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Re: Stubborn hub

Tony, if you are not familiar with A7 hubs then Steves advice is vital. The hub is in two parts and the outer part needs to be removed first. This gives access to the hub nut refered to by Steve.
When this has been removed then the inner part of the hub can be removed which can be done with the 3 leg puller but it is essental to split the hub and remove the nut, otherwise serious damage can result.
Brian

Location: Near M1 Jtn 28

Re: Stubborn hub

Thanks guys, I'll get the proper puller on order.

Btw are there suitable bolts to hold the girling style back plates on, or is it rivets only?

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: Stubborn hub

Tony,
Girling backplates have 4 off 5/16" BSF setscrews to hold them onto the front stub axle. Nothing special about them but high tensile ones 8.8 grade would be OK if you need to purchase some. Perhaps A7cherished supplies stock them. I am confused about your mention of rivets. I assume you have the Girling front stub axles as fitted to cars from 1936 onwards. These are a very different design to the earlier types.
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

Re: Stubborn hub

Brian Hutchings
Tony, if you are not familiar with A7 hubs then Steves advice is vital. The hub is in two parts and the outer part needs to be removed first. This gives access to the hub nut refered to by Steve.
When this has been removed then the inner part of the hub can be removed which can be done with the 3 leg puller but it is essental to split the hub and remove the nut, otherwise serious damage can result.
Brian


Unless you can extract the split pin through convenient hole in the threaded part and undo the hub nut with a suitable socket. If so you can get the whole lot off in one - and back on

Location: Soggy Devon

Re: Stubborn hub

Went to a local vintage show at West Bergholt today (there was a lovely Teal type 35 there) and looking on the auto jumble stall found something that looked like an Austin puller. Took a chance and paid £5 for it, got home, cleaned it up and it fitted! 10 minutes later had the hub off. One happy camper!

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: Stubborn hub

Can't beat the right tool for the job!!!

Ian Mc.

Location: Shropshire

Re: Stubborn hub

Dave Wortley
Tony,
Girling backplates have 4 off 5/16" BSF setscrews to hold them onto the front stub axle. Nothing special about them but high tensile ones 8.8 grade would be OK if you need to purchase some. Perhaps A7cherished supplies stock them. I am confused about your mention of rivets. I assume you have the Girling front stub axles as fitted to cars from 1936 onwards. These are a very different design to the earlier types.
Dave.

Hi Dave,

The parts book I have is admittedly for an earlier car and shows rivets, the red workshop manual says bolts so I was confused. The, ahem, gentleman that sold me the car only used two bolts per plate and used normal bolts with nylocs. I believe he got them 90 degrees out of position, with the brake shoes at 3 and 9 o'clock. Shouldn't they be at 12 and 6 o'clock?

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: Stubborn hub

Tony,
Two at the top (horizontal) and two at the bottom (also horizontal.)That is for front stubs. Not sure about rear. This puts the brake cam lever at the bottom of the backplate and the adjusters at the top of the backplate for the front stubs. The stub axles should be tapped 5/16" BSF but yours perhaps has stripped threads and someone has therefore fitted bolts rather than screws.
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

Re: Stubborn hub

Tony,
You must use all 4 bolts/screws per stub here as they are transmitting the braking forces from brake shoes to stub axles.
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

Re: Stubborn hub

Thanks Dave,

Found these pics (thunder storm woke me up!).

https://nigelhwright.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/30042007177.jpg

https://nigelhwright.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/01052007184.jpg

I can see what is happening now. The guy before me has either drilled out the stub to take his own bolts to hold the back plates on, or has put smaller bolts in the existing holes. Will check later.

And I was wrong. With the adjusters/actuators top and bottom the shoes go to the 3 and 9 o'clock locations. So he got something right.

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: Stubborn hub

With front hubs it can be difficult to remove the split pin at times. Since it won't be reused ruining it does not matter. By tapping a suitable socket onto the nut you can use a 1/2" square drive to remove the nut. The split pin is soft enough not to cause a problem, just slightly stiff while it shears, then the nut comes off easily. After removal of the hub the remains of the split pin can be removed from the stub axle; job done!

Re: Stubborn hub

I have worked on many older makes where split pins have been simply sheared to remove. Where pins are hard to get at and/or all rusted it is certainly a temptation. But real trouble arises if the split pins are not soft, and many on market are not. Then tend to seriously damage the nut thread, which is inconvenient with threads now uncommon.

However better than separating the hub with a cold chisel or tyre lever, as evidenced on many old Seven hubs.

Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Stubborn hub

Bob Culver


However better than separating the hub with a cold chisel or tyre lever, as evidenced on many old Seven hubs.


It took me nearly an hour to split one of the hubs in half! It was gummed up good and solid, so much so that I thought the previous owner had superglued the two halves together! I managed to work a thin knife blade in and gradually move it around the circumference then get a small screwdriver in. Eventually it saw sense and fell apart. The other one came apart in my hand.

Location: Essex/Suffolk border

Re: Stubborn hub

I've had to tighten one of the front hub nuts on my 1935 car and it took me well over an hour (obviously had the palaver of taking the split pin out) but one of the main problems was the tight fit of the socket. It got jammed on the inner aspect of the outer casing. I assume you can get thinner sockets but for fine adjustment to line up the castellations I resorted to a box spanner that must have been the only tool for the job back in the 1920's and '30s. Does anyone know of a make of thin walled moderately large sockets ?

Location: Ferring, Worthing, West Sussex

Re: Stubborn hub

I use a 14 mm plug socket, suitably turned down to fit in the hub.

Location: Wales

Re: Stubborn hub

The wheel bearing should be a tight (press) fit in both halves of the hub, in good order it will be difficult to prise them apart, in fact NEVER do so or distortion will result, if the bearing is loose replace the hub.

Location: NZ

Re: Stubborn hub

Having blasted the girling back plates I've noticed that the two sets of holes that hold the brake lever and adjuster assemblies are different sizes, so I have no idea which goes where. Can anyone help me please? Thanks!

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: Stubborn hub

Thanks for that info Ian.

Location: Ferring, Worthing, West Sussex

Re: Stubborn hub

James Anderson
I've had to tighten one of the front hub nuts on my 1935 car and it took me well over an hour (obviously had the palaver of taking the split pin out) but one of the main problems was the tight fit of the socket. It got jammed on the inner aspect of the outer casing. I assume you can get thinner sockets but for fine adjustment to line up the castellations I resorted to a box spanner that must have been the only tool for the job back in the 1920's and '30s. Does anyone know of a make of thin walled moderately large sockets ?


Don't bother with a socket, W/W box spanners are reasonably cheap on Ebay and the best thing for the job.

Re: Stubborn hub

Ian Williams
The wheel bearing outer diameter should be a tight (press) fit in both halves of the hub, in good order it will be difficult to prise them apart, in fact NEVER do so or distortion will result,.


That is why it is better to use the hub puller to remove the outer hub first, then undo the hub nut, then put outer partly back on and with wheel nuts on and longer locating countersunk head screws in place pull inner and bearings off the stub. The larger inner bearing can then be drifted out of the inner hub with a piece of tube against its outer race...or by careful drifting gradually a bit at a time all round.

Dennis

Location: NW Devon

Re: Stubborn hub

Oh and if the bearings were loose in the hubs they may be glued in with bearing locktite.........this needs to be heated to the temperature given in the locktite technical info to soften it to remove the bearing.

Dennis

Location: NW Devon

Re: Stubborn hub

Assembled as Austin intended with a paper gasket the hubs should pull apart quite easily, but where lotsa goo has been used can develop into a saga. Unless wading it suffices to just pack the races and immediate adjacent with modern wheel bearing grease and this greatly reduces leakage problems and need for lotsa goo.

Races should be a good fit in the hub but often are not. If the edges of the large race are not lightly gripped it tends to work loose and wear the hub, resulting in play in the wheel. Particularly in the past, some owners cut very thick gaskets which allowed the bearing to be free. If race not just pinched can be packed with rings of card to achieve.. (At least one half of the hub should be a good fit. Looseness is of little consequence at the rear, so slack inner hubs can be used there. But oil will find its way around sealed bearings if these used)

Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Stubborn hub

The old bearings had to be pressed out, so I'm hoping the new ones will be a good fit.

Still don't know which way up the back plates go, they are not symmetrical. Can anyone help?

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: Stubborn hub

Also, does anyone know the pitch of the 5/16 thread for the back plate mounting bolts? I need to run a tap down the holes to clean them up. Is it 22 tpi?

Thanks!

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: Stubborn hub

According to the second table,

https://mdmetric.com/tech/thddat8.htm

The 5/16 bsf thread pitch is 22tpi.

Location: Colchester

Re: Stubborn hub

Thanks Nick, much appreciated!

Has the Austin been out lately?

Location: Suffolk/Essex border

Re: Stubborn hub

Yes, I probably drove quite close to your place doing a school leavers' disco (I refuse to call it a prom) a week or two back.

The yellow peril is still doing a fine impression of a German battleship making smoke. A little embarrassing among the Ferraris, Bentley Jags and such...

I really must find time to properly sort it out.

Your still welcome to pop over with camera, tape measure and note book any time. The kettle is always on...

Regards
Nick

Location: Colchester