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Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Alan
Yes, I was one of those who stopped racing with the vscc when they banned radial tyres. I took to the hills and the Bert Hadley Championship. As a tyre engineer I never understood the reason, as you could buy radial construction tyres in 1911. I started using Dunlop R5s a year or two later, but by then the damage was done.

I've heard it said there are two positions in motor racing. First, and nowhere. I think all truly competitive racers would agree with that.


Alan

It was one of the most stupid decisions made. In looks there is very little between an R5 and a Firestone. So what was they real reason? They also banned the old L section 15s, which I used, but that made me run on new R5s which was a revelation for me as they made me lap 3-4 seconds faster. As I said, to me it seemed as if Austins were there to make up the numbers and be tolerated as long as we didn't go too fast and embarrass the Bugattis and Bentleys. When they tried to ban 15"wheels I spent more time writing to the club than I did tuning the cars. By the way, when this was going on I heard from a committee member that we had been accused of running with titanium con rods, what does that tell you?

Regards Frank

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

There is a very real difference between R5s and Firestones. Like about £600 a set. I found new R5s better but by the time they were a season old, the benefit had faded some.
I think the vscc were trying to force us to use 3.50x19s but there was nothing suitable at the time. Main problems were there were only motorcycle tyres and those had nothing like enough speed capability. I wrote and told them that. At the time I knew a bit about tyres, and thought I'd put a well reasoned technical case, but to no avail, the committee didn't want to listen.

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Alan
There is a very real difference between R5s and Firestones. Like about £600 a set. I found new R5s better but by the time they were a season old, the benefit had faded some.
I think the vscc were trying to force us to use 3.50x19s but there was nothing suitable at the time. Main problems were there were only motorcycle tyres and those had nothing like enough speed capability. I wrote and told them that. At the time I knew a bit about tyres, and thought I'd put a well reasoned technical case, but to no avail, the committee didn't want to listen.


I agree, they wanted us to use 18s or 19s and there were a few accidents because of this. My belief is that at the end of a spin you can get a big side load when the car is about to stop and the rims are very narrow so that the tyre rolls under and it grips fiercely. I tried them and rolled at Oulton just like this. I ended up racing for 15 years in the Vintage All comers races on 400mm rims, which they allowed as they were apparently available in 1930s, using Michelin cross plies which looked just like radials! The last batch was made in 1964, so I was racing on tyres that were 30 years old for about 15 years. You can imagine how much grip they had but it was great practice for controlling slides! My greatest joy came when I beat that tosser Stanley Mann on them. By the way, a bit of softener kept mine fresh for three years. Did you think that they knew the cost would put so many people off?

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

It wouldn't take much of a brain to work that out. The cost of a set of R5s and new wheels was probably half the value of a lot of racing sevens at the time. I was lucky I got a massive discount from Dunlop because of my work.
Actually it did me a favour. After a while I realised hillclimbing suited me better than circuit racing.

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Alan
It wouldn't take much of a brain to work that out. The cost of a set of R5s and new wheels was probably half the value of a lot of racing sevens at the time. I was lucky I got a massive discount from Dunlop because of my work.
Actually it did me a favour. After a while I realised hillclimbing suited me better than circuit racing.


So why do you think they wanted to put Austin owners off? They never asked the ERA owners to race on 17"R5s, I believe they carried on racing on L section 16s.

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

I don't know, but i always thought the committee were getting grief from owners of expensive but pedestrian Bentleys, Bugattis, Nashes and the like, who didn't like getting beaten by Austins. It was disguised as a drive for originality, but it wasn't. Owners of more exotic cars continued to use anachronistic wheel and tyre sizes. Austins weren't fast because of the tyres, they needed the tyres because they were fast. If owners of said exotica had put in the time and effort we did, and you more than any, we wouldn't have had a look in.

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Alan
I don't know, but i always thought the committee were getting grief from owners of expensive but pedestrian Bentleys, Bugattis, Nashes and the like, who didn't like getting beaten by Austins. It was disguised as a drive for originality, but it wasn't. Owners of more exotic cars continued to use anachronistic wheel and tyre sizes. Austins weren't fast because of the tyres, they needed the tyres because they were fast. If owners of said exotica had put in the time and effort we did, and you more than any, we wouldn't have had a look in.


Alan
I think you have put it rather well, But does it mean that you are you implying a class struggle? are we the Oiks or simply Class 1 & 11?
The problems for Gary and me began when Gary took the Class Record at Prescott in 81. The club issued Rules for Austin sevens months later and following that it got worse and worse. It was brought home to me after a race at Silverstone where I had overtaken a Bugatti. As I returned to the paddock a spectator lining the return road shouted
"Beating a Bugatti, you ***ed it now with the Committee". I recently went to a talk by Graham Obree , the One Hour record man. He said that the reason for his success was due to adversity. Every time that he developed a new riding position it was banned so he came up with another one.
Does anyone do the Vintage Allcomers in an Austin anymore?

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Interesting historical observations. Sadly nothing has changed and I decided to cease VSCC racing after Silverstone this year.
Allan, if you have a moment could you email me as I am interested in hillclimbing next year and would Value your advice. Are you by any chance at Prescot this weekend?
David .

Location: N. Oxfordshire

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Historical??!!! I lived through it, that's worrying.
Frank, I struggle to answer your question. However, I do think through the 90s and early 2000s there was a definite tightening of eligibility regs and that it was aimed at Austin Sevens. I don't think they would have succeeded with any other car, but because of the demographic of A7 owners they got away with it. I never had a problem, socially within the club, it was just every time I turned up at an event, I felt rather than make it easy they were trying to find ways of stopping me. In the end I voted with my feet. I didn't get that anywhere else. Strange thing is it seemed to be race and speed events only. I competed in rallies and trials and found it completely different.

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Alan
It wouldn't take much of a brain to work that out. The cost of a set of R5s and new wheels was probably half the value of a lot of racing sevens at the time. I was lucky I got a massive discount from Dunlop because of my work.
Actually it did me a favour. After a while I realised hillclimbing suited me better than circuit racing.


Why do you think that hillclimbing suited you better?

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Alan
I don't know, but i always thought the committee were getting grief from owners of expensive but pedestrian Bentleys, Bugattis, Nashes and the like, who didn't like getting beaten by Austins. It was disguised as a drive for originality, but it wasn't. Owners of more exotic cars continued to use anachronistic wheel and tyre sizes. Austins weren't fast because of the tyres, they needed the tyres because they were fast. If owners of said exotica had put in the time and effort we did, and you more than any, we wouldn't have had a look in.

Agree with that.
If it wasn't for the Austin Seven the VSCC wouldn't be the club it is,especially encouraging younger drivers to old cars and competition.
It was said to me once "You can do anything you like till you start winning"

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

I found I liked the precision of it. You have to get it right- one mistake blows the whole run. You don't get that in circuit racing.

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Austin in the Shed
Alan
I don't know, but i always thought the committee were getting grief from owners of expensive but pedestrian Bentleys, Bugattis, Nashes and the like, who didn't like getting beaten by Austins. It was disguised as a drive for originality, but it wasn't. Owners of more exotic cars continued to use anachronistic wheel and tyre sizes. Austins weren't fast because of the tyres, they needed the tyres because they were fast. If owners of said exotica had put in the time and effort we did, and you more than any, we wouldn't have had a look in.

Agree with that.
If it wasn't for the Austin Seven the VSCC wouldn't be the club it is,especially encouraging younger drivers to old cars and competition.
It was said to me once "You can do anything you like till you start winning"


How very true. You should read the cutting comments in the quarterly hillclimb report when Gary Bishop took the class record at Prescott in 1981.Terence Brettell was good enough to come to his defence in the following quarterly issue but that event set the scene for us for another twenty years.

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Alan
I found I liked the precision of it. You have to get it right- one mistake blows the whole run. You don't get that in circuit racing.


Yes, I think that that is one of the reasons why I liked it. On the circuits you seem aware that you have a second chance or even a third. It leads to you analysing the details of your preparation more. I have far more detail concerning Prescott and Curborough than I have about Cadwell and Donnington in my black folder and many more gearbox mods for hillclimbing and sprinting.

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Frank Hernandez


How very true. You should read the cutting comments in the quarterly hillclimb report when Gary Bishop took the class record at Prescott in 1981.Terence Brettell was good enough to come to his defence in the following quarterly issue but that event set the scene for us for another twenty years.



well what did you expect? A young interloper bringing a meticulously prepared car and beating a member of the "establishment" driving a car that was doubtless dragged from a shed and given a dusting prior to the event. Jolly unsporting!!

I think thats typical of the attitudes of the times. I remember in the same era being scrutineered behind a well known Shelsley Special. It was not in the best of condition. It was nodded through, while I was given the most thorough scrutineering Ive ever had. My car maybe didnt have paint some places it should have had, but it was well screwed together. It was only when I remarked on my membership of a professional engineering institutuon and my willigness to protest his decision that I was given a pass ticket.

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Is all this business re VSCC circuit racing and the anti-Austin Seven people now history or is it ongoing? Just curious as I haven't been a member of the club for many decades. When I was a member some people were very helpful to me as a young inexperienced competitor.
Dave.

Location: Sheffield

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Frank Hernandez
Alan
I found I liked the precision of it. You have to get it right- one mistake blows the whole run. You don't get that in circuit racing.


Yes, I think that that is one of the reasons why I liked it. On the circuits you seem aware that you have a second chance or even a third. It leads to you analysing the details of your preparation more. I have far more detail concerning Prescott and Curborough than I have about Cadwell and Donnington in my black folder and many more gearbox mods for hillclimbing and sprinting.

Is there any truth in the story that you had a different gearbox for every hill and circuit Frank ?

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

Austin in the Shed
Frank Hernandez
Alan
I found I liked the precision of it. You have to get it right- one mistake blows the whole run. You don't get that in circuit racing.


Yes, I think that that is one of the reasons why I liked it. On the circuits you seem aware that you have a second chance or even a third. It leads to you analysing the details of your preparation more. I have far more detail concerning Prescott and Curborough than I have about Cadwell and Donnington in my black folder and many more gearbox mods for hillclimbing and sprinting.

Is there any truth in the story that you had a different gearbox for every hill and circuit Frank ?


Partly true but you have to bear in mind that we were racing for over thirty years and started with possibly 33bhp and ended with 44bhp. So, we used over time three gearboxes for Cadwell, two for Mallory, four for Prescott and three for Curborough. That selection gave us enough variety for the other tracks and sprints. When you are short of power you need to maximise the use of what you have.

Re: Message for Frank Hernandez

There was a magazine article some years ago about Frank et al and it had a brilliant picture of the "gearbox wall" in his workshop.

Charles