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when is a chummy not a chummy

There's a guy advertising what appears to me to be a AF tourer but is described on ebay as a ''AUSTIN 7 CHUMMY TOURER'' (1932).
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUSTIN-7-CHUMMY-TOURER-/332034263275?
While I accept that the car still has some features that are 'chummy like', surely it can't be called a chummy?

Regards,
Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Chummy - nickname given to A7 short wheel base tourers.

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Interesting topic!
I own a 1932 AG (I think it will be) chassis 150346 made in March 1932. It is identifiable by the two vertical seams at the back and (a bit if a giveaway) the body is apparently steel. It is en route from northern California, so I have only seen photos, but I understand it is built on a short chassis, left over I expect ...Herbert didn't waste much...and with this unusual patchwork steel - not aluminium , body!
I am looking forward to looking at it closely!
Back to the question, what defines a Chummy?
Wheelbase? Width, Windscreen, Bonnet length, Body material? Sentiment?
Was Chummy Austin's or a colloquial definition?
I think we should be told!!!
David Harrison

Location: Stratford upon Avon

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Ruairidh
got his answer in while I was typing!
David

Location: Stratford upon Avon

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

David Harrison
Interesting topic!
I own a 1932 AG (I think it will be) chassis 150346 made in March 1932. It is identifiable by the two vertical seams at the back and (a bit if a giveaway) the body is apparently steel. It is en route from northern California, so I have only seen photos, but I understand it is built on a short chassis, left over I expect ...Herbert didn't waste much...and with this unusual patchwork steel - not aluminium , body!
I am looking forward to looking at it closely!
Back to the question, what defines a Chummy?
Wheelbase? Width, Windscreen, Bonnet length, Body material? Sentiment?
Was Chummy Austin's or a colloquial definition?
I think we should be told!!!
David Harrison


Tourer with small radiator.

Location: Richmond, Texas, USA

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Of course it's a "Chummy" and a very nice one too it appears.
The only non chummy bit about it that I can easily spot is the Registration Number.

Location: Bristol

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Any close-coupled four seat tourer is a chummy (small 'c') - it was never an official name used by Austin, but Morris did give one of their Cowley body styles the Chummy (capital 'C') name, as also did Jowett and probably a number of others. It was only in the late 'twenties that the title came to be universally used for the Seven, and in my opinion this 1932 tourer is just as entitled to it as any earlier car.

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Ian Dunford
Of course it's a "Chummy" and a very nice one too it appears.
The only non chummy bit about it that I can easily spot is the Registration Number.


I believe the origin of "Chummy" is from the Hindi for close friend --- Chum, a word that entered our language along with pyjamas and fart (sorry) via the East India Co in the 19th century.
So it's really a suitable word for any car that presents a tight fit for driver and passenger but seems delightfully appropriate for the baby Austin and I suspect, if it was in use then, that it was not discouraged by Herbert Austin who would have appreciated its value as an aid to sales.
Don't want to sound definitive on this and would like to hear other theories and if anyone knows when the word was first used in conjunction with the Austin Seven.

Location: Norfolk

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Ian Dunford
Of course it's a "Chummy" and a very nice one too it appears.
The only non chummy bit about it that I can easily spot is the Registration Number.


Perhaps my original question reflects my own preconceptions? to me a chummy tourer would be short chassis, short rad, and short bonnet, open tourer and would see the AF as a transition model.

I obviously bow to those more learned! To those of us less enlightened, the term 'chummy' being 'generic' probably comes as a surprise and reflects our lack of historic / sociological context in that what was common parlance hasn't travelled so well though to modern times.

Charles and Mikes comments show how important period history context is.
Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

I apologise for using Morris to illustrate (!) but the top picshows the normal 4-seat tourer - this would be the standard sort of style for most manufacturers of the period - and below is the Occasional Four or chummy:





I believe the first use of the term was before the First World War, but it became commonplace in the early 1920s.

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Great illustration Mike!
Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Hi ' I don't want to get into the chummy bit, but having recently bought a 1929 AD tourer. I am interested in some of the points on this car as factual. I would be pleased to have these points confirmed or otherwise.
1. Is the fuel tap correct , mine is different.
2. The drivers side screen is it correct with the flap ( my Clifton tourer has this but I don't remember seeing 7's with it.)
3. Again on side screens, the mounting holes in the doors / rear on my car have a threaded hole to take a retaining sets crew as does my Ape Opal stopping the screen form vibrating out. The car illustrated only appears to have one on the drivers side situated on the from of the rear screen assembly.
4. Is the starter button correct or would my earlier car have a different arrangement..

Thanks for any forthcoming comments.
Derek

Location: Oakley hants

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Hi Derek,

my thoughts are:

1. Yes, for this car.

2. No, not an original adaptation.

3. The side screens should sit in holes without any kind of locking mechanism on this car.

4. Yes, for this car.


Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Thanks Ruairidh.
My car has the threaded holes in the mounts and has somebody has otherwise upholstered the side panels very nicely but cut around the mounts I think that I shall use the setscrews, which by the way look very original. Just make a few more for the missing ones. Gordon's earlier chummy screens jump out each time he hits the notorious bump out of the village so tends not to fit them unless it's heaving down.
Compared your hood arrangement on the 12 to Barry Mulroys Earlier version and can now see how your screen evolved.

Location: Oakley hants

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Derek Sheldon
Thanks Ruairidh.
My car has the threaded holes in the mounts and has somebody has otherwise upholstered the side panels very nicely but cut around the mounts I think that I shall use the setscrews, which by the way look very original.


Derek,

Ian tells me that his '29 AD had these set screws when he purchased it in 1970 - they were located through the side panels (i.e. no cut outs) having described them to me I am certain I have some (with countersunk washers?) on a piece of timber which I will look out and photograph.

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Well I'm glad that I am not imagining them. I really couldn't see that once fitted to a car that they would then be removed. Thanks Ruairidh

Location: Oakley hants

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Derek Sheldon
Well I'm glad that I am not imagining them. I really couldn't see that once fitted to a car that they would then be removed. Thanks Ruairidh


I can't vouch for the originality, Derek, but my '29 AD had the sidescreen locking screws when I bought it and they looked old enough to be original then.
As an aside, they are identical to the same items on my pal's 1926 heavy 12/4 Clifton.

Ian Mc.

Location: Shropshire

Re: when is a chummy not a chummy

Thanks Ian
Strange thing is my 1926 A12 Clifton has regular 1/4" set screws fitted, oh dear looks like more research , think that I have a picture of Val Biro's Clifton somewhere, same year a month apart.
There, it is reported, a coincidence that both my car and Gumdrop were in the the same farm auction in the late 60's. Val did bid on what was eventually to be my car but the bidding went too high so he bought the other. He was always interested in my car when we met up at shows, but he never let on.

Location: Oakley hants