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If you could start again what would you do?

Hi,

I bought a special project at the weekend off eBay (I know!).

It has a Gould body and has lots of parts missing. The chassis has not been lowered. There are no brakes, controls, shock absorbers etc. It has an engine of unknown quality and most of a gearbox. At the moment it's a blank canvas. I'm wondering how far I should go with it. I want it for stooging around my country lanes, popping into the pub for an orange juice and a packet of crisps, and going to vintage shows etc. I like the body and want to retain it.

What would be your thoughts on what I should do with my little car?

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Hi Tony,

Did you buy the green imp on ebay?

Tony.

Location: Huncote on the pig

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Good man! Hopefully a late night purchase too!?

As one who did the same with a 'special' as a first Seven, I'd suggest be really hard-nosed about just getting it running safely without spending too much money on unnecessary upgrades. Save that till you know you really want to keep it forever.

And perhaps seek advice in your nearest club about the best and cheapest route for the bits you are missing.

Do we presume it's safely registered?

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Add a few beers for maximum effect...


Essex Austin 7 club. Find us on the Internet!

Andy Shepherd in Alresford will be a good bet for parts.

If you struggle to find contact details for either, email me... or shout, I'm not so far away.



Location: Colchester

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

JonE is probably right, keep it fearly cheap for starters.

But don't be stoopid, there is a fine line between cheap and dangerous.

I would recommend 750 beaulieu on the 2nd July.

Get to meet the main dealers, and plenty of austin seven owners and there cars.

It's the biggest austin 7 meeting of the year, so worth attending.

Tony.

Location: Huncote on the pig

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Yes I did buy it! It seemed a good idea at the time, and the odd bottle of Miller Lite was definitely involved! :-) Funny enough, it started out blue, which I quite like. I may well end up putting it back to blue.

Probably paid too much, but I loved the look, still do with her sitting in my garage with an oil slick under her! There was not even the minimum number of bolts holding it together when we collected her hence one of the wheels nearly fell off due to a missing hub nut.

I think you guys are spot on, get the car running with minimum fuss, fettle as necessary, enjoy and then think about changes.

My pal suggested trying to fit reliant axles/brakes etc. On the face of it sounds like it might work, but I suspect it is much more difficult than it sounds. David Cochrane says my car dates to 1937 and would have had Girling brakes originally, but these are difficult to source, so suggested an earlier set-up. Just one of a number of issues I need to sort out.

Onwards and upwards!!!

Location: Essex/Suffolk border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

I will make sure I get to Beaulieu on the 2nd July. Sounds like a blast.

In the meantime is there anyone in the Sudbury Suffolk area that would let me crawl under their A7 to take some photos? would love to see how the brakes and running gear etc should really look. I have the Doug Woodrow book on order so that should help, but it would be great to see one in the flesh.

Cheers all!

Location: Essex/Suffolk border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Ooh! Forgot to say there was no V5, so that could be a problem.

Still going onwards and upwards!

Location: Essex/Suffolk border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Tony.

There is a Gould Imp advertised elsewhere. A red one. It is stunning. And I have been very tempted other than I suspect that its probably not going to hold its money as its quite specialist. A lair of R47's and some 19's with proper staybright caps would transform it.

Anyway. The pre griling brakes as you mention are stunning. I had a firbreglass bodied special essentilly with standard 1937 rolling chassis. Dad asked me how good the brakes were. I nearly spat him out of the cockpit!. Dont be tempted with drybaulics.



Location: not north wales any more

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Thanks for the heads up on another Gould. Be interested to know what it's valued at. The problem with my car is that there is no brake system at all. I'm starting from scratch. I'm told that the semi girdling brakes are impossible to find, so it's the older style for me. Sounds like yours worked real well!

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

http://www.martyngriff.co.uk/austin/

Location: not north wales any more

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

It was 8500 on car and classic

Location: not north wales any more

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Awesome car! If mine comes out half as good I will be very pleased. A load of work has gone into that. Love the front grill, is it a 7 grill? And the side door is a great idea. Lots of photos for inspiration and perspiration!

If it had been mine I would probably have fitted aero screens, but the screen and hood as fitted is really nice.

Thanks for the link., much appreciated.

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Looking at the photos, to my untrained eye it looks like the chassis was not lowered. That being the case that's one decision made. :-)

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Look again Tony, to my trained eye it appears the chassis has been lowered, still on a straight beam but certainly not std ride height.

Location: NZ

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Hi Ian,

Didnt know that was possible! How is that done?

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Just take some of the camber out of the springs, you can not go as low as a full sports set up, but on a light special 2 1/2" clearance between spring and front axle is enough.

Location: NZ

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Update on the car.

There is quite a bit of in and out movement on the end of the crank when you turn the engine over, so I thought I would have a quick look the engine. Bare in mind that the advert gave the impression that the engine had been 'restored', I can confirm that it hasn't.

Pistons 1,3&4 are a bit slack in the bore, whilst 2 seems ok, there's no new head gasket, but that's no biggie. Time to take the sump off, humm one bolt has been already sheared off. Strange. The sump comes off easy, too easy, complete with corrugated cardboard gasket. Take the screen out and see it's a 3 bearing engine. Boo! But hey, what's this? There is a bit of polystyrene on the screen. Ahh, must have blown on the moment I took the screen off. But there's more! Lots of bits of polystyrene! The words stitched up like a kipper have never been more appropriate.

Some of you may know of the young chap who advertised the car on eBay. I shall not say what I think of him, but caveat emptor springs to mind if you are tempted to buy anything off him.

Anyway, I need to decide what to do with the car. Four options Spring to mind:

Rebuild/get rebuilt the three bearing engine. Not sure many would want to.
Get the three bearing converted to two.
Get a two bearing engine and rebuild.
Fit a non Austin engine and maybe gearbox.

I'm not contemplating a fifth option of selling it.

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?


Wow Tony,

I admire how polite your comments re the young man are!

For registration purposes, an austin seven engine would probably be favourite, otherwise things may start to get complicated with DVLA when you fill in the forms for a new V5C.

I still wish there was a way we could have warned you about the vendor... anyone got any ideas?





Location: Colchester

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Well Tony, so often with a project like this there are moments when you wonder what you have started. Without a log book I would definately keep it standard and avoid any modifications to the chassis & running gear. It will also be a lot less work. Despite the box of horrors you have opened I am sure you wont have any problems getting parts to get the engine serviceable without spending a fortune or maybe finding a 2 bearing one. Spend the time & money on getting all the other bits up to standard as a top notch engine build could be done at a later date.

Good Luck!

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

it wasn't the same vendor as "those other ones", was it?

Anyway, as Yazz and her Plastic Population once wryly surmised - the only way is UP, Baby...

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Tony
Update on the car.
Anyway, I need to decide what to do with the car. Four options Spring to mind:

Rebuild/get rebuilt the three bearing engine. Not sure many would want to.
Get the three bearing converted to two.
Get a two bearing engine and rebuild.
Fit a non Austin engine and maybe gearbox.

I'm not contemplating a fifth option of selling it.

Any thoughts would be most welcome.


Better off contemplating the fifth option.
Get Rid of the car, Take a small loss now - than a drain on your finances.
We all do mistakes so next time ask this forum before you buy.
Good Luck

Location: West London

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Hi Tony,

I think we all get tucked up once in a while, my last was a 72 Alfa GTJ which I restored completely and sold at a loss so I know your pain, but the car was saved from the scrap man. I've come across many "full restored" cars that people have paid a lot for and they turn out to be a bag of nails so the problem is wide spread unfortunately. Selling your car is just going to pass on the problem to the next person who might do something even worse, get it kind of working and then sell on a death trap! I would do the same thing your suggesting and just get cracking, find the chassis number and try to find an engine to match (ish), might make getting a plate easier. You will end up with a great car and know it has all been done right.

Good luck with which ever way you decide to go,

Tom

Location: Eye on the Norfolk / Suffolk border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Hi Robert,

It was definatley a case of heart ruling head when I bid on it. Auction fever and beer don't go together without consequences I suppose.

I treat people as I would like to be treated, I don't rip people off and nievely thought that this guy was cut from the same cloth. How wrong I was.

Now I've been done I'd like to turn it around. I like the look of the car and still feel that I should complete it. If I have to get the engine professionally rebuilt it will knock me back financially, so I might just try a deep clean of the engine, bolt it back together and see if it runs. What have I to loose?

You are so right about this forum, just wish I had found it and asked some questions before I hit the bid button.

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

If you bought it through eBay you might stand a chance of a refund if you open a dispute. Most sellers don't want negative feedback but you might have to be patient.
Otherwise I'd see if it runs well enough to sell as a "doer-upper". If the chassis is sound and you can make it into a rolling with sound brakes and steering there will be some interest.
I've been trying to work out how and why you found polystyrene in the screen???
Lack of V5 is a bit of a problem though not insurmountable.
You may well end up spending good money after bad unfortunately so cutting your losses now might be more prudent. Selling it piece-meal can often pay better but will take time.
You have my commiserations, there are some unpleasant sharks out there with little if any conscience. Rest assured that what goes around, comes around and one day he will get his, though that is cold comfort for you.

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

JonE
it wasn't the same vendor as "those other ones", was it?
..


Sadly yes. Put the mobile number from the ad into Google and see what comes up!

Charles

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

I wouldn't start from there

Cheers, Tony.

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Tony,
Have you left ebay feedback? If it is the bloke I think it is he still has 100% feedback. An honest piece of negative feedback might help future buyers. Did you pay using paypal or a credit card, if so they may be able to help.

Have you asked him for a refund because he described the engine as refurbished and it clearly isn't? I would consider making a small claims court application against him if he refuses a refund. I am sure some of the experts on here would be happy to supply a report on the state of the engine and the cost of repair to back your claim.

It also looks to me that this bloke is a motor trader which might give you extra protection.



Re: If you could start again what would you do?

If the vendor is in the trade a small claims would be likely to find in your favour. They tend to see the consumer as the wronged party because the trade ought to know better and behave responsibly. They can usually see through fraudulent claims.
A request for a refund due to "not as described" is usually adequate reason for returns on sBay. They also want to keep their reputation.
It's worth a try .

Location: Ripon

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Tony Press
I wouldn't start from there

Cheers, Tony.

Cheers mate! That made me laugh!

I was on a bit of a downer yesterday, but spoke to a great bloke tonight who has got a complete set of brakes for me. Things are looking brighter already!

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Sorry Tony- shouldn't rub salt !

My three cars all needed many weeks work to get running properly- and one had suffered a 'full' restoration.

Best of luck with the recovery - I am sure you will have great fun with the resulting car.

Cheers, Tony.

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Tony, despite what people say the three bearing engines are not that bad, I had always avoided them but have recently build three in quick succession for people. Mr Dunford Jr advised me that he has found them to be extremely smooth running engines and he is quite correct, just make sure the crank is not cracked and you assemble the centre main correctly and you will be fine. It is a shame we are opposite sides of the globe, I have a lot of parts and would be willing to help you with anything you needed, I hate to see people ripped off in the way you have been. Hopefully there will be a few other genuine enthusiasts in the UK who will be able to come to the rescue, but if you are stuck for anything and willing to pay the postage drop me a line.

Location: NZ

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

If you decide to go the 3 bearing route, then make sure the crank isn't bent (This will cause the centre main to be out of line). This can be checked by putting front and rear on v blocks and turning it with a dial gauge on the centre main. If the crank is true and sound then turn attention to checking the crankcase, and that the centre main is in line. Some detail on a method here.

My best advice for the whole thing would be to check everything you have assembled make sure there are no horrors in the back axle etc, and make a list of things you need. Get to Beaulieu this weekend and have a good rummage at the stalls, chances are you'll find most of what you need. No doubt seeing the cars assembled will give you all the inspiration you need. It may not have been the ideal start to your project, but given a good dose of enthusiasm and elbow grease you can still end up with a car you can be proud of.

All the best and happy fettling.

Location: New Forest

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Timothy Payne

My best advice for the whole thing would be to check everything you have assembled make sure there are no horrors in the back axle etc, and make a list of things you need.


Thinking back, I still have a load of crown wheel teeth in a tub from the axle I bought with my project chassis from a well known purveyor of second hand parts. He was a little embarrassed and supplied me with a second axle. I doubt Mr Williams will be happy to oblige, though he does seem to have a fairly large collection of old sh*te to assemble his specials from.

As for your axle Tony, having seen the torque tube on Saturday... on the basis of the chips in the pinion, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the crown wheel looks like this...

 photo Capture_zpsw5zw2c0j.jpg

If so, the diff casing may be distorted (mine was) so a replacement CWP set and bearings may not be be sufficient...

If you don't find one at Beauliea, and Andy doesn't have one, try Tony Betts for an axle... I was poised to get one from him until the other fellow stepped up (b.t.w. thanks Tony B) and Tony splits them and has a little look before sending them out! Yours is the later D type axle, and I'm fairly sure from the shape of the brake cross shaft (which didn't look much like the one on the yellow peril) it's the version with rod brakes... I would have taken a look underneath if my back would have let me bend

Buckets of enthusiasm, elbow grease and a good sense of humour... I also think you should ask Mr Williams for a substantial partial refund on threat of court action. See how he likes it!

Have fun

Nick

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

For the avoidance of any doubt, the 'Mr Williams' referred to above is NOT Dave Austineers Williams, who I would trust with my Granny's handbag.

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Gosh... yes... no... sorry Dave. No relation. Williams isn't even the bloke's real name!

Location: Colchester

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Nor is he related to me in any way!

Location: NZ

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Can I put in a word in favour of the 3 bearing engine as well? If you want to thrash it in racing and hillclimbs you'll need a Phoenix 2 bearing engine but for general motoring the 3 bearing engine in my Nippy is brilliant, smooth and flexible, pulls from low revs, cruises at 50mph and returns 45mpg.

Location: Isle of Wight

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Thanks for all your kind words of support. I had intended to go to Beaulieu but just could not face the long haul after spending Friday night/ Saturday morning with a migraine. Saturday afternoon was spent sleeping in an armchair but still felt pretty crap. Ahh, the joys of migraines!

Anyway, went to a local vintage show at Long Melford on Sunday and spoke to some nice A7 owners and took lots of photos. It was a great day in the sunshine. One chap had clocked up hundreds of thousand miles over the years in his Austin!

I'm out of my comfort zone with the engine, but going to pull it apart to see exactly what I have. There is a bit of a clonk when you turn it over and there is play on the camshaft but as nothing has been done right (two pistons are back to front for instance) I don't know whether there is a major issue or just bad workmanship. Hoping for the latter, but have a nagging thought it's the former.

Onwards and upwards!

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Humm,

Looks like an eBay dispute/return is not possible because:

It's a car, and
I did not use PayPal.

Doh! Caveat emptor springs to mind. Still going to seek further advice though.

Anyway, dropped the steering arms off for crack testing at ELB in Sudbury. Hopefully all is well. Starting to get to grips with the task ahead of me. It's daunting but reckon still do-able. Need more beer though.

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Tony

You may not know about the A7ca archives. That's the Austin 7 Clubs Association. The archives are digitised on line and contain the cards listing changes to the cars and dates. There are the spares catalogues which show most of the car parts down to nuts and washers and give their part numbers.

You will sadly have now learned to ASK first then act......there are many many good helpful people in 7 circles.

Get stuck in and just pretend you got it as a challenge......you are on the right course to becoming an A7 expert.
Get to club meetings and find out the books you would benefit from.....the A7 Companion etc.

Dennis

Location: W Devon

Re: If you could start again what would you do?

Hi

Personally I would probably rebuild the non engine components and think about rebuilding the engine to something special. The amount of work to do a full fast road engine really means that starting for a bag of bits or full engine in my experience is little different.

David