So we have an annual market of 25 sets roughly speaking. Some sold at £180 and some at a higher price. Both come from the same patterns (which someone must own and control the use of).

As an end user it would appear odd for two suppliers to have to dig deep to fund similar products that on a strictly commercial basis are marginal at best anyway. Even odder that they'd then have only half the addressable market.
It's a commercial decision for the suppliers but as an end user I value the continuity of supply and the price/quality equation. I fear that both may be compromised with two independent manufacturers.

Charles

Hi Charles, answer to the question above, ( I bought the pattern and tooling from Steve). Nobody else has the rights to use it.

However as you know, these Pistons are made to Austins originals. With some changes to work with modern use. So although people shouldn't take one and directly copy it, and our choice of rings gap pings and spacing rings, and length of gudgeon pin.

There is nothing to stop anyone from doing so, as long as they pay for there own pattern and tooling.

This is more of an ethical choice, rather than taking time to design a new product.

Same as when we solved why shackle repaire pins were breaking, and others copied us.
Same as we took the poorly centred rear engine seals, made them to an accurate centred billet. And others copied us.
Same as my cast iron brake drums that have proved themselves over the years. I have another trader who suggest he is looking at making his own. I'm sure these will come from China though. Not the UK.

Amongst others.

Sorry I digress, this thread is for the future of Pistons.

Tony.

Location: Huncote on the pig

As I mentioned in my previous post, I have been stocking these pistons for some years, supplied by Quarry Engineering. I was running out of some sizes, and I understood (from Tony's posting last November) that he was moving away from selling new spares. So it seemed reasonable that I should try to continue stocking these as I assumed that no-one else would be, and it would be a pity if they disappeared from the market. I was rather surprised and alarmed when I read this post - the last thing that I want to do is to tread on anyone's toes, but I genuinely believed that Tony wouldn't be interested in restocking them. Hence my phone call to him to try to explain my situation without discussing it via the forum, which I am now reluctantly doing.

As a matter of interest, suppliers can end up making the same part at the same time without realising that another supplier is working on the same thing. This happened to me about four years ago with kingpin reamers. I had spent quite some time sorting out a drawing, tracking down suppliers, trying to gauge demand, getting quotes, etc, and was just about to place an order when Tony suddenly posted that he was making them. So a quick phone call to him and decided that it wasn't a good idea for us both to be doing them, and as he had (just) beaten me to it, he would go ahead and I wouldn't. Seemed reasonable to me, although there was a certain amount of wasted time & effort on my part.

David

Hi David,

As I sed, I was a bit bemused to your intentions in the phone call. I though you were intending to make your own sports Pistons.

As in, designing a new product, building its reputation etc.

Being slow, the penny has now dropped.

your intension was to copy the quarry Pistons exactly, to sell them as slipper Pistons and fill in the gaps. Doing so because I wanted to sell out my new stock.

Yes I want out of new part, and as you know I advertised it. if anyone wanted to buy me out.

When I put the new spares up for sale, the quarry piston patterns were included in the sale. If I wasn't making them, then the next owner could.

Only the owner of the patterns, be it me or the next owner. Will have the rights to sell the Pistons produced from them as quarry engineering slipper Pistons.

Although I can't stop anyone from copying them by design. Please note copycat Pistons should not be sold on, by useing quarry engineerings reputation.

They will be a fake at best.

Perhaps instead of copying the Pistons, the phone call should have been about what I would be charging to use the patterns to make more Pistons.

Think of the Pistons in the same way you would your new steering arms.

Anyone can copy Austins originals.
But you have taken the time to re design them, market them. And build there reputation.
How would you feel if someone took your new design and directly copy it.

As for the reamers, I know you made a double ended reamer. The people who bought the reamer from the thread on the forum, did not want the double ended reamer. They wanted a copy of Austins original. With three cutting faces.

I you want to talk further off the forum about what it will cost to use the quarry piston patterns you are welcome to do so.

Tony.

Location: Huncote on the pig