I keep coming across references to Austin Sevens getting stuck in tramlines and in severe cases having to follow the tramlines to the tram depot to be jacked out. On one visit to Crick tramway mueseum with some Austin Seven friends we attempted to get a Seven stuck in the tramlines with no sucess. The most obvious problem is the tramline gauge is 4' 8.375" as against our Sevens front track of 3'7" and rear track of 3'9". Or did some cities have narrow gauge trams?
Dave

Hello Dave,

I think it's like a lot of myths... very short on veracity and probably conjoured up by some plonker to explain away the fact that they were crap at driving!

I can understand someone on a push bike having problems if they drop their wheel(s) into the grooved rail, but apart from that it's all a load of old tosh. Even if a biker got into difficulty they would probably kiss the tarmac well before they arrived at the Tram Depot!

The good Lord gave everyone a pair of eyes and it's not beyond most person's ability to use them. Given the fact that at some time they have demonstrated the fact that they can see in order to obtain a driving licence and pass a test, they should be looking where they're going!

(and Yes, I do realise that before the war there was no such thing!)

We had 3'6" track tramlines here in Tasmania (last tram 1960) and there is a lot of folklore about the "dangers" of tramline driving. Bit of skidding and maybe 'rutting' in odd places, but stuck all the way to the depot seems a bit far fetched.

As I remeber it, the dangers of tramlines was something adverted to when I learnt to drive, but I have no personal experience to relate.

Barry R

Many years ago I can remember my father telling me that the rear wheel of his BSA 3-wheeler got stuck in the tram lines in London, he told me they had to lift the rear wheel out as they could not steer out of it.

I could well imagine a single wheel droping into the tramlines causing difficulties.

My father has long since passed away so I am not able to give any more details.

I do have a photo of my grandfather's Singer, hanging over a cliff, the battery box being the only thing preventing it from going over. It was the first day of a camping holiday with my parents. All was well after a quick tow but I bet he got stick from my grandmother.

Happy days

.

Then, of corse, there is that magnificant sequence at the end of 'Geniveve'.

Mike

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Spelling again. Sorry. Oh woe!


Mike

As one who lives in a City still with (excellent) trams, I have to laugh at this old chestnut - if I recall it originally was about Ford "T"s, long before Sevens were invented. As Barry suggested, a swerve on polished tramlines might be as serious as it gets. For any car to be the same track and caught, surely the driver would stop? The only trouble I've had with tramlines and a Seven was when a sliver of steel about 6" long, (caused at a bend where the tram wheels bore up against the shoulder of the rails and wearing off the sliver) ruined a good tyre. This topic will probably conjure up the old story also of an Austin Seven caught in the rear bumper of a modern & whilst being towed at high speed the driver tooting his horn to attract attention. OF COURSE THE WITNESSSES SAID HE WAS TOOTING TO PASS THE MODERN ! Well being a sceptic, I alays laughed at it's impossibility, until the book "Blast your Horn" came out with an account of the author's friend doing just that with a big Studebaker, so perhaps it was true at least once. Cheers, Bill.

I have seen cars stuck together via rear towbar and front bumper on the Torpoint Ferry. On one occasion the cars had to be "bounced" on their suspension to free them. Not sure whether they could have been driven of together!

(Cornish forumites will know what I am on about, for the rest of you the Torpoint ferry is a chain ferry carrying vehicles across into England).


Steve.

At one time the Guardian Newspaper (in UK) ran a series on 'Urban Myths', and although I do not recall the tramlines incident, the myth's were interesting and entertaining reading, in fact a number of truth's were dispelled and the world was a sadder place for knowing the truth.

Sandy

I've just returned from Woolaton Park where I was given a possible source for this myth-Ford model Ts had a much wider track and narrower tyres, however there were non there to measure. Dave

Model T Ford track was 56" if my memory is properly in gear
Barry R

The track of a Ford 'T' at 56" is not far off the 4'8 and a bit of the standard rail gauge also used for trams and certainly in the old days the method of constructing tramways "on street" was not as highly developed as today. There was often a depression in the roadway around where the running rails were placed, most of the roads being build in cobbles before the days of hot rolled asphalt, and I can well imagine that a Ford 'T' and perhaps even a 7 could have a tendency to want to follow the alignment of the tramway, similar to you can experience on some motorways & dual carriageways when the nearside lane is heavily worn & grooved by the passage of LGVs. However, the stories about auto tyres getting stuck in the grooved rail itself are false. The groove used on tramway systems is about 1 3/4" wide and the same deep. A problem sure, if you're on a pedal cycle, but the tyres of an Austin Seven, a Ford Model 'T' or even a BSA 3 wheeler are much wider than that.

(see http://www.trz.cz/vyrd/5C35890F493BCF0CC1257077002F5495)

QED

It seems to be assumed that all 4 wheels get stuck in the tram tracks, thus possibly something like 'metre' tram, or dockland train track would bring an A7 to a shuddering halt. It only needs one side of the car's wheels to go into the flangeway to stop you, on the assumption of course that the tyres would fit in, flangeway is normaly around 2.5", so none of the A7 tyres would drop into that.

And as it's all ......., why spoil a good story.

Phil

No Model T's at Woolaton? Except for the large black one by the arena. If I had read this thread before I went I would have taken a tram with me to check it!
Good event again Wooly - well done to the organisers.

My old Dad always said that it was Trojans that got stuck in the tramlines and that the local vicar's car had to get lifted out at the Woolwich depot. I've lived with this tale all my life, Dad's not around anymore, but like others, would love to think this true.
Dave

The Vicars car and Woolwich Depot! Of course it's true.

Those who say it's not, look at all the hurt they would cause you, the long term psychological problems it might create, the lose of faith in your parents and all they stood for.

No, the Vicars car had to travel to the Woolwich depot, it'll be in the Evening Standard.

Patricia.

Oh, I knew it would come to this.

Dr Doom, you seem to be stuck in the same groove...

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Naomi

You've already read my views - the alleged happening would more likely to be read in Hans Christian Anderson than the Evening Standard, but if it WAS a Trojan it would have been surely shunted there by the next arriving tram (itself probably running half an hour behind schedule at the time), because frankly supersnails like Trojans were so slow they couldn't get out of their own way, let alone off a tramline. Keep up the fun. Cheers, Bill

No it's not dockland traintrack, my Seven was a regular visitor to Liverpool docks in 1962/5 and I did not suffer this problem. I might retest this by a visit to Chatham Dockyard next week when I'm down there. Sometimes spilt cargo, particulary grain and over squishy produce, would turn the tops of the rails and cobbles into a skid pan when it was wet.
Dave

I have come across a set of Wills cigarette cards entitled "Safety First" which set out a series of tips for safe driving by motorists. I believe they were issued in 1934.

One of the cards is entitled "Getting out of Tram Lines". It states:-

"It is always inadviseable to motor along a tram track, for tram lines, especially if they are wet, are most 'skid-provoking'. Often, too, the lines are worn to a sharp edge which cuts tyres. If you have the misfortune to get your wheels caught in the tram track ( as in the case illustrated ) [ a 4 door tourer with the nearside wheels in a tram line ], pull out gradually. Grip the wheel firmly, but gently, and change direction of motion as gradually as possible. Avoid use of the brakes, take your foot off of the accelerator and press down the clutch so that the car rolls along, for rolling wheels, that have no power transmitted through them, do not skid."


It would seem that getting wheels into a tram line, or perhaps the tramline taking control of the wheels, was not that uncommon to the extent that 'Safety' instructions were included in the set of cards.

The set of 50 cards make very interesting reading, many of the safety tips are still relevant today!

Malcolm, how could you, just when everyones settled into feeling it's just an old wive's tale.

Naomi

Malcolm,

If I remember correctly, there was such advice in the old Highway Code. Those of us whose hair is grey ( if they have any at all) will have been required to sign a form when obtaining their driving licence to say that they had read and understood this document.

From the standard of driving today I feel that this requirement must have been relaxed!

It sounds as if your cigarette cards may well have been based on the Highway Code. Perhaps you could display them some time. Do they include the splendid information on what to do with your whip?

Mike