I am in the throes of starting my RK saloon, which has hibernated for several years in the USA.
Battery is relatively new & now charged.
All the ignition circuit is fine...good fat spark at the new plugs after cleaning up all the contacts /leads etc.
Engine turns over easily on the handle (I haven't tried the starter seriously yet!)doesn't feel like a lot of compression, but I recall that is how it was!
Fuel was old & stale, but I tried anyway (no joy, no surprise!)However the carb overflowed spectacularly...a good jet out of the hole in the carb top!
So I have drained the fuel & taken the carb off to give it a clean out. It is a bronze 22FZ (I thought it should have been a zinc die cast? (engine no 101897 I think is the original-Chassis 101380), but bronze is more aesthetically pleasing!
The needle valve has no step worn in it & the seating looks ok as well. I did notice that this seating has two fibre washers (total thickness ~ 1.5- 2.0mm), clearly this could affect the float height. Could that cause the overflow? Any comments??
Main & compensating jets are both clear (can't see a number on either, so have to assume(!)at this stage they are suitable sizes.)
Next plan is to put in some fuel & see what happens...starting instructions say "fuel on, tickle carb needle, ign on, turn ignition lever to 3 o'clock, full choke, don't touch the accelerator until engine fires"....we will see!

Location: Stratford upon Avon

David the first thing I think of with little or no compression on a car that has been standing for some time is,are the valves stuck up? Take off the tappet cover and watch the valves as a helper turns the handle.
Quickest fix is to take the head off, trying to lever them down with a screwdriver is really difficult and there is usually one that you just cannot get working so the head ends up coming off anyway. Ian

Location: Bristol

Take the plugs out and put a drop of fresh petrol down the bores. Fill the carb float chamber with fresh petrol.

Use the starter. It will need full choke. See if the bugger will go.

If the valves are stuck it wont. But I bet it will and they are not

Hi Hedd that's exactly what my mate said a few weeks ago on a box that had been laid up since 1985. In the end we took the head off and spent a good half day freeing the valves, knocking them down with a block and turning the starting handle over and over again. I was on the handle and knackered by the end of it, but it did go in the end!!!

Location: Bristol

1985 was 21 years ago. It is no surprise they were stuck!

I will let you know!!
David

Location: Stratford upon Avon

Location: Shropshire

Well I said I would report back!

I tried the fuel down the plug 'ole with no real success, except that after much winding I do have a bit more compression now & a bit of "sucking noise" from the carb and a lot of fuel dribbling out of the Choke orifice???.This had the unforeseen benefit of revealing the chassis numbers stamped under there, but is a bit of a concern to me as I do not understand carburettors apart from cleaning the muck out.
However no explosions within (or without) the combustion chambers. (I retimed a 1930 Seven in my youth & got it 180 degrees out & had spectacular flames!)
Plugs are still sparking.
Where do I go from here? I suppose I will have to take the tappet cover off & see if ALL the valves are going up & down....
The battery appears to be holding a bit of charge & it spun the engine over pretty well, but neither this nor winding hard has persuaded the oil pressure gauge (extra fitting!)to move, nor the button to Pop out. Should I remove the gallery plugs & see what comes out?
Advice continues to be appreciated!
David

Location: Stratford upon Avon

David,

Bang 12 volts thro' the starter. It'll get the engine turning over really fast and may bring results. It's worked for me on several occasions over the years.

Chris

Location: Melton Mowbray

Are you sure the plug leads are back in the correct order?

Wind it over with the plugs out and a thumb over No.1

If it the plug sparks in time with the "chuff" then the timing is near enough.

Chris' 12 volts will tell you then if there is any chance of it going.

Simon

Location: On a hill in Wiltshire

Thanks, more things to try, and I won't hang on to a plug lead!
D

Location: Stratford upon Avon

No, you just lay the plug next to the hole so you can see the spark and feel the chuff at the same time....

Location: On a hill in Wiltshire

Feel the chuff, Simon? Feel the chuff!! Really?

Location: Melton Mowbray

I suppose it is some obscure term used in the wilds of the Wolds.

Down in civilised Wiltshire (!!!) we are teaching the grandchildren:

"The coal makes the fire, and the fire makes the steam, and the steam makes the "chuff" which makes the engine go..."



Later, of course, it will be

"Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow, that's what makes an engine go"

You will be telling me there is innuendo in that, next!

Simon

Location: On a hill in Wiltshire

Contrary to what TV programme presenters would have us believe there should be no bang or explosion in either a petrol, gas or diesel engine, if there is then you have serious problems such as detonation, that is the explosion which will wreck your pride and joy. I've seen the results, piston crowns holed, rings shattered and bent con rods to name a few results. Internal (sometimes infernal) engines have controlled combustion so it is suck, squeeze, burn, push.

Still no joy! When attempting to start the engine fuel dribbles from the air intake on to the exhaust....this is NOT A GOOD THING (1066 & all that!)
Why should this happen? the jets appear to be tight, there are fibre washers in place. (how many should there be on the needle valve? there were two when I stripped the car to clean it out)The 22FZ is a very simple bit of kit....what can possibly go wrong!!
Second question...The long upper bolt supporting the inlet manifold. There is a gap between the two manifolds & if the bolt were tightened it would strain the casting. Should there be a spacer or washer be in that gap? It looks about the thickness of the manifold gasket, can air bleed into the manifold around this bolt, or is it blind? None of my exploded diagrams helps
Thanks in advance!
David

Location: Stratford upon Avon

Either the needle valve is not seating properly or the fuel level is too high.
I found it took quite a bit of fiddling to get the valve seating correctly on my car. The needles often have a groove worn in the seating area. New ones are available. Also the levers in the top are often worn where they bear on the float. They can be turned the other way up to use the other face.
The fuel level should be slightly below the main jet. If it is above it then fuel will drip out of the intake.
There have been several threads on the forum describing setting the fuel level.

Thanks...perhaps that is why there were two washers under the needle valve! The valve appears groove free, I will looks at the earlier threads, It did seem to me that the float chamber might be too full, so I will look at the levers -the float is sound.
D

Location: Stratford upon Avon

Hello David
You are quite correct, there should be a packing washer (BE23) between the two manifolds.
Have you also checked there is no hole in the vacuum line if you have one.
Adrian.

Location: New Forest

No vacuum line...I will look & see if there is a take off open or closed off!! I have an electric, non-original I think - wiper.
I will make up a packing piece. Thanks for that confirmation
D

Location: Stratford upon Avon

One thing no-one else has mentioned is a possible leaky float. Modern petrol and old solder are not good friends, and it is a problem I have experienced. Take out the float and shake it near your ear. If there is anything rattling or sloshing inside you need to find one which doesn't do that.
By the way, Willie McKenzie is a good source of replacement FZ bits, such as needles, levers and things.

Robert Leigh

Location: just north of Cambridge

I have suffered leaky floats (not pleasant!) in the past & am pretty sure this is ok...I will try the boiling water test.
D

Location: Stratford upon Avon

Whilst petrol dripping on the exhaust is not a good thing, I assume at the moment the exhaust is cold so put a small tin to collect the drips. When you are up to your neck in crocodiles it's difficult to remember the object of the exercise was to drain the swamp. The petrol level on a 22 FZ is adjusted by moving the collar on the needle valve, some of these collars are locked with solder so it may need heating up first. Move the collar up to lower the level and down to raise it. The movement is not a 1:1 ratio, a small movement of the collar causes a bigger change in level. Does the petrol start leaking immediately you turn the petrol on or is there a pause, if a pause it suggests that the needle valve is leaking and the level maybe OK. I have had quite a bit of success reseating the needle valve in the seat using T cut, do not use grinding paste. I put the top of the needle valve in a pillar drill with a drop of T cut on it's lower end then hold the seat lightly against the needle valve with the drill running at it's lowest speed. Keep lowering the seat away and do not led the two run together dry. A couple of minutes is usually enough, then wash parts thoroughly before reassembly.
Back to draining the swamp, with all this petrol about why is the motor not firing?

Hello David
I would not be too worried about the petrol leak at this stage of trying to get the engine started apart from the obvious fire risk. Cranking the engine over with the choke closed and not firing will liberate a little petrol from the carb.
After cranking for a while, are the plugs wet? If not put a little petrol down each bore and quickly try again. Should at least cough.
When turning the engine over slowly can you feel 4 compressions to 2 full winds on the handle. That should tell you if you have leaking valves.
Remove the dizzy cap and note the direction of the rotor and check again the order of firing 1342.
If you believe everything is correct try towing the car and bump starting.
Adrian.

Location: New Forest

You mentioned that compressions felt a bit weak. Rather than petrol, try putting some oil down the bores. Then give some cranking with the starter but with ignition OFF. Then try again.

Location: Farnham

Compressions have improved. Oil has been squired in the past week.
From all the advice coming through I think the needle valve may be the first culprit...especially as it had two fibre washers fitted when I dismantled it. These may have the effect of lifting the valve seat, as opposed to the "correct" solution of moving the collet!
I will keep you in the picture!
David

Location: Stratford upon Avon

IT RUNS!
Ether down the plug holes, into the inlet, full retard & choke and it ran for 5 seconds!
It did not want to repeat the experience, but a 12v battery spun it over and away it went.
Started ok then on 6v on the starter & the clutch seems to work. I have an oil pressure gauge fitted & that looks good, tomorrow I'll get it really warmed up. Engine sounds pretty quiet, albeit a bit of a clatter from the back.
Cleaning up the needle valve on the carb sorted the over fuelling
Thanks to all the gurus!
Now to deal with the DVLA & get it registered.........
David void(0);

Location: Stratford upon Avon

Ah success, now don't just keep running it on the drive on idle, take it for a run round the block, when no one's about, to get the valves and rings working.

I have a cunning plan!

Location: Stratford upon Avon