France is to ban sale of petrol cars by 2040.

Netherlands going to ban sale of new petrol/diesel cars in 2025.

Norway similar.

Many other countries/authorities thinking the same.

London mayor wants to ban petrol/diesel cars in Greater London by 2050.

Some of these a long time ahead, but the writing is on the wall.

What is the future of our 'hobby'/business?(not to mention sport!)

Are our cars going to be worthless?

Location: Bonnie Galloway

Who knows ?
I can't believe how the powers that be believe that "zero emission" vehicles are the future. Zero emissions,Oh,now where does that electric come from ?.
Disposable cars,nasty batteries and driverless,just takes someone to hack in to crash them all.
d@mn I must be getting old.

If I'm still alive in 2040 I'll be 90 years old, beyond swinging a crank and won't give a flying...

Seriously though, we have to accept that this may happen and our cars will join the ranks of historic devices like Newcomen's Atmospheric Engine.

If you want to keep yours running you'd better start stockpiling Aspen 4T for those special picnic trips to the seaside. Just like those that folk still reminisce about from the days of rationed petrol in the 1940's. I think there's a photo of one such on my calendar this month? Or did I remember to move on from June?
Plus ca change...

Location: Ripon

I fear this is politicians talking. A few months ago there appeared some Stagecoach hybrid buses proclaiming how green they were, they are noticeable by their absence now. A chance comment at the last club meeting brought the response from one of our members, who works for a bus company, that the hybrid bus fuel consumption is no better than a diesel bus. That is when they are not in the garage awaiting repairs/spares. What provides the electricity to recharge electric vehicle batteries? A recent TV programme revealed that there is a problem with the grout securing the north sea wind turbines to their pile bases.

Sadly we are now going to strip mine the plant for the ore, generate a lot more electricity to refine it to get enough lithium for the batteries required for all the cars. And if the hydrogen cell solution is used will still need to find more gold and platinum for the plates used in them.
Then there is the issue of them both having a tendency of catching fire😒

In our eco friendly world the desire for new is overwhelming,yet we are encouraged to buy new technology with no regard for the manufacture and disposal of the old, recycling is encouraged with no regard for the pollution it causes and perfectly good vehicles are put on the scrap heap for the sake of a minor repair that costs more than the vehicle is worth, yet all we ever hear about vehicle emissions the world has forgotten about the how the Iron ore has to be dug out of the ground and processed how plastics have to be made and all the energy these possesses use. In the long run a vehicle that is used for 20 plus years or even longer must cause less overall pollution than the manufacture, shipping and disposal of its several eco friendly replacements.
As for fuel we have a few alternatives, hydrogen, bio and gas for example, but as far as electric cars go until the oil company's run out of oil and manufacturers start making a universal battery pack that can be popped in fully charged by solar energy at your local garage the electric car has not got much hope at the moment.

Location: Pembrokeshire.

Just some non entity French politician banging on his eco drum. It'll not happen, not by 2040 but perhaps later when they eventually manage to make electic power more efficient and of longer range. It may, however give the vehicle manufacturers something to think about for the future of motive power development. I doubt that the internal combustion engine will suddenly disappear and certainly during what's left of our lifetimes there'll still be some "sans plomb" available to run our Sevens. Can't guarantee what it will cost, though...

It was only a couple of weeks ago that UK wind/solar generated power exceeded nuclear generated.
I may be mistaken but I understand that most lithium only exists as a salt, the vast majority of which is in a high lake in Peru. China has bought the lot, along with most of the heavy metal available in sub-Saharan Africa.
They are going to be running our nuclear industry, there's food for thought.
Pedal power is the answer, a fuel equivalent of 1700 mpg is well worth investigating!

Location: Ripon

Banning the sale of petrol cars isn't the same as banning using one - you can still drive round using a horse and cart if you want - I expect provision will be made for historic vehicles in 2040 (like Sevens and hybrids).

Colin

When/if a massive solar storm hits earth it will knockout all the computers and electrification of everything ,fortunately old internal combustion engines should still work provided there is suitable liquid or gaseous propellants available.
Bring on the apocalypse.

Location: Oxfordshire

I also recall that in 1970 they said that fossil fuels would run out on 40 years.
And Teresa may said she would get a thumping majority.

They can't predict 2 months let alone 30 years.

All you can say about the future is that it will be much more like the present that you might think.

Andy B

Location: Norf Essex

I also recall that in 1970 they said that fossil fuels would run out on 40 years.
And Teresa may said she would get a thumping majority.

They can't predict 2 months let alone 30 years.

All you can say about the future is that it will be much more like the present that you might think.

Andy B

Location: Norf Essex

I've been thinking for a while (well...about ten years actually!) that we need to start thinking about what we could run old cars on in the absence of petrol, or any crude oil based products. Once the balance is tipped in favour of a new technology, the old one will likely be dropped very quickly, particularly given the risk and expense of getting oil out of the ground.

Bio-diesel is a reality (albeit taxed the same as fossil fuels for anything but personal production/consumption). But what about bio-petrol? Sounds like a fun Chemistry project for someone. The spirit is likely to be alcohol-based I guess, plus some additives to aid carbuaretion, combustion, cylinder lubrication, etc. All of which need to be something we can lay our hands on at reasonable cost, probably grown in a field (or a by-product there-of).

Then we'll also need something non-mineral to lubricate the slippery bits. Castrol R is already out there. How do you make grease from that?

I suspect it'll be easier to run vintage engines on agrarian fuels and lubricants than their later, high-compression, tighter toleranced successors. Then we'll have a carbon-neutral Austin Seven, and no-one can complain about that.

Or is that just never going to happen?

Location: Norfolk

It's nothing to do with government regulation, it's all about economics, the smart money is no longer with fossil fuels. Change will be faster than you think, car companies are already thinking about miles not cars as they will own the fleets of autonomous cars waiting to pick you up and take you down to the pub and then go off and pickup someone else. If you look at the uptake of Uber with the younger generation, car ownership and the need to have a driver's license is not that desirable.

Welcome to the future, our generation will pass soon enough probably well before 2040.

Cheers

Mark

Location: Rokeby, Victoria, Australia

Some food for thought here.

All new Volvo models introduced after 2019 will have electric motors as well as petrol/diesel!

What about Heavy goods vehicles?

What's to become of the enormous Petro chemical industry?

I doubt that vintage or classic cars will get a special dispensation on this.

The Bio option seems to be the sensible solution.

Location: Bonnie Galloway

Check out Brazil !

Cheers, Tony.

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Location: Norfolk

(The allergic please dont read)

I have expected the electric car mania bubble to burst but it grows ever bigger. As with the introduction here of native language babble, electric car promotion has become very PC and livelihood is endangered for many in positions who dare question the logic. The justification here is less CO2 produced. Whilst electric cars reduce local CO2 production over first few years of high use, it is whole of life world CO2 production which really matters.
As with most activity, the real propelling force is the lobby for business opportunity, profit, and political profile achievable from support. In these days of terrorism, including cyber terrorism, any nation which makes its whole transport system dependent on the National grid would be nuts.
There is a vast amount of fossil fuel remaining, and would be even more if it were not for the Yanks running Dodge Rams to fetch the groceries.
Re CO2, the biofuel argument seems to assume the land used to grow would otherwise be concreted over.

As far as fate of the hobby goes, Sevens and other older cars devoid of electronics and complex degradable plastic components and being models economic of fuel, are the ones most likely to continue to attract any interest at the base level.

Location: Auckland, NZ

I read in the paper the other day that an electric car burnt out whilst being charged overnight.

As the margin shrinks between generating capacity in the UK and peak demand, it appears that we are to replace the energy currently available in petrol and diesel with energy from the grid. A few simple calculations show that this new demand to be placed on generation and distribution will be enormous. I have yet to learn of any plans to solve such short-fall as we march steadily towards our first brown-outs and black-outs.

If you have a stationary engine under the bench, now is the time to dust it off and get it rigged up with a generator!! It will soon be needed for your modern's batteries!!
Ron

Just flicking through one of the modern motoring magazines while waiting at the docs,Autocar I think. It made depressing reading,at one end of the scale there's the 600 bhp Jaguar,4 massive exhaust pipes,another company introducing 4 wheel steering for stability.
The other end calls for more 20mph zones,Pay as you drive, Volvo introducing a new brand for their electric vehicles.
Glad I got called in.

Cars will charge when there is capacity for instance charging may start at 1:00am so we do not need anymore capacity we will however use more power overall. Which means lots more off shore wind farms (for the UK), they are experimenting with using the same technology as the floating oil rigs.

My wife still rides horses so we will still drive our Austin Sevens the masses will go electric.

Location: Rokeby, Victoria, Australia

Mark, regarding capacity: just do the sums. Regarding when: it will be when the battery is low plus where you have managed to find a place to charge - and where there isn't a big queue!
Big investment going into cars and batteries but not into sufficient generation or the infrastructure electric cars will demand.

You plug your car at home or on the street, the charging will not happen until there is capacity. If it is to work the charging has to be smart, most electric car owners charge at home and they choose to charge when the power is cheapest although this will become automated, charging stations only supply about 20%. As most new models will go 200 miles plus it does not need to charge daily.

Lastly a tesla (large electric car) uses about 200w/h per km most people travel on average only about 30km per day commute which is only 6kWh/day that is the same as small electric heater for 2 1/2 hours at 1:00am. The savings of converting the street lighting to LEDs will just about cover it and if you have a bit of roof space 6kWh per day is a small system although you will need home batteries to charge your car at night but that is another story. By the way I generate on average 19kWh/day from my home solar it's like owning your own oil well and currently not taxed but that may change.

Location: Rokeby, Victoria, Australia

Ah there is a little advertised scheme called Short Term Operating Reserve STOR. Any body with some spare cash can build one using containerised truck engines driving generators, you give the keys to the National Grid and get paid so much for stand by and running.

I have read of a scheme whereby electric cars are used to store electricity to feed back into the grid when needed. Same principle as the pumped storage hydro schemes.

Our lovely little cars will run on anything that goes bang when sparked, as owners found in the second world war. We just need a bit of creativity and ingenuity, often shown on this forum. Homebrew alcohol anyone?

Location: Isle of Wight