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American Austin Engine

I am a bit surprised that no one has commented on the American Austin Engine 1932-34 that's currently on Ebay (262215262071). I'm intrigued by its difference to the equivalent UK engine and cannot understand why it is so different. I think it's the oil gallery and almost 45 degree downward angled splash fed jets that I find so odd. Is there a reason for this, has America got a different angle of gravity from the UK (appreciate nonsense) ? Must have cost Austin a fortune to manufacture yet another type of crankcase or were they produced in the USA ? It's like 'a spot the difference puzzle' and raises the issue of how many different crankcases did Austin produce even for the UK market and why, beyond the prototypes, magneto to coil, sports and finally 3 bearing engines ?

Location: Worthing

Re: American Austin Engine

The American Austin and the later Bantam engines (and the rest of the car) were entirely manufactured in the USA AFAIK. The American Austin motors appear to be pretty much a mirror image of the UK A7 motor. The later Bantam motors have a V belt driven dynamo. Here's a complete American Austin motor I snapped at a US swap meet (autojumble to us) a couple of years ago.



At the time, I didn't think it was especially cheap at $600, but it is a lot more complete than the ebay item.

Location: N W Kent

Re: American Austin Engine

I shall do my best to bore you silly about the American engines.
The one in the picture is an early one from about 1930 or 31. Note solid engine mountings, fan driven from camshaft pulley, and generally all very similar to A7. Has 2-main crank with ball and roller main bearings. Note the forward mounted starter, a feature which was used right from the beginning (June 1930) predating the English Austin by perhaps a couple of years. It would be interesting to know how that happened as it is an exact mirror image of the later A7 design.
The engine still rotates clockwise, so the oil gallery and the spitty things had to remain on the right hand side. The oil gallery can be seen as a long bulge on the side of the crankcase, and has the two cleaning plugs on it. This gallery is lower down than on the A7, this no doubt being the reason for the different angle of spit. (Nothing to do with faith hope or gravity!)
Later versions of this engine featured rubber mountings and a belt driven dynamo (from the crankshaft via V belt) was introduced, along with a new distributor drive from the front of the camshaft via a skew gear, which meshes perfectly with an A7 distributor gear. When the Bantam engine was introduced in 1938 this dynamo and distributor arrangement along with the rubber feet were carried over to the new engine.
That'll do for now, unless you want more???

Location: Wellington NZ

Re: American Austin Engine

Ivan thanks for your comprehensive description. Do they have a bigger oil pump and operate with higher oil pressure than the UK engines ? I thought gravity was quite a useful factor in the UK set-up especially with the low oil pressure of earlier engines but am possibly wrong. Was the change in position of the oil gallery done for any scientific reason ?

Location: Worthing

Re: American Austin Engine

No the oil pump was identical to A7 apart from the housing being a mirror image. Skew gears are the same hand and pitch, even though, with the camshaft still rotating anti-clockwise the pump shaft runs in the opposite direction. (That takes some working out, but it's true). Oil pressure is still no more than 15psi cold, negligible when hot.
Big change with the Bantam engine was the use of plain white metal mains. There were 3 different Bantam engines

1. Crankshaft was counterweighted and had 2 plain main bearings. Big-ends lubricated by a dipper system. Early cylinder heads were aluminium with a removable outlet, different from any A7. Later heads had an integral outlet in the form of a full length riser. No change to the oil pump. Flywheel was mounted using 4 bolts, not key-and-taper. Flywheels are fragile - I have had one break around the middle - it did not sound very nice! There was a boss cast into the crankcase for a mechanical fuel pump, and there was a suitable cam on the camshaft, but these were never used. A case of future-proofing for a non-existent future!

2. Same crankshaft but it was drilled for pressure lubrication of the big-ends. I have heard that these shafts were prone to breakage. At some stage the oil pump became a gear type, but this may not have happened until Engine type 3 below

3. The 3-main engine. A central bearing was introduced, but not identical to the Austin 7 one. The engine was bored out slightly and I think the stroke was increased slightly as well, giving about 800cc. The block and crankcase were provided with an extra stud at each end. This should have been a pretty good little engine, but not many were made.

Location: Wellington NZ

Re: American Austin Engine

Fabulous stuff, Ivan you've certainly touched base with most of the points I raised. Would all these engines have an identical bell-housing to Austin ? A weird maybe masochistic part of me would like to get hold of one of these later Bantam engines and put it in say a Ruby. Sounds as if it was slightly better thought out than the equivalent 3-bearing A7 engine. Chances of finding one especially in the UK is remote and as we can all appreciate if you find one in some 'far-off' land, you'd pay as much if not more to deliver the thing ! Thanks for your and Stuart's input.

Location: Worthing

Re: American Austin Engine

I have not seen an American Austin gearbox in the flesh, but believe they were all similar to the English 3 speed, even though made in USA. Bantams used a Warner box as used in Willys and Studebaker, slightly modified. This used a separate cast iron bell housing which will bolt up to any A7 crankcase (not sure about Rosengart or Dixi). Bantam rear axle was a shortened Studebaker unit, made by Spicer, and very similar in design to the Salisbury ones used by some Jaguars, Daimler and Armstrong Siddeley. The whole Bantam transmission was virtually indestructible, and fairly heavy.

Location: Wellington NZ

Re: American Austin Engine

I have a Warner # speed gearbox which looks like it is interchangeable with the 3 speed Austin box. However I think all internals are not the same as Austin and the case is aluminium. On the side is cast--

T73-1
WARNER
GEAR CO
MUNCIE IND

Location: Vancouver Canada

Re: American Austin Engine

Ken, I'm sure that the American Austin box was actually made by Warner so this is probably what you have. The Bantam box is also Warner but cast iron with a bolt-on cast iron bell housing to suit the Bantam engine. It is a T84 and is very similar to an early Jeep box and to Willys and Studebaker, and maybe others. If you don't want that box then I'm sure someone in the US based Austin Bantam Society would be interested.

Location: Wellington NZ

Re: American Austin Engine

Ivan, I think I might use it, it has all steel parts and all gears look heavier than Austin. The ratios are-- Top 1:1 , 2nd 1:1.72 , 1st 1:3.125

Location: Vancouver Canada