bag.



We have a lot of roses, hence the name of chez nous, 'Le Clos de la Rose', but alas all the horses around here have been replaced with tractors.

Thank goodness we're out of Jiffies!

Location: Saumur, France

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Steve Jones

As he and I have proved on more than one occasion (including the tractor incident - although we did say we'd never talk about that again!!).




Ah yes, the tractor incident. I am going to devote Chapter Two of my forthcoming book 'Stupid things to do in an Austin Seven' to that! (available at all good stationers and newsagents)

Alternatively send a large stamped addressed Jiffy bag.

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

I think that there was only one accident at le PND this year, the Alcyon cyclecar. As I rolled up to the scene the driver was being helped out of the capsized car and he walked away. The car was the back- marker and probably doing less than 20mph when it rolled. The marshals would have had difficulty freeing the driver had he been strapped in. He was able to fold into the cockpit without being restrained in a driving position by belt or harness.
I have to admit to a few qualms about pushing it around a Tarmac "piste" but I think discretion should take the better part of valour...
You're planning to do a bit of heavy right foot driving but I tend to agree that you have to take responsibility for your own safety, the easiest route is by losing weight from your throttle pusher!

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Hi Bill, having raced bangers in my teens in the 1970s and off road competition safaris in my mid 20s I am no stranger to hanging upside down in harness and even 360 rolls without even stopping on a couple of occasions, I can highly recommend belts and cages not only for rolls but head on and side impacts, my experiences are all of course in closed vehicles but the off road racer was of a space frame construction with just a fiberglass roof panel over the frame,I did a 360 roll at about 65 mph whilst drifting it around a corner when it hit a deep rut and flipped, landing on its wheels I was in first gear and on my way before it stopped bouncing, no damage to me and only two broken spot lights on the roof and four bent mudguards.
It struck me that an external removable roll cage could be what you are looking for, constructed around the car and fixed via plates on the floor clamping to the main chassis rails, this type of cage would not only add some extra stiffness to the chassis but also provide roll and side impact protection and may save the body panels as well, many of the Land Rover racers use this type of external cage.It would only need 16 bolts to fix it in and it could be quickly removed for every day use.

Location: Pembrokeshire

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Malcolm, I would like to send a jiffy bag but just to be clear the Horse-*hit I require is in the form of said book, cheers Russell

Location: oz

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

After Malcolm's first offer, I'd be wary if I were you when you receive in the mail not a jiffy bag, but a feelie bag. Cheers, Bill

Location: Euroa, Australia

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Phil Kingdom

It struck me that an external removable roll cage could be what you are looking for, constructed around the car and fixed via plates on the floor clamping to the main chassis rails, this type of cage would not only add some extra stiffness to the chassis but also provide roll and side impact protection and may save the body panels as well, many of the Land Rover racers use this type of external cage.It would only need 16 bolts to fix it in and it could be quickly removed for every day use.


Good luck getting that one past the MSA scroots. Best allow some extra time in scrutineering.
If you want a car with a cage try a Caterham. I'm sure that they are fun.

Charles

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

R,
I will see if Helen is interested in pushing her new wheelbarrow birthday presy up to North Yorks for some free horse poo.
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

It would be a great shame to miss out for the sake of a short push.

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Charles P
....If you want a car with a cage try a Caterham. I'm sure that they are fun.

Charles


Quite. However, having seen the result of a 'professionally designed' cage on a Caterham collapsing in a roll a couple of years ago with the driver securely strapped into the car, you might also want to think about wearing some armour plating

Steve

Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

As a motor sport competitor for 25 years, rallying and Circuit racing I would not want to be strapped into an Ulster that rolled, preferring to take my chances whilst being thrown out of the car.

In our nominally Ulster Replica,ish we have fitted a one inch diameter steel tube hoop behind the dash with the corners well braced. Also an aluminium faced plywood bulkhead which bolts in behind the seat back. These are intended to offer some resistance to at least the first roll and give the driver some chance to escape. I should add that this car is NOT used for speed events, just trials and road.

Having rolled my rally car heavily I was amazed at the damage. The car was properly built to full FIA international standard and fitted with a Safety Devices FIA roll cage. When I had a little off, the car flipped and landed on the drives side of the roof with sufficient force to bend the front leg of the roll cage flat. the roof line was straight from the main roll hoop to the front bumper! The FIA seat and 6 point harness held me secure and my only injury was a cut on the back of my hand where it hit the windscreen (I wasn't wearing my gloves that I should have had on!). I hate to think what would have happened if I had been strapped into an Ulster......

Decide how much you can afford to spend on a helmet, then double it, and buy good multi layer racing overalls!

Stuart.

PS looks a lovely car!!

Location: Devon

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Stuart Palmer

Decide how much you can afford to spend on a helmet, then double it, and buy good multi layer racing overalls!

Stuart.

PS looks a lovely car!!


The other advice recently been given by medics elsewhere is that body protection, of the horse riding or motorcycle type, worn under the race suit can be of significant benefit.

Charles

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Couldn't agree more with everyone. No way would I be strapped into an Ulster, road or race. In fact probably wouldn't drive one, if I had to be.
David B.

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Charles P
Stuart Palmer

Decide how much you can afford to spend on a helmet, then double it, and buy good multi layer racing overalls!

Stuart.

PS looks a lovely car!!


The other advice recently been given by medics elsewhere is that body protection, of the horse riding or motorcycle type, worn under the race suit can be of significant benefit.

Charles


Sounds like a very good idea!

Location: Devon

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Thank you one and all for your comments and advice. There's a clear consensus of experienced based opinion on this one, which is most useful.

We're out to dinner tomorrow with a good pal who races a Morgan three wheeler and his experiences should provide some interesting discussion over our bread and wine. I'm a great believer in common sense, logic and risk assessment . . . but what will the bride decide, oops, I mean think!

So, the next question is: full face or open face helmet?

Thanks chaps,

Bill

Location: Saumur,France

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Bill James
Thank you one and all for your comments and advice. There's a clear consensus of experienced based opinion on this one, which is most useful.

We're out to dinner tomorrow with a good pal who races a Morgan three wheeler and his experiences should provide some interesting discussion over our bread and wine. I'm a great believer in common sense, logic and risk assessment . . . but what will the bride decide, oops, I mean think!

So, the next question is: full face or open face helmet?

Thanks chaps,

Bill


In an open car, full face, without fail.

Location: Teignmouth

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Bill - Before you debate Full or Open face helmets, remember the cart and the horse. I'd suggest you first make sure (a) your car is track-worthy and acceptable for the events proposed, (b) that not only is the car running well, but is not a Supersnail that will get in everyone's way and perhaps be a danger to others as well as yourself and (c) you are competent and familiar enough with the car to ensure you won't be disappearing off the black stuff. Good Luck with it all. Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Euroa, Australia

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Thanks for your concern Bill in Oz, but worry not, all is well and I'm a big bright chap, not completely without experience.

Bill

Location: Saumur, France

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

I remember a VSCC race meeting from my youth in which a friend of my father had an accident in an open Edwardian. Having been dragged or pushed face first across the ground, the condition of his full face helmet was alarming. I wouldn't want to consider what he would have looked like if he had worn an open face helmet.

I know that open face helmets are more "period" looking, but when purchasing a helmet for myself, there was only one choice.

There is a change in MSA helmet standards that has resulted in low or no stock of the cheaper helmets, so I was forced to buy something a bit more expensive this year - it may be worth waiting until the market sorts itself out if you aren't in a hurry.

Peter

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Thanks Peter, I'm in no rush, as we need to put in many road miles and get used to each other before we buy a helmet.

Cheers,

Bill

Location: Saumur, France

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

I've got both full face and open face helmets and for reasons of comfort (I wear glasses) and protecting my matinee idol looks I prefer the full face.

Charles

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Bill - the reason for my above suggestions were because although you call it a race car, you appear to have no evidence that it actually ever raced (seemed strange to me that the history file was "lost") and you've had to rely on the dealer's word about a non-produced VSCC buff thingo and that the engine has been "tuned" (whatever that means, and by whom and how well? Plus,if the brakes don't work, surely that's the first or second thing a competitor would have attended to?) so I wouldn't be too anxious to rush into things no matter how experienced a race driver you are. I'm not a doom-sayer (just careful) and I'm not the worrying kind - as always, merely trying to help. Cheers, Bill

Location: Euroa, Australia

Re: Announcing the arrival of a new baby . . . race car !!!

Bill,

I've never said that this particular car ever raced, nor did I feel a need to defend myself in calling it a baby race car. I thought it was common knowledge that a few original A7 Sports models were successfully 'raced' in a location in Ireland which gave rise to their affectionate Ulster name and subsequent heritage as racers.

It matters not a jot to me that a previous owner lost the history file, or indeed that another used it for occasional trials. I bought the car as I've long desired a pre-war sports car and additionally would like to take part in some of the retro motoring events here in France.

What does matter however, is that the car is fully capable of doing what I need it to do, which includes good brakes and this forum has proved most helpful in my research and pursuit to get the car right.

Cheers,

Bill

Location: Saumur, France