Right, time I think to cut out the small talk and sort out what all the numbers are on A7's and IF there is any correlation between them.

Bill's numbers quoted do not appear in the Register of Surviving A7's so that is difficult for me to relate them to the overall picture.

The 'Always Quote this Number' item on the Assoc's web site (up dated by Phil Baildon and me) and the original article in Grey Book 1990A, are the basis of the current reference points for the numbers. I'm sure there must be something in the Source Book, but I cannot see it at present.

In updating the Register for the latest 2005 edition I have used Excel spreadsheet data sorting to try and clarify all permutations in the numbering etc of the KNOWN 10,000 surviving A7's. I must have looked at every car at least five times in the last year, so apart from numro blindness, I do now have an idea how things are running........ and what are clearly mistakes.

SO... I think a article is in the offing for the Grey Mag about numbering, therefore anybody who can supply me with the BODY number to their car (stamped on the transmission tunnel behind the handbrake opening) together with either the Chassis No or the Car No. I would appreciate it.

The Register data base now has a coloumn for the body number, eventually the web site and the 2010 edition of the Register will also contain a column with the body number.

From the other item on this Forum it appears pre 1930 cars may not have had the model type letters, I have photo's of AG's etc on the prop tunnel.

more to come I'm sure.

Sandy Croall, Registrar A7CA.

Sandy,

I have been asking for and recording Body Numbers on the Pram Hood Register for some years now. I haven't counted but I've probably got a couple of dozen or so. I'll try to get round to extracting them for you. Another thing I try to get people to tell me is the date stamped on the centre of the back axle banjo case. Provided it hasn't been changed of course, I think that this can give a far more accurate date of manufacture than the date of first registration.

David

Agreed David, your Pram Hood records are very good and have been a great help to me with the Surviving A7's Register. Any information is welcome, it may not appear on the web site or in the printed register, but everything gets recorded on the data base (Excel spreadsheet) except owners details, if they accidentaly reach me I delete those items straight away (on a need to know basis - I don't need to know who owns what, that's what Club Memb. Secs. do).

Sandy

Hi Sandy,

My 1924 AB Tourer (Chummy) has three number stamped into the back of the rear chassis cross number, each is preceded by a letter in the following way:-

E????
C????
B????

I am assuming that E = Engine Number, C = Chassis Number and B = Body Number. I have passed the details of these numbers onto David Cochrane, although the number following B was very difficult to read.

I believe that this type of numbering was only found on early cars and I see no evidence of it on any of my other Sevens, next in line being 1928, no doubt someone out there will know exactly when this ceased.


Ruairidh

The numbers stamped on the back of the rear chassis cross member leave the Body Number blank on four cars dating from May to July 1925. I only have a small sample to work with so I don't know if this was the beginning of a trend just to record the engine and chassis numbers in this place, and whether the practice of stamping numbers here ceased soon afterwards.

I have pulled out the numbers for you Sandy and will e-mail them to you direct.

David

Ruairidh is correct in that the Chassis, Engine, Body numbers are stamped on the rear vertical face (near side) of the rear crossmember. As far as I can ascertain this continued up until around about late '26, even after the chassis rails got deeper and grew lips either side. (I think the latest I've seen was in the 26 thousand era of chassis). But if R's car is early '24 it should have 4 numbers for each item, not 3. Where David's records show some chassis' with a blank after "Body", I'd suggest they'd be on cars in places such as Australia where the body was built locally. That certainly applies in this country (Oz) where the body (with doorskins)is generally of steel built around the floorpan and aluminium scuttle ex Longbridge, starting I think in late-'24 or early-'25. Where the car was fully imported it will have the all-ali Longbridge skin and the body number stamped on the x-member. As a follow-on from my comment about Letters stamped/not stamped on tunnels, the Pramhoods of course had their A1 or A2 or A3 numbers stamped on the disc on the nearside front door-pillar. (And if you're reading this, Ruairidh, your parcel should be packed up for it's long trip in the next couple of weeks. As I'm involved with the Commonwealth Games here in Melbourne my spare time has been restricted of late). Cheers, Bill

Bill Sheehan wrote:
> if R's car is early '24 it should have 4 numbers for each item, not 3.

Ruairidh's car does have 4 numbers for each of the 3 items, as he stated in his posting of Feb 7th.

Out of 289 cars listed on the Pram Hood Register (which includes chassis, replicas, etc) I only have 25 Body numbers listed; unfortunately I didn't make a note every time someone told me about numbers being stamped on the rear chassis cross-member, so I only have 7 of these recorded so far. However, I am sorry to (partly) explode your theory Bill, but my car (British born & bred) has C 10135, E 10135 and B blank, and I know of 2 other standard English Chummies (all 3 from mid 1925) like mine. Certainly I would agree that chassis that left the Works sans bodies would also have B blank.

Another oddity that the Pram Hood Register shows is that the Car number A1 and A2 series followed the chassis number, whereas I haven't found any correlation between the A3 series of Car numbers.

I would be very grateful if everyone with cars built up to the end of 1926 could e-mail me (pramhood@ingineur.co.uk) with any numbers stamped on the back of the rear chassis cross-member, or even any that have been painted/stencilled. Also the Car No. stamped on the disc on the nearside front door-pillar.

TIA, David

Thanks for the correction, David - my error was a combination of speed=reading and not using glasses at 73 next month. Re missing body numbers - most intriguing, as the theory always "worked" for out here. Apart from the '23 and the '25, the only Longbridge-bodied car I have is the '24 sports, on which the "rebuild" and repainting for the first Australian Grand Prix in 1928 included replacing the back half of the broken chassis with part of a '27 one with it's up-to-date shocker mounts, plus the larger brakes and wheels. Thus no stamped number to admire except next to the nose-casting. Re current Oz Pramhoods, I've given up trying to get people to reply even though I know they're out there, so I'll soon send David the list of those I do have. Presumably they'll find their way to Sandy. If you ever find out why no body-numbers stamped on some chassis with Longbridge bodies, I hope you'll let us all know. Cheers, Bill

Discussing the problem of getting people to understand what the numbers mean, in particular what the 'Car No.' is, it was suggested it would be better thought of as the (car) 'Assembly Number', which apparently is what most modern cars have (If there's any Flack on this idea, I will front it, otherwise the suggestion to clarify the meaning of Car No. came from Andrew Jarmin).

It seems to fall into place neatly and would aqree with the Austin Ledger Book formats, the surviving four show the Chassis, Engine, body etc on each car listed, there ar 9,999 in each ledger, the ledgers matching the first 2 digits of the car no, e.g. A8, A9, B1 and B3 are at Gaydon (all the others are missing/lost etc.) Note B and B2 are not at Gaydon.

Sandy

OK, 'B' is not 2 digits, neither is 'C', but other than these two, all's 2 digits - You know how pedantic Mike W. 'The Bear' can be... look how he's making Aunty suffer.

After reading these replys and sand blasting my Chummy body yesterday, I looked for a number and there it was where Sandy said it would be. So would just like to add how helpful this forum has been, while I am restoring my 1927 Chummy. I will be sending the number to you Sandy.

Sandy, I don't know if this is of interest, but my car details are as follow:
Austin Seven Chummy KA 6684
Model KD Tourer
1st Registration 6th March 1927
Est, production date September 1926
Current colour Green/black
Body 23171 4
(This is on top of propshaft tunnel)
Car A3 3989
Engine M 24344
(This is on engine and rear member of chassis)
Chassis 24279
(This is on front and rear members of chassis)
I've got a picture of the rear chassis number, and there's also a B on the rear chassis member, but with no number after it.

David Williamss 07860 547056 (Northampton area)

I've been recording RN saloon body numbers (where these are available and not lost with a floorpan change) for some time, and I have sent them to Sandy. The body number helps to weed out RP saloons masquerading as late RNs.