Welcome to the Austin Seven Friends web site and forum

As announced earlier, this forum with it's respective web address will go offline within the next days!
Please follow the link to our new forum

http://www.austinsevenfriends.co.uk/forum

and make sure, you readjust your link button to the new address!

Welcome Austin seven Friends
This Forum is Locked
Author
Comment
Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

Found this in the deep archives whilst back loading data for linux !!!
I wrote this for a project / exam and presentation
1989 !!!!

Ok so you read this and tell us the answer !!


Lighting regs


Reg. 24 and 25 road Vehicles lighting Regulations 1989

No person shall use, cause or permit use, on a road, any vehicle in motion between sunset and sunrise or in seriously reduced visibility between sunrise and sunset

Unless every
Front position lamp
Rear position lamp
Rear registration plate lamp
Side marker lamp
End outline lamp
• dipped beam headlamp

With which the vehicle is required to be fitted is kept lit and unobscoured

UNLESS

Parked in area outlined by lamps or signs to prevent it being a danger

Reg 24(5) road vehicles lighting regulations 1989

No person shall allow or cause or permit to remain at rest any vehicle on a road
Between sunset and sun rise Unless every

Front position lamp
Rear position lamp
Rear registration plate lamp
Side marker lamp
End outline lamp

With which the vehicle is required to be fitted is kept lit and unobscured

Except

On a restricted road where the speed limit is 30mph or less - fitted with street lights reg. 25

As near as possible to the near side of the road or either side of a one way street
No part of the vehicle is less than 10m from a junction reg. 24
In a place which is set aside as a parking place

In a lay by which is indicated by prescribed road markings or a different colour or texture from the carriageway

Front position Lamps
Reg 18 and schedule 1 and 2 road vehicles lighting regs 1989
Number of lamps required 2
Colour required white
Unless incorporated in headlamp which is yellow

Markings
Any other vehicle although not requiring an approval mark
Must be visible from a reasonable distance

Reg23
Must be kept clean and in good working order

Front position of lamps

Reg18 and schedules 1 and 2 road vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989

Where 2 lamps are required to be fitted
Must form a matched pair

Distance between outside edge of front position lamp and edge of body must be -
Motor vehicle first used before 1/4/86 and any other vehicle manufactured before 1/10/85 = 510mm

Height of front position lamp above ground must be minimum - no requirement maximum
First used before 1/4/86 and trailer manufactured before 1/10/85 2,300 mm
Any other vehicle 1,500mm unless structure makes it impracticable then 2,100mm

Road vehicles lighting regulations 1989
A lamp shall not be treated as a lamp if

Painted over or marked so as not capable of immediate use or of readily being put to use or
No wiring system to electrical source REG 4(4)

So in a car prior to 1931
Does not require under Reg 18 and shed 1 road vehicles lighting regs 1989

Dim dip or running lamp device
Dipped beam headlamps
Main beam headlamps

NO HEAD LIGHTS !!!

Prior to 1936
No direction indicators
No Stop lamp

Prior to 1/4/86
Hazard warning signal device

Prior to 1/4/80
Read fog lights

Possible offences

After sunset I as a matter of course drive my Austin 7 (First used 1929) on side lights displaying 2 white lights to the front, It is a road designated with a national speed limit, My car is fitted with main beam lights wired to the vehicles power supply with a switch Which I do not have on
I have 2 extra position lights fitted but faulty, so is my stop light.
I am asked to turn these lights on but refuse
I argue that nothing says I have to say I can see where I am going only I must indicate my presence and width on the road, and that in my opinion I was driving at a safe speed for my capability to see.

Section 3
Reasonable considerations for other road users ? Section 2 ??
What about other motorists what do they reasonably expect to see ?
Due care ??

Page 3-16 Hughes guide to traffic law
Reg 23 Only obligatory lamps required on the vehicle must work
It is wrong to say " If it is fitted it must work"

Reg. 20
Optional lights front position no requirement to maintain

Stop lamps first used on or after 1/2/74 need to be maintained not on anything prior to although fitted - no offence


Mer Lord ! I rest my defence
However what do other road users expect to see ?

Over to you all !

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

Although I take on board the points you are trying to raise, I fell that at least in the case of :-

Page 3-16 Hughes guide to traffic law
Reg 23 Only obligatory lamps required on the vehicle must work. It is wrong to say " If it is fitted it must work".

You try it on, but don't ask me to bail you. Does not matter that the 'valiue' is less than £75 (see this weeks press about police and shoplifting etc.).

BTW Jason, was your paper written before or after the "Statutory Instrument 1989 No. 1796 The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989" were published.

These regulations have been quoted by Sandy in this Forum before.

Phillip.

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

Is this an 'Aunt Sally' ?

I am afraid you have lost me on the front position lights; I quote

Height of front position lamp above ground must be minimum - no requirement maximum
First used before 1/4/86 and trailer manufactured before 1/10/85 2,300 mm
Any other vehicle 1,500mm unless structure makes it impracticable then 2,100mm


Am I reading this correctly? Very few cars are 2,300 mm tall let alone have lights at 1,500 mm high,

I am now very confused. Does this relate to cars at all ?

Malcolm

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

I'm sure it's poor old Jason winging on again, he got pretty upset over the rear lights item that I think it was Sandy that raised and refered to by Phil.

I thought Jason had better things to do over the next fortnight with the transfer of this web site to another place, than dig out some old thesis he managed to pass off at Uni. or whatever.

You know what Jason's like when he get's a bee in his bonnet, not even the SatNav can get him back onto a rational course....

Now down the old pub and a nice friendly drink by the fire, uhmmmm heaven.


Naomi.

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

I can't be bothered to go browsing through the legislation any more, but I will say this to you all:

The days of Coppers knowing every single "in and out" of Road Traffic Law are long gone. The days of the professional Traffic Cop are numbered as Forces are nibbling away at Traffic (Roads Policing as it's now called) Departments' establishments in order to serve Home Office Initiatives such as 'Safer Streets' and stuff like that. Add into the equation the fact that the Highways Agency are taking over the patrolling of Motorways & Trunk Roads using civilian staff, the future is not bright for any aspiring bright eyed Traffic Officer. Most of the existing staff are far too busy dealing with the carnage caused by the so called 'Law Abiding' motorist who manages to kill over 3000 people a year to be bothered or for that matter have the time.

The average beat bobby knows sod all about the law in general, let alone technical stuff regarding 'Lights on Vehicles', and even if he (or she) did, the likelyhood of the Crown Prosecution Service ever taking anyone to Court over it is to say the least, remote.

I wouldn't bother wasting any more energy on debating the issue. Best just to go hand have a word with your Testing Station and see what the Tester is prepared to accept. Argue the toss with him if you like, but forget about the Police. Those with any detailed knowledge of Traffic Law are as rare as a pile of rocking horse manure.

Take it from someone who knows.

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

Recky, are you denying us the freedom of speech, the democratic process of discussion and debate, the fruitless persuit of all things that are held so dear to the Englishman's heart, goodness me where will it all end. No idle chatter in the pub, or I suppose Tabac for Recky, no points to be scorred etc.

Oh by the way didn't this first start out some time ago on this Forum with a Lady in Cornwall being stopped for having no stop lights, she pointed out her car was too early to have stop lights or something like that. I'm sure Sandy, Malcolm or Steve down there in Cornwall can confirm that (I suppose even Naomi as she seems to have her nose in all the Mags going - or at least seems to poke her nose in everywhere!).

And Recky, although I would agree the vast majority of my colleagues no naff all about Chapter 8 of the Road Traffic Acts and other associated legislation, we still enjoy nicking drivers, 'cause it's easy money, now shop lifters etc, blow that, to much paper work, no convictions.

Mr Plod, and bend your knee's like so.....

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

Oh, I knew it would come to this.

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

Hello Mr Plod,

No, I'm not denying anyone the right to free speech. I was just exercising my right to do exactly that, and expressing my personal view on the subject matter of the thread.

Your reply just goes to reinforce what I said in my original post about MOST coppers knowing nothing about Road Traffic Law. "Chapter 8" has nothing to do with the Road Traffic Act. It refers in fact to Chapter 8 of the Traffic Signs Manual, a code of practice which relates specifically to safety at road works, and the placing of signs, and is covered by legislation emanting from The Highways Act and the Road Traffic Regulation Act. It is a Traffic Management tool.

"Quod erat demonstrandum"

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

I agree, at last someone else who knows what Chapter 8 is.

Enjoy the sun down there and we all hope your little excursion goes well.

Ashes bedeck me over the free speech bit.......

Mr Plod.

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

Thanks. I will do my best to enjoy myself. Thankfully I no longer have to deal with the likes of what has just occurred on the A52. Been there, done it (many times), still got the 'T' shirt (and the haunting memories).

"Concentration is the Keystone of all good driving. It is a primary factor, but often a neglected one. Complete concentration can enable a driver to see and take notice of every detail. It is often the smallest detail which gives a clue as to what might eventually happen. If it is missed, an unfortunate experience, or an accident may be the result."

(Roadcraft)

Re: Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

I can confirm that Chapter 8 does relate to highways signing/ roadworks etc. Some work colleagues of mine have completed the "training course" so they now have the "certificate" which apparently turns them into brain surgeons...

Have you seen the roadworks signs down in Cornwall? They are more random than the lottery and more abstarct than Picasso, and of course locals tend to think they only apply to someone else anyway!

To much time spent on all this pointless beaurocracy and not enough money or time spent doing the job..

Back to the point or nearly....Lights?
Our tractor has a noddy light(flashing amber) which seems quite sensible at first.... until you follow one at night and try to overtake it. The "strobe" effect and intensity of light displayed by some of these new fangled tractors makes safe overtaking impossible. Brake lights in Cornwall are ignored regardless of age of vehicle, trust me I speak from experience!

Steve (completely of the Austin Seven track, so no doubt I'll get told off!)

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

I hope I'm not sounding pedantic, but if the flashing amber light on a tractor is blinding you, then perhaps you might be following it a bit too close.

If you drop back a bit your vision beyond the obstruction will be improved, which will then give you a better indication of when it might be safe to overtake.

The basic rule for safe overtaking is - "If in doubt, don't". Better to be a few minutes late arriving in this world than getting to the next one before you're due.

It never ceases to amaze me how good the view of the road ahead is through the windscreen of an Austin Seven.... and how much fun it is not to be bothered about what time it will be when we arrive at our destination.

calling Reckless Rat

Did you used to be an IC3 rat ?

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

I never mentioned any chapter 8 ?
and I am reviewing my measurments, I am prepared to accept there might have been a slight miss calculation....
I thought Naomi was a bit harsh ! winging on again ?
Naomi !!!!

Ps have a word Mac

They are picking on me !

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

M2H rat... from the Reckless One, aye. M2XS out.

Re: Lighting regs ! The LAW ! and you argue this !

I wasn't being flippant when I suggested backing off from a tractor at night. Light intensity decreases in proportion to the square of the distance from its source so if you double the distance between you & the object, the light intensity drops by a factor of four.

The same rule applies to the effectiveness of Austin Seven 6 volt headlamps - that's why you can't see where you're going at night!