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Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

I happened across an old advertisement for a TT rep built by Malcolm Tucker. The copy mentions that it had hydraulic dampers per the original works cars. Is this a typo or did the works TT cars really have an arrangement of hydraulic dampers?

Location: Sunny Seattle

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Yes, they really did Erich. You can see the Luvax dampers quite well in this Austin Harris photo.

http://austinharris.co.uk/photo/1931-irish-grand-prix/66

Regards,
Stuart

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

However, remember, Erich, that the Luvax hydraulic shock absorbers were like these shown
Here, not telescopic hydraulic shock absorbers!

Steve

Location: North Yorkshire

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Thank you Stuart and Steve. So they were used front and rear replacing the friction ones. But only on works cars, correct? Were they something that original EA Sports and Super Sports owners would have fitted as an aftermarket mod as well? I have not heard of others using them on their Ulster Reps.

Location: Sunny Seattle

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

I suppose there was nothing to stop a private owner fitting luvax. I can recall seeing two such examples, one a VSCC special and the other a Chummy. It doesn't seem to be a thing that happened often. Expensive, perhaps? I suspect not too easy to find nowadays though Steve might be able to comment on that.
Regards,
Stuart

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Luvax shock absorbers were widely used in the '30s and there are specialists supporting them. However I rather suspect that there may not be sufficient travel on the A7 suspension for them to function well. Might be OK on the back though.

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Thanks to Steve have a look at-

http://www.vintageandclassicshockabsorbers.co.uk/

Cheers, Tony.

Location: Melbourne. Victoria, Australia.

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Quote: Steve Jones
However, remember, Erich, that the Luvax hydraulic shock absorbers were like these shown
Here, not telescopic hydraulic shock absorbers!

Steve


They look not hugely different from the single arm Armstrong dampers which were on my A35 van 50 years ago (or indeed, from the double lever versions on my 1972 MGB GT.)

Ian Mc.

Location: Shropshire

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

On page 271 of the Source Book, picture 671 there is a picture of a Luvax shock absorber as fitted to the rear axle and picture 672 says" A 1930 Sports Two Seater in all its glory. Luvax shock absorbers were fitted to the front axle. Just my twopenny worth

Location: Sunny Devon

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

As shown in the Austin Harris picture that Stuart posted above.

Location: Melbourne. Victoria, Australia.

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Erich,

Andy Lowe sends this photo for you as well:

 photo C6FEAC42-ADD0-459C-B978-49141FA09387_zpsh18cmusx.png

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

The dampers in this picture don't look like Luvax to me. The body of Luvax is circular, these look to have indentations around the casing.
I have seen dampers like this fitted as after market to Morris 8s. I knew them as 'snubbers' and the body is filled with rubber which is distorted as the lever moves and uses the hysteresis in the rubber to damp the motion.
Interesting that they are mounted on the axle rather than the chassis.

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

I've just looked up shock absorbers in my 1937 Motoring Encyclopaedia and Luvax did indeed make some with the indents in the casing. The ones on the car therefore are Luvax.

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Jim, I think the rubber filled ones were Rotoflo.
Regards,
Stuart

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

I can guarantee that they are Luvax as that's my car on p271 of the Source Book and I took the photo after jacking the car up and much wriggling to take it! Apparently they were offered as an extra alongside 'works' cars of the time. I'm not sure whether they made much difference as already mentioned there isn't that much movement especially where they are located on the front axle but the same must be true of the friction types. However, a few years ago the car was most flattered when a chap with VSCC and Bugatti experience said that it was one of the best Ulsters he'd ever driven (round Goodwood). The car was 'lost' for about 20-30 years when it was stored in a dry barn following a rather tragic slightly unrelated story. Fortunately for me, this 'rest' kept the car's mileage down and therefore it drives almost like a new car (much like my Mk2 Ruby ADY 95 that is mentioned in Rinsley Mill's Book Original Austin Seven).

Location: Ferring, West Sussex

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Thank you all for the responses. James, it sounds like your car has them only at the front. Correct? I'm also curious if anyone has tried them on other Ulsters(Replicas and Specials).

Location: Sunny Seattle

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

hi erich,

ive had several pairs of the luvax come in on chassis over the last few years.

the round ones pictured, not the ones with cutouts. as on james ulster.

they were all mounted to the front. non on the rear. and strangley in the same way on an L shape steel bracket. differently to the ulster.

i took it it was a mod done supplied in the 60s, surprised its not in the companion.

i would imagine the ones with cutouts are extreamly rear.

i was told this type of luvax were fitted to french cars? amil car?

hope this helps. tony

Location: huncote

Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

My goodness, this is becoming hard work. Eric I'll possibly forgive you if you haven't got a Source Book and haven't seen seen p271 otherwise I give up ! The photo that I took quite a lot of trouble over is of the rear shock absorbers !!! So they are fitted to the front and back axles.

Location: Ferring, West Sussex

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

My goodness, this is becoming hard work. Eric I'll possibly forgive you if you haven't got a Source Book and haven't seen seen p271 otherwise I give up ! The photo that I took quite a lot of trouble over is of the o/s rear shock absorber !!! So they are fitted to the front and back axles.

Location: Ferring, West Sussex

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

As far as I can remember, when we had VE 4492 it was indeed fitted with Luvax shock absorbers front and rear.
They were fitted at the works for Seyd, the first owner for Brooklands use.
However, the arrangement devised by the works was pretty dreadful.
At the front the shock absorbers are fixed to a length of steel bar which is in turn bolted to the two holes on the very front of the chassis. It's all very flexible.
At the rear the shock absorbers are bolted to brackets fixed half way along the axle tubes thereby increasing the unsprung weight considerably. The arms are anchored to the ends of the very wobbly chassis extensions.
The Luvax shock absorbers are very heavy compared with Austin friction types.

The rear shock absorbers can be made out in this enlargement of a pic from Austin Harris's site...



and this from the A7CA mag...



these are the type that the factory fitted...

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Apologies Erich, I missed out the h in your name in my earlier odd double post...don't know how that happened i.e. the double post !!

Location: Ferring, West Sussex

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Sorry, all. I don't have a Source book so I'm going to have to get a copy.

Location: Sunny Seattle

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

That might be quite expensive, if you can find one . I think there is a reprint in the making.

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Henry
I have these two photos of the Waite accident at Ballystockart, just up the from where I live. I cannot really see how the Luvax dampers are linked to the chassis. Has anyone a drawing of the link or an original one to copy? I hope to eventually fit these to my car, they are already on the front.

Simon Thomas

Location: Near Ballystockart

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

I have two drawings of the front and rear of the Works Cars suspension clearly showing the hydraulic shock absorber fitment. Unfortunately i have yet to work out how to post pictures, so i have mailed them to the long suffering Ruaraid with a request to post them for all.

Weighing in on the Rotaflo shocks, Dad fitted a set of these to the back of his '30 Triumph Super 7 Tourer over 25 years ago and they have been a great success, totally transformed the ride and the road holding. They came off a '50-'60 Lanchester iirc.

Aye
Greig

Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Here are the drawings from Greig (or should that be Austin??):

 photo 100mphEngineLayout_zpssatn8z6y.jpg

 photo 100mphRearAxle_zps6nmcqqkq.jpg

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Yup, from my site. Specifically from this article about the 100 mph "Yellow Canary" streamlined Duck.

Location: Buxted, East Sussex

Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

And of course the 'Duck' type cars were quite different to the works TT cars or so called 'Ulsters' which as can be seen in the pictures had the damper bodies fitted to the front and rear axles.

Cheers, Tony.

Location: Melbourne. Victoria, Australia.

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

Quote: Ruairidh Dunford
Here are the drawings from Greig (or should that be Austin??):

 photo 100mphEngineLayout_zpssatn8z6y.jpg

 photo 100mphRearAxle_zps6nmcqqkq.jpg


Nice drawings but NOT the TT type chassis.
This is the 1931 single seater. Yellow Canary, Rubber Duck or Dutch Clog chassis.

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

The pictures were two I found while searching for pictures of offset single seaters while building our new one.

Glad to give credit to Austin for his pictures and his site and apologies to Ruairidh for spelling his name incorrectly.

Regards from the Colonies
Greig

Location: Port Elizabeth

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

The arrangement on the NZ Duck restored by Grant Cowie differed from this drawing. Instead of the damper being connected directly to the rear axle, this car had slave arm more or less parallel with the spring pivoted off the chassis with a link up to the damper mounted on the bracket shown in the drawing posted here. Don't think either arrangement helps with understanding the ulster mounting though.

Location: NZ

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

The works drawing is curious. The radius rods would seem to give negligible braking bracing but with short levers and the high friction turn in cable perhaps like old time Indianapolis cars braking was not intended.

It is hard to devise a workmanlike fitting for hydraulic sas at rear which utilise normal length arms, and Austin did not solve.

The handling of lowered models is obviously very different from stock cars, and the sas more effective with light body, but nevertheless I marvel that anyone could average 83 mph around reputedly bumpy Brooklands without the aid of hydraulic sas

Austins were skinflint not fitting to the Big 7. Even Ford Y had.

Location: Auckland, NZ

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Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

It's not a works drawing, it came from the article in Autocar magazine, (link to it in my previous post.)

They would use illustrations in lots of articles, and I guess they are more "interpretations" rather than measured accurate drawings.

Location: East Sussex

Re: Hydraulic dampers on TT works cars?

The Luvax damper on the rear is mounted to a two piece casting on the axle. I now have these castings. It occurs to me there very well not be a good photo of the linkage. Maybe a case for making what looks right and more importantly works!
Simon Thomas

Location: Near Ballystockart

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