Hi everyone. I've just been browsing on E-bay and notice that there are several of these radiator temperature guages advertised. I know they're probably not 'original' as far as a Box is concerned but I'm sure I've seen cars with them fitted.

For someone like me who is likely to experience overheating probably more than in the UK, I was wondering if there was any worth in fitting one.

The one thing that bothers me is the length of the sender unit - is it too long for the header tank on an Austin? Don't fancy buying one & then finding out it didn't fit.

(I gather these things were fitted as standard on Morrises during the late 20's & 30's )

Any advice?

I assume that the calorimeters supplied by the Seven Workshop would fit your car -- probably the ones on eBay are similar?

David

I have fitted the seven workshop calorimeters to chummies and early boxes successfully.They were about £40.their no. is 01225868696 if you want to check .mac

Hi Recky, the early type with the swinging needle is much more preferable than the pipe of red liquid. I had one, but found I was looking at it all the time, and when ever it went to hot, I got all bothered, yet prior to fitting it on the same journeys I had no problems at all.

I think they are a distraction. I sold mine at on Ebay last year. Now if you want some details on how I adapted a Rad Cap to fit one I can send photo's etc. (well a good friend of mine can, he did the work for me). The basis of the cap was an earlier screw cap fitted with a plate inside, a clearence hole drilled down the centre and the winged cap type internal sprung fitting fitted in place. I still have the cap with a mascot on it now.

The tube enclosing the bi-metalic strip was long enough to reach the water, but if you are serious about checking the water level and/or the temperature, then I would drill a hole in the header tank and fit a modern device that is likely to be more accurate.

I always check my water level at most stops.

Naomi

There are two main types of temperature gauges One is the ‘Motometer’ patented by the ‘Benjamin Electictric Company Ltd.’ London and know as the ‘Boyce Motometer’ this one has the thermometer and measures the air temperature above the water. As far as I can remember without checking, William Morris pinched the idea for his Morris Bullnose cars and was immediately embroiled in a long legal challenge for infringing the Benjamin Co. patent. The case was found against Morris who had to pay a substantial fine. Not to be beaten he designed his own version which was know has the ‘Calorometer’ this is the one that has the needle and is always the one you see fitted to a Morris! The key thing about this one was that it measured the temperature of the ‘water’ instead of the air above it as in the Motometer. The Benjamin Company was not happy about this, but Morris argued that his was a totally different instrument and this was upheld by the courts.So ther you go, Motometers on Austins and Calorometers on Morris.

I had a Calorometer on my A7, does that mean I shall be excommunicated.

Phil

Hi Reckless,

I've fitted four blade export-type fans to all my cars except the mag engined ones (anyone know if you can get four blades that run that way?), and have driven over the highest passes in Europe serveral times (we also tow a caravan behind one of the cars, although havn't ventured abroad with that......yet). We did boil but not as frequently as I thought. When it got really hot we used to take the bonnet off and put it on the back seat too.

What you really need is a good working rad core, perhaps one of the fans I use, and a gentle right foot. We found 2nd gear in the Pearl at about 16mph got us over most things (Barcelonette, Stelvio, Simplom etc.), Ulster was better at 22mph in 2nd (Gloslockner, Vntoux, Picos D'Europa and Gd St Bernard etc.)and the Chummy (with 4:9), in 1st at about 12mph (we had to reverse a lot also in this car in Norway). From memory you live near Provence (think I remeber this from checking out your we-link some time ago, could be wrong), so many of the passes/areas above will be well within reach for you -provinding you have applied three days before I assume-, you are very lucky, it's around 1500 miles fro us from Glasgow and takes over a week over driving, then we have to go back again.

I don't have a Calormeter on the Pearl but all the other cars do, and I find it quite useful, you do know quite quickly however if you are boiling. Incidently I use an 1" SU on the Pearl, an 1 1/4" SU on the Ulster and the original Zenith on the Chummy. The SU's fair much better with fuel vapouristation, presumably because of the pump, a cold damp cloth on the fuel line helped us over Ventoux -from the steep side-. I'm sure some of the South American Adventurers will have tales to tell, how much would I liked to have joined them last year?

Have fun in France, I have!

Ruairidh Dunford

Thanks everyone for the advice so far. I think you're right about having an eye on the guage all the time. Perhaps it's better not knowing, and you can usually tell when there's a boil on the go anyway as more often than not it starts with a bit of vapour lock before it gets too bad.

Opening the bonnet, or taking it off altogether is a good rememdy and I've done it a few times already. I'm surprised, however to hear that you need to drop down to 2nd in a Pearl to get up some of these mountain passes. My box will romp up most things in 3rd and I often have to back off a bit just to avoid the risk of breaking the crank, and just keep it down to 25mph or so. She climbed up to the summit of Mont Lozère last year (a cyclists purgatory) and went all the way to 1450 metres to the car park at the summit in 3rd. The engine is bog standard, and with the Zenith carb.

I'm going to have a trot over to Mont Ventoux one day (on a clear day you can see the summit from here - its 100km away) I reckon it'll be a good trial.

Wish me luck next Sunday (not tomorrow) the highest pass were going over is at 1400metres, and there's a lot of snow still about over 1000m. At least the air will be nice and cold!

Does anyone want any pics for the magazine & some copy by the way?

I'm sure Ruairidh would love some pictures for the Grey Mag, he's doing an excellent job up there for the Scottish Club AND the A7CAssociation - which IS International. I'm surprised such a young lad has the time.....

Naomi

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Does anyone know where to obtain right-hand-drive replacement Boyce Motormeters? All the ones that I have seen are LHD. In otherwords the lens on the thermometer tube faces the passenger, and not the driver, in a RHD car.

Mike

Hi Reckless,

you wrote

"I'm surprised, however to hear that you need to drop down to 2nd in a Pearl to get up some of these mountain passes. My box will romp up most things in 3rd and I often have to back off a bit just to avoid the risk of breaking the crank, and just keep it down to 25mph or so."

Don't forget I was telling you how I prevent the car from boiling, always better to let the engine rev freely than load it and, as you point out, risk breaking th crank (living up to your name!!!). I am usually loaded to the gunnels with camping equipment and need to get back homealso.

The Col De La Bonnette is, as far as I know, the highest PASS in Europe at just over 2700m, the others I mentioned are similar heights and present quite a challenge.

You wrote:

"the highest pass were going over is at 1400metres, and there's a lot of snow still about over 1000m. At least the air will be nice and cold!

Does anyone want any pics for the magazine & some copy by the way?"

I hope you enjoy the rally it sounds like my cup of tea! As Naomi points out, it would be great to have small write up and some good quality photos of your trip to publish in the A7CA Magazine, please send them to me at

a7caarticles@aol.com

Have fun

Ruairidh Dunford

Will do. I've only got "dial-up" so the photos will be compressed a bit.

Oh,Oh, Boys, Did you miss me? I have been in ST.Moritz, skiing for a month. Lovely men! Well, Mr. Reckless and Mr, Ruairidh what adventurers you are. Oh. I do like rugged men ., are you? I went up Box hill in surrey in my darling chummy. It did'nt get hot and bothered at all,but I did a bit,as I took my new beau, Quentin...... It has got one of those guage things. I never look at it. Tiggs XXX

By gads Tiggy you really do have the measure of me!

I'm off to throw some large stones and push over a couple of trees, watch out Quentin, rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

RuggedXXX

Mike, The Boyce meters are ampidextrous, I would agree the Calorometers are Left and Right handed, the needle on mine swing clockwise (RHD) from cold, but I understand the export models worked the other way.

Phil.

Phil, you are a silly man, the calorometer glasses are swoped (front to back) round that's all.

Rrrrrr. goodness me, does the other half know what's going on.

And Tiggy, we must get together some time to discuss resorts....

Naomi.

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Sorry chaps, yet another typo! The instrument in question is indeed a Moto Meter not a Motormeter.

Incidentally, I am a bit worried about the use of the word calorimeter. Ian (further down this thread) indicates that William Morris used Calorometer - with a big C, and spelt slightly differently (with a central o) -to describe his needle-type thermometer. Elsewhere various other iterations have appeared.

In fact the use of the word calorimeter (with central i) should strictly be used to describe an apparatus for discovering specific heat or calorific values, not temperature.

Regardless of William’s clever play on words, the items which we stick through our radiator caps, and on which we rely to indicate the water temperature, are called thermometers.

Having been controversial thus far, I might as well finish the job! Aunty Naomi’s assertion that swapping the glasses over on a Moto Meter will change it from LHD to RHD is abject round objects.

I ask again - please, where can I purchase a RHD Moto Meter.


Mike

Mike, Aunty Naomi? good gracious me.

But in fact I had been to the local and warmed myself by the fire, prior to my last reply and thus seemingly got things a little wrong, however having now had a look at the history of the Moto Meter - go to this web site >>> http://www.prewarbuick.com/id378.htm <<< I cannot see how it makes any difference from where in the car you view the coloumn of red or blue fluid through the aperture, so it's irrelevant to say RHD or LHD.

Yes they are nice, I found my Calorimeter a distraction, but felt better that it measured the water tempertaure, rather than the water vapor temperature by the Boyce Moto Meter. I suppose if your sat round in a pub you could claim the water never got hotter than boiling point, whereas the vapor can of course get extremly hot. But such chat is for those happy occasions when we are relaxed, no hurry, children left home, aunty's with friends etc etc.

Naomi

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Hello Aunty

Thanks for the website address which you gave ……

http://www.prewarbuick.com/id378.htm

I was already aware of this excellent history of Moto Meter though I am sure that others will find it of interest. You may care to sample also …….

http://www.car-nection.com/yann/Dbas_txt/mascotsh.htm

which contains an amount of Moto Meter stuff as well as much of interest on “Hood Ornaments” generally. There is a deal of other information available for a good google.

Back, if we may, to the ‘which hand drive’ discussion. I think the veil on your splendid hat is causing your view to be obscured, maybe it is the cherry ornamentation which is the problem. The story goes like this. The glass tube or vial which contains the red liquid is manufactured – similar to a clinical thermometer – with a magnification bar running up it’s length. Thus from the drivers seat the height of the fluid column is more easily visible; that is if you have a left-hand drive car. (Remember that Moto Meters originated in the United States)

I specify LHD because the magnifying bar is angled towards the left-hand seat by ten or eleven degrees. The vial is secured into the housing at manufacture, and I fear that one would break it if an attempt was made to remove it.

Thus ………….. in order to see at a glance the coolant temperature the radiator cap (or the Moto Meter within it) needs to be set off at an angle of some twenty degrees to the centre line of the car. As I have said previously, this causes the ‘helpful’ to tighten my radiator cap to square it up.

Repeat! Repeat!! Repeat!!! Are there any RHD units on the market?


Mike


PS This is not a problem with Lord Nuffield’s Morris CalorOmeters as they are not so directional.

PPS I should get rid of the cherries!

Phew!

Just one final question..... on the matter of coolant level in the header tank. My Box seems to be happy with the water coming up to the bottom of the half round cut out. If I fill it up more than that it tends to spit it all out when it gets hot. Is this normal? I'm just curious because it's going to be working hard this coming weekend, and to stop it spurting out of the cap (it doesn't seal very well) I'm going to bung some silicone round it. (The overflow pipe is clear & unobstructed)

That is spot on for level. You are right ,if you put in more it just spits it out! Mac

Two points,

Mike you could twist the thing a bit to see what it reads........

Water in header tank, the handbook says about 2" down from top of opening, the half round cut-out is not that deep, I find whatever level I fill my rad up to, it always ends up way below the half round cut-out (seemingly about 3/4" above the core) and then stays there for weeks. Any higher and I have to wash of the spit marks from the boiling matter after a run. The overflow tube is fine and working.

Naomi

That's why I'm resorting to the silicone. If the cap's well sealed all the mucky stuff should go down the overflow!

Hi Reckless,

try using a cork seal, use the early-type valve chest gasket to cut one out, I found silicone breaks down when heated.

On a seperate note, can you assist me with some information about getting a seven registed abroad??

If so, I know you are busy prepping for next weekend so after will do, can you mail me on:

dunford1@aol.com

Cheers

Ruairidh

Car's ready to go, so here's some info.
The process for registering Classic cars in France is slightly different from registering a Modern.

First of all you have to contact the FFVE (Féderation Française de Vehicules d'Epoque) and obtain from them an 'Attestation'; They have a website at www.ffve.fr or you can write to them at FFVE, BP502, 35006 RENNES CEDEX.

Armed with your attestation, which basically is a certificate of authenticity of the vehicle, you then need to take the car to a testing station and have a "Contrôle Technique" (MOT) carried out.

Then you go to the Trésor Public and obtain an 'Attestation Fiscale' to prove your French residence (usually you'll need your Passport and a French utility bill).

Once you've done all that, you go to the Préfecture (County Hall) or Sub Préfecture and fill in an application for for your 'Carte Grise Vehicule de Collection', and if all is well they'll give you your Carte Grise providing you hand over sufficient Euros.

You'll have to hand over your UK V5 or Certificate of Permanent Export as well.

You cannot get number plates in France without producing the Carte Grise, and there are very few places these days where you can get Silver on Black plates made, although they are still available.

Again, once you've got your Carte Grise you can then arrange some Classic Car insurance.

There are no problems regarding having the Contrôle Technique carried out using the UK registration, but you'll need to produce the V5 to the tester.

Procedures can vary from Départment to Départment, so check with your local one before you start the process.

Be prepared to be messed about. France is hugely bureaucratic and most public servants have difficulty with walking & whistling at the same time let along having the ability (or the authority) to make a decision. Be prepared to raise your voice & thump the table if you think they're taking the p*ss.

If you need any more info, you can e-mail me on bjl2634@wanadoo.fr

Just in case anyone is interested, the old girl got top marks on Sunday, despite the weather.... wind, horizontal rain, fog, hard packed ice, flooding and some snow.

Never missed a beat, but leaked like a sieve!

Water level hasn't budged, but we used a fair bit of oil. A total of 161km completed in 3 hours and 10 minutes, averaging just over 50kph (31.25mph)- not bad for 3 up.

She's been sitting out on the drive all day trying to dry out. No damage done, just need to re-seal the roof panel.

Got the trophy for the oldest vehicle, and we weren't last either! Copy & photos sent for the grey mag.

RR

My Grandfather always left his car out of the Motor Home when the car was wet, stating the wind and air circulating around and under it dried it off properly, wheras tucked away in the Motor Home, it tended to rust much quicker because it stood there wet much longer.

Well done with the prizes, Is home a happier place now?

Naomi