Welcome to the Austin Seven Friends web site and forum

As announced earlier, this forum with it's respective web address will go offline within the next days!
Please follow the link to our new forum

http://www.austinsevenfriends.co.uk/forum

and make sure, you readjust your link button to the new address!

Welcome Austin seven Friends
This Forum is Locked
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

JonE
Ruairidh
out of interest are you heeding the carbon lead advice, or just replacing unit and using with what is there? Sorry if I've missed this from earlier part of thread.


I have used the existing copper core leads for all the units.

👍

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

If you don't already know of him try Googling Distributor Doctor. I was recently told of them and have had good reports from a new A7 owner who is also an MG man. Website is rather scathing about some of the repro stuff about and supplies dizzy items to original manufacturers' specs as well as rebuilding. Not cheap but good and reliable I'm told. He is also producing an electronic DK4 (his own manufacture?) which he is currently testing on his A7 special. I would like to visit as he is only 8 miles from me but I understand he is not too keen on callers.
Steve

Location: Deb'n

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

thought id see what people think before joining in.

i like the idea of new unworn parts.

and when the bosch 009 came out, it was good. well if you added an oiler, machined it so the gear went to the same position as austins etc.

but like everything, if you want to sell things. make it cheaper, in lesser quality materials. and you take over the sales.

so accuspark started making the bosch 009, and plenty of people complained. the sports world had rotor arms flying all over the place.

the new distrib, im sure will be made in china. and at a cheap price/ cheap materials etc. sorry its not for me.

only thing is we dont get much of an option with new parts for the old DK4. all the new bits come from china. the rotors fall apart as the rivet isnt fitted properly. the condensors only do 300 to 500 miles. the caps fit like a **** in a bucket.

for me its an original distrib, with new bushes. i can fit bushes for anyone wanting them. then use new old stock rotors, points, condensors, cap etc.

and it will still be running well after the new ones have exploded all over the place.

tony

Location: huncote

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

I don't want to keep banging a drum here if no body wants to hear it, but I have to agree with Tony. I have used Distributer Dr a number of times and posted about him here, I have found him helpful over the phone and the quality of the products good. Understand Ruairidh's argument about commercial cost, I am capable of doing my own engineering so do not consider my time, it is all part of the hobby for me, and the cost of parts is minimal as I can make most. I just wanted to get the point across that there are other options to good running and reliability whilst retaining originality. I will also add that I have not tested an electronic item against one of my rebuilt units, should anyone wish to send me one I will test extensively and be completely objective reporting my findings
Right I will shut up now and say no more!

Location: NZ

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

I would consider sending you one of the ones I have here Ian - email me and we can discuss this further as I cannot see we would think differently about he improvements, once tried. Longevity concerns me but somebody has to be the first to try these things

The one I fitted last week has now reached Switzerland - I am on the edge of my seat each night opening my email, as you can imagine! Surviving the journey will be a good test to start with.

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

As previously indicated I fitted a Powerspark DK4 Dizzy to my Ruby. However if you look at the Powerspark FAQ page www.simonbbc.com/faq-page and scroll down there is a paragraph on Copper HT Leads, basically there is not enough resistance in the lead and recomend the use of Silicone leads, otherwise the life of the unit will be shortened.
I contacted the company and spoke to the Technical Rep.who confirmed this. I pointd out that it was bad they did not incude this information in the fitting instructions. He seemed a bit surprised that it was not incuded and was going to speak to the manager about this. I questioned him on fitting the "Acorn" ends to silicone leads he said it could be done by them and if I supplied the lengths required he would make them up for approx £30 delivered. The leads would have 90* plug covers fitted. I asked him about fitting the brass spade plug connectors to keep the apperance as period as possible, he did not know about these. I have ordered new spade ends and will send these to Powerspark to see how and if they can be fitted to the new leads. My thought is, according to their write up, it is the plug lead resistance that is important. If they can fit "Acorn" ends then surley they can fit spade ends for the plugs as the leads have been changed. Finally based on the above thread and information the new Dizzy's either Acuspark or Powerspark do not appear simply to be a direct replacement as claimed.

Location: Perthshire

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

I too have purchased one of these distributors but haven't had time to fit it yet. Just as well since my Ruby didn't make it to Autokarna this weekend and got treated to a ride on the back of a low loader.

I contacted Accuspark about the HT leads and they recommended the silicone HT leads. I ordered a couple of metres from ebay and some right angled plug connectors. If you look at the Accuspark website under HT leads there is a useful video showing how to make up the leads. It seems they use brass spikes, as supplied with the plug connectors to make the connection, which are inserted into the core of the lead and folded over to make contact with the plug connector. I assume this can also be done with the tiny brass discs inside the acorns that also have a hole in the centre for the spike to pass through and then fold over?

Location: Doncaster

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

The life of the unit will be shortened by using copper leads? how, exactly? The HT side of the system involves the coil and the plugs, not the electronics of the distributor, which is in the LT circuit. I'm prepared to be educated, but it sounds like a plan to get you to spend another 30 quid to me.

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

I too had a discussion with Accusparc about suppressed HT leads, and as a result ordered a set which arrived the following day. In the meantime I fitted my original cap and leads which have suppressor plug caps. Previously my electronic flasher unit had ceased to flash but with the suppressed plug caps in use, now flashed as expected. So I guess interference from the unsuppressed copper ht leads must have stopped the flasher functioning. I made up the new leads and put them on the car. Started engine and flasher unit didn't work. Put the suppressor plug cap leads back on and flasher worked. I have fed this back to Accusparc that maybe their leads do not suppress as much as expected. In the meantime I am using the ugly suppressor plug caps.

Roly

Location: Upton upon Severn

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Hi Alan,
My Understanding is That Electomagnetic Interference can Cause problems with the Electronics in the distributor,
the same thing happens on moderns with computers.

Just my view
Colin

Location: TINOPAI NZ

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Colin Reed
My Understanding is That Electomagnetic Interference can Cause problems with the Electronics in the distributor, the same thing happens on moderns with computers.


so, in practice, does that mean that adding one of these is unwise unless one has a perfectly overhauled dynamo, as well as posh leads? What are the main sources of such interference?

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Ok. So what they have done is inadequately shielded the unit to cut costs?

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Better shielding is probably the real answer, but would clip on ferrites fitted to cables -as commonly used on electrical home entertainment equipment prevent problems?


Steve V.

Location: Polegate, East Sussex, United Kingdom

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Alan
The life of the unit will be shortened by using copper leads? how, exactly? The HT side of the system involves the coil and the plugs, not the electronics of the distributor, which is in the LT circuit. I'm prepared to be educated, but it sounds like a plan to get you to spend another 30 quid to me.


The life of the unit being shortened by using copper leads? Often the case with aftermarket ignition modules unfortunately. The relatively high resistance and high frequency suppression of carbon string leads greatly reduces, but in my experience doesn't necessarily cure the dead electronics problem.

Whenever there's a spark at the spark plug, there will be a reflected high frequency pulse that goes back along your nice low resistance copper leads, then through the HT side of the coil, this is induced as a magnetic field in the coil's core, which in turn is induced as a high frequency pulse that goes back through the low tension side of the coil to the switch; the switch here is your aftermarket electronic gizmo.

OEM electronic units like GM or Lucas HEI have circuitry to effectively deal with the reflected pulse even when Copper leads are used (even though copper leads are not recommended with these systems). However, this is often not the case with aftermarket units _ I have learned this the hard way with two failures on my racing car; one of them as I was on the grid at Silverstone.

Location: N W Kent

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Being a bit thick, I bought a cheap set of silicone leads, cut off the ends that go into the coil pack, trimmed the insulation back, poked the floppy wobbly silicone inner through the acorn and washer and tightened the leads as normal. All worked fine without the need for a spike. I didn't think there would be an issue...

I pulled the boot back from the spark plug end and it appears that the silicone core is folded back before the connector is crimped, just as you would with copper. I'd be surprised if you couldn't fit spade ends in the same way... still at £30 it's probably not worth DIY.

Location: In the garden

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Nick
Being a bit thick, I bought a cheap set of silicone leads, cut off the ends that go into the coil pack, trimmed the insulation back, poked the floppy wobbly silicone inner through the acorn and washer and tightened the leads as normal. All worked fine without the need for a spike. I didn't think there would be an issue...



Until today... when a loss of power and a strange unbalanced chugging caused me to look for the reason for the missfire. Yup one silicone lead had come adrift at the acorn. A short strand of thin copper wire inserted in the centre and bent over, then normal service was resumed.

Location: Waiting for the bathroom

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Jon, this is the item installed:

https://flic.kr/p/V99HNp

I think one of the reasons it makes such a difference is that, unlike conventional points, it is firing every single time.

As I've mentioned before, my only hope is that longevity can be assured.

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Bob's right in saying, for our motors, you don't need a wide plug gap and a super duper coil to fire them. The swirl that the side valve induction and head introduces plus the relatively rich mixture with what is a more volatile fuel means that the flame front is very quick and relatively little advance is needed compared to other engine designs. I suspect the big advantage in fitting a new distributor, be it one of the new DK4's, Bosch, fake Bosch or whatever - is how badly worn the original was and the reduction in points scatter. Points wear is eliminated by the new DK4 but an aditional risk of the electronics going phut is introduced - which is harder to fix by the side of the road (in the middle of nowhere, you're late, raining, dark, etc; you know the scenario).

I fitted a NOS 60's style Lucas distributor for a Relaint OHV to my Opal. Before changing over I checked the timing with a stobe light (something I've never used before). Despite the DK4 being in, what I thought, good condition; the timing was scattering around 4 degrees. The NOS has no discernable scatter. It does have slightly too much advance and I'm still trying to sort that out - but it goes well (thanks to Nick Lettington who prompted me on this solution).

But it doesn't look like a DK4, so the purists wouldn't like it - but to me it is a Lucas rather than of unknown origin. I suspect the other part of this discussion about originality will always come up when something different is being installed. We're all calibrated differently on this with the level of distance and reliability we're seeking being another factor. But I would claim there's no one can claim to be truly original, after all we all use modern fuel and lubricants at least, never mind modern cranks, steering arms, springs, etc. Each to his own, our cars are an expression of us as individuals.

Dave

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Hi Dave,

I agree, more or less, with everything you've written except the second half of your last sentence and hope that if I feel the need to express myself, I won't have to do it through my car.
I'm just off now to fit an electric motor to my gramophone, the wind up one will not produce exactly 78rpm all the time because it is over eighty years old and worn out.....maybe I could do something to improve the sound while I'm at it!! [ [ ]

Location: Stretham, Ely

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Dave,
The Lucas dist you have on your Opal; is it a 25D4 (40872 A/D)? I have one fitted on my RN and one on my pretend Ulster. Been working on both cars for 15 + years no problems. They were fitted to the 600cc Reliant Regal engine according to Reliant Regal tech data I have. Do you know where I can obtain new points and condensor from as it would be good to carry spares? I got them originally from Speedy Spares Services but they are no longer listed on their website. At least they have black caps and no nasty unrepairable electronics. I have manual adv/ret on both cars so scope for messing when driving. They also have vacuum adv/retard.
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Dave,

Holdens sell condensers, rotor arms and caps but don't list points. I think those type of distributors were also used on minis but not certain.

Speedy Spares is an awesome place - I used them regularly when I ran a 1973 Commer Highwayman.

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Dave,
Thanks very much. Will have a look.
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Dave,
Forgot to mention that mini type is similar except it rotates the other way. A relative gave me one from his old mini so I could see that the body of the distributor would fit with hardly any mods.
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

I have been called many things over the years but never Dave!!

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Bob Culver
...Ithen any performance difference will be due to altered effective spark timing. Do the electronic distributors have an electronic advance?

What plug gaps are being used with the new distributors?

In everyday running I found that altering plug gap effectively alters advance effect.

Has anyone compared the HT running advance to see just what the real advance curve shows? Do those with good manual or manual override distributors report any betterment?


I hope that Bob's questions won't get lost in the thread, so bringing them forward. Experimentally, couldn't the manufacturer be encouraged to come up with some of this information, as they must surely have considered it all when they developed the unit. It can't all be luck.

If the performance improvements starting to be shown (versus unworn originals/equivalents) are potentially having so little effect on originality (i.e. its not really any hassle to swap back to the original system at any time) then it might just encourage users who are slightly less practical to use their cars more?

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Sorry Dave, don't know how to spell Ruaridh.
er Dave (that's me!)

Location: Sheffield

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

RUAIRIDH! Sorry.

Location: Sheffield

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Dave - 😂

Jon,

I have no idea what the advance curve is on these but they feel as near perfect as I have experienced which suggests, to me, that they have it correct.

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

What's wrong with being called Dave - I've been called a lot worse!

Yes the Reliant distributor is a 25D4 for the Relaint 600cc. Apart from the rotation it's the same as a Mini or MM so all the consumable bits are readily available. Mine takes the quick fit one piece points GCS101, the earlier dismantled points don't fit as there's no pivot post. Good to hear it works well for others. Mine hasn't any vacuum advance - it didn't come with one - I've locked the rotating baseplate and a Glenmorangie cork sealing the body hole.

(the other) Dave

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

The technical details of the new electronic distributors are beyond my comprehension.
However I have one fitted to my 29 Chummy, which I have owned since 1970,during which time it has covered over twohundredthousand miles.
I can honestlysay that today it has run more smoothly quietly and powerfully than at any other time in my ownership.
If it continues so to doI shall be very happy Septophile.

Location: Wessex

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Ian,
My chummy is getting quieter but that's more related to my ageing
hearing than all the rattling and whirring of the mechanical bits.Your Christian name is much easier to spell than Mr R Dunford's.
Cheers,
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

Re: The new electronic DK4 distributor

Second one fitted today. A bit more difficult this time because I had to change the gear to fit a mag/coil conversion. No miles on it yet but I have the same smooth tickover, low speed torque etc.