Some months ago there was a post from someone who had to top up his radiator after every trip, to which the response was along the lines that this was normal and the water was merely expanding and escaping via the overflow pipe, so stop topping it up. As mine was doing the same thing, I stopped worrying about it. However, now I am now not so sure and would appreciate any advice.

My 1927 Chummy (which has a 4 bladed fan) seems to me to boil after only a couple of miles or so and it has a good old dribble out of the overflow pipe. When I stop, there are gurgling noises inside the top hose and the radiator water level settles down to where I can just touch it with my forefinger through the filler cap. That seems a pretty low level to me. However, as I have never had a car without a water pump before, I'm not sure how they behave. Is this normal, or do I have blockage somewhere and need to give it a good flush out?

I have a 1927 car with 4-seat touring body (the term 'chummy' was never used by the Austin as far as I am aware but thats another issue) with 2-blade fan. If the water settles to a level which can be reached with any normal length fingers after a run that sounds OK to me, but let it cool a bit before testing! If it boils after 2 miles you have something wrong. Assuming the car goes well enough indicating nothing wrong with ignition or valve timing, brakes not binding etc., you probably have a restriction in water circulation. Is the radiator partially blocked? Feel all over the front of the rad to see if it is hot over the full width and gradually getting cooler towards the bottom. If thats OK its likely that the water passages in head and/or cylinder block are choked with debris. Take off both hoses and flush the block. If you feel brave enough you could attempt to remove the aluminium water outlets to get better access but many people will tell you this will open up a whole new can of worms so beware!

Martin

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Martin,

You indicated - "the term 'chummy' was never used by the Austin as far as I am aware but thats another issue" - Should that be Chummy with an upper case 'C'?

Mike

Mike, I have just stripped a 28 engine (not the one in my car!) When I took off the side water casting I found that the block was completely blocked with rust and other debris, there wasn’t a visible space at all for the water, picking it out is almost impossible with the fixed core plugs in an early block so some kind of chemical treatment is needed to insure that all is clear. My own Chummy (with a capital ‘C’) has never boiled even with my old radiator, I now have a nice new one (£££££!) But strangely the water level runs much lower than on the old one, only about 1” above the top of the core.

Yes OK if you're going to be pedantic, using the word 'chummy' as a proper noun would require an upper case C but as I said the Austin, as far as I am aware, never used the word as a model name either with or without capitals. If anyone can prove they did I would be happy to retract. Considering the hopeless spelling on many of the posts on this site I'm very surprised this caused any comment. To return to the point, the most likely cause of the boiling problem is a build up of debris in the water jacket. Removal of the top and bottom water outlets gives better access to clean this out but there are risks. If the outlets have not been off for some time it is likely that the bolts will shear. The bolt holes will then need to be drilled out and cleaned up with a tap. If the threads are damaged or badly rusted they will need to drilled and tapped oversize. Will the bridges with the tapped holes still have enough sound metal to accommodate this? As I said, a whole new can of worms.

Martin

Thanks for the advice. The car is going fine, so the problem must be in the cooling system. The radiator does get progressively cooler as you go down, but I'll check in more detail as you suggest. Then if that is OK I will tackle the block. I recently replaced the top aluminium water outlet ( all was clear in there), so I have encountered some of the snags mentioned. The thread was stripped, so I ordered the stepped stud, only to find that the stripped thread was already the oversized one! So what got fitted was a stud with a nut underneath, but there is precious little metal for it to grab on to. So far all is still well, but I don't think I will touch it unless I have to.

As for the word "Chummy". Can't get excited about that. It may not be what Herbert called them, but it is the popular name for them. What should we call the VW Beetle? It is known as a "Ladybird" here in France. My 2CV is known as "une Deuche", but nobody gets up tight about that. I'm happy with "Chummy"! It has Morris Minor hydraulic brakes on it, perhaps that will make some people squirm as well!

Lastly and unconnected to the subject - there was a museum clearance auction near Bordeaux (La Réole)last week and in it was a 1937 Austin 7 Ruby, with sunroof, described as "older restoration, needing to be re-done". It went for €5000 (Euros). I had thought of going to have a look, but as 3000 people turned up, I'm glad I stayed at home.

Chummey with a capital 'C', NO, they were called chummies by the motoring press etc. because of the need to be good chums when you were sitting so close to, indeed in contact with, your passenger, and especially when trying to find the gear lever.

Chummies is applied to all sorts of 7's from the AB's through to probably the AD's, once they became chrome rads, the term seems to stop although I have seen AAK's onwards (cowled rads, not Ruby tourers) called chummies as well.

Whatever, the chummy was the publics affectionate name for the open road tourer 'A' series of bodies.

Cedric

Don. My own experience very similar to yours albeit on a 1931 Box led me to the bottom hose which was only ever so slightly kinked where it passes under the dynamo but just sufficient to obstruct the flow inside the bore. Removal of the offending hose shows how once the kink appears, the furring up process starts and makes matters worse. The only way to make the hose fit round the base without kinking was one of the flexible jobbies - not period correct I know but it stopped the overheating.

Incidentally, with the hose off there was suufficient room to poke around inside the branch to dislodge debris without removing it

Don
Is your 27 car a coil or magneto engine. If magneto could the 4 bladed fan be blowing rather than sucking, ie the blade pitch is for a coil engine? Check by holding a sheet of newspaper in front of the radiator with the engine running if it sucks the paper onto the rad the fan is the right type, if not that could be your problem, hot air being blown onto the rad.
Regarding the correspondence about the word Chummy (Cap or lowercase c) was the term 'Box' ie Box saloon an Austin term?

I have cleaned out two blocks (early 30's) recently and I could not believe just how much muck / rust came out. The passageways between the bores needed clearing out as well - used a hack saw blade - once that was done, the engines ran OK.

Water level - I cannot reach the water with my finger, but that seems to be the level the car seems happiest with, if I fill her up, she quickly gets rid of the excess and settles down to a level she's happy with, I've learnt to leave well alone. I just check before each run that there is water covering the tops of the tubes etc.

Re. Box and (C)chummy, Cedric seems to have covered chummy and Box is not an Austin term.

From the Register of Surviving A7's I took over (as A7CA Registrar), most pre-Ruby saloons were called 'Box', I tried to give them there correct factory code, which is 'Rx', and 'ARx' for the cowled rad saloons. There are some errors for the period of change over between models in the Register, but until someone tells me the model number stamped on the tunnel behind the handbrake opening, I cannot be sure. There is an (alleged) RP which has a chassis number some 5,000 earlier than the earliest recorded example (Wyatts and Source Book chronology), as the owner has had the car since the late 50's and states it was original then, I'm at a loss - they have yet to tell me the model letters and number on the tunnel, the raised waist band to the windscreen piller is the RP style. The letters and number would tell me when (more or less) the body was made.

Why do people assume a (say) two owner car is all original, there were mods done in the 20's and 30's, used car salesmen have a long and dishonourable history........

Sandy

This heading seems to now be covering several subjects. Re over-heating, it appears David Waller has the best solution if the car has in fact a mag. engine - the 4-bladed fan is in this instance detrimental. Re the kinked hose, insertion of a light-gauge wire spring with OD just smaller than the hose ID is a better way to go apart from looking better than the convoluted ones. (Disgressing further, the flexible pipes on exhausts are not a good thing. With the Repco-Brabham engines on the dyno it was found that replacing the flexible pipes (which exitted the gases out of the building) gained over 10 bhp - so perhaps a convoluted hose on an A7 radiator may be inhibiting the speed of flow of the water?) Re Chummy, as I understand it the word originally covered any car that didn't have a 'dicky' seat (or 'mother-in-law' seat) where all occupants were under the same roof. But it became more appropiate to the tiny Austin 7s and the name stuck. It may not have been an official factory model description, but then neither was Box or Ulster, however I can assure you many old employees at 'the Austin' to whom I've spoken certainly used the term Chummy. It sounds snobbish but the 'title' seemed to have died out after the Vintage period, probably 'cos the car had lost it's cute appeal by getting bigger, squarer & more mass-produced. Re Sandy's comment on alleged "one-owner" cars - for his benefit - if his Register strikes early Oz cars being described as "sitting around the showroom unsold 'til 1932" or "first owner was in '32" (and this occurs very frequently) please disregard, because in most Australian States a proper Owner's Certificate only came into being in that year & previous history is usually difficult to establish. If you're all still awake, thanks for your time ! Cheers, Bill

Don , have a look at "overheating in Portugal" 2nd page post Ausust 8th. this will expand the debate. Mac

Thanks, but a cannae find it!

My car is indeed a mag engine. I had a look at the 4 bladed fan and the pitch is correct for sucking in air through the radiator, so I think I am gunged up somewhere. I noticed the kink in the bottom hose as it goes round the dynamo just after I bought the car (nearly 3 years ago), but just thought it was one of the A7 quirks. I will check it out when I flush out. Something has definitely changed, as I did not have this boiling problem before, even after doing about 20 miles.

I will have a look at the car next week, as I'm off to Scotland tomorrow for a wedding - back to the old country for a few days.

SANDY not all used car salesmen are BAD you should not tar us all with the same brush !
By the way what do you do for a living ?

Mike

He collects car numbers 24/7 Mike

says it all

I say chaps !!!

I think these comments a little close to the bone !

I a former life I came upon many car salesmen and can assure you that Sandy's comments were often factual, however, not all such animals were bad, only those that came to my attention.

The fact that Sandy collects numbers on behalf of the Association should be applauded not ridiculed !

I think Sandy is too much of a gentleman to respond so I have done it for him. Mike, Ian you should be ashamed.

Hello Don,
I would preface my following contribution by saying that I really have only quite limited experience with Magneto Engines, and, no doubt my comments will prove that I actually know nothing!

However....... fools rush in etc....

1. I have never seen a four bladed fan on a magneto engine.

2. I have had a look in my old "Platts" Catalogue.

1.1 No four bladed fan is listed for use with Magneto Engine. They do list two bladed fan (Austin P/N 1A132)

1.2 A two bladed fan is listed 1928-39 for coil engines (Austin P/N 1A253), together with an alternative four bladed fan (Export Models) (Austin P/N 1A531)

3. As you are no doubt aware the fan on the Magneto engine rotates clockwise when viewed from the front of the car (as you wind on the starting handle)

The Coil engine fan rotates in a counter clockwise direction when viewed as above.

Obviously, if you manage to get the wrong one installed, it will tend to "Blow forwards" rather than "Suck backwards." That will obviously be a detriment to cooling efficiency.

4. I am not trying to suggest that there never was a four bladed fan provided either by Austin, or as an aftermarket part for magneto engines. But, it may well be worthwhile to check what part number is cast into the one on your car.

5. I have had a quick thumb through the "Companion," "Purves Source Book," "Austin Service Journal" and several other references but am not really any further advanced.


I will ask the local authorities here in Hobart to rig up their triangle, as I feel sure that my ignorance will earn me a thorough public whipping for the above, and a day or two in the stocks.

Enjoy the wedding

Regards,

Barry R.

Hello Barry,

You may think you do not know a lot, but I can assure you that you know more than I do!

I've just gone back in to the barn and had another look - the fan is definitely the right way round for sucking in air with the clockwise rotation. The fan was fitted a long time ago by a "dyed in the wool" A7 man up there in Brighouse in Yorkshire for the last owner before me. He also lived down here and it was fitted on the basis that as it is hotter down here in SW France, it must help cool he engine. I still have the 2 bladed one that came off - I come accross it every now and again as I rummage in the boxes of A7 bits. One of them contains a "brand new" reconditioned engine, which reminds me that I must give it a squirt of lube soon. I know it is very hot in parts of OZ, does the 2 bladed fan do the job OK down there? Are there many A7's down your neck of the woods?

So, I don't think my problem is the fan, especially as it has been on there for years and it must suck more air through than the 2 bladed one. I'm back to either radiator of block blockages. I can't locate the post that Mac refers to, but I will try again.

Thanks again

Don
Regarding Mac's reference to Running hot in Portugal.
It is June 4 2006. Easiest way to find it it to switch to Board style on forum, type in Portugal in Search box and hey presto up pops the postings.
Hope you get you problem sorted soon. Have you actually tried the newspaper trick infront of the rad with engine running yet? It will work with French newspapers.

Hi Don

To find the post Mac's referring to, do the following:
Click on - "Switch to Board Style", then click on "Next" (with the right pointing arrow head), this will take you to page 2, look down the page for "Overheating in Portugal" - Mike Hentall - AUG 8, 06 - 12·34PM, then click on "Overheating in Portugal"

Jeff

Malcolm, I was in no way ridiculing Sandy, merely pointing out his 110% commitment to the most unenviable task one can imagine, and what a fantastic job he has made with the total of known cars now nearing 10,000. A gentleman? one of the finest! Apologies given and hopefully accepted.

A gentleman, well that's the door I use when required. I was refering to second hand car dealers in the 1930's through to 50's, not modern day ones where Trading Standards and the law are on to the rogues (Todmordan, what about Todmordan!).

I have not replied because I've been busy trying to make a 'silk' car transporter/trailer out of a sow's ear (alright an old caravan chassis) that I bought despite many warnings from fellow Club members in Cornwall. Might not be silk, but it's a decent cotton, so far.

Almost ready for the road now, just a lick of paint here and there, and all for £50 + another £50 on spares, shock absorbers, mudgaurds etc. Lucky my time is free.

And for those who said the chassis alone coming home would be 'floppy', it stuck to the road like glue, none of your English/Chinese steel, straight from Sweden and thick as hell, it weighed a lot and more.

Sandy

I've only ever seen one 4-bladed fan for a magneto engine and that was made by a friend of mine out of two 2-bladed mag-engined fans. I would be most interested in more details about Don's fan - casting numbers, photos?

David

Hello Don,

The Austin Seven Chummy I am currently running came from Queensland.

I has a coil engine and is fitted with a four bladed fan.

It also has a new Serck radiator core.

Even here in Tasmania, things can get hot (30 degree C +) in Summer. The terrain is also quite hilly.

If anything, my car runs on the cooler side of what I would consider to be normal.

Not many A7's in Tasmania. Big represenation in Victoria, South Australia, New South Wales and Queensland though.

Regards,

Barry R.

Thanks, I found it and have swallowed all the info. I will get stuck in to the problem next week.

David,

I'll have a closer look at it next week when I get back (and recover from)from the Scottish wedding. From memory, it looks like a pukkah job and not home made.

Dear all,

I have a four bladed fan on my 1928 Mag-engined Chummy.

It sucks the correct way.

Cheers

Ruairidh

Hello Ruairidh,

I wonder if you would be kind enough to let us know any parts numbers or other identification marks on your fan. No rush, but I would be interested to know whether Austin were providing four blade fans for magneto engines.

I always thought that four blade fans did not present themselves until the advent of the "Ruby and family" models, but then I really have nothing to base that on.

I used to have a Remax Parts Book but can't find it at the moment and wonder if they may have made "after market" parts.

Regards,

Barry R

John Barlow made mine for me. I think your assumption concerning Austin made ones is correct.

Cheers

Ruairidh

I just thought I'd re-awaken this thread now that summer is here. (well for the Rekkers area anyway!)

I took the RP out for a run on Sunday afternoon, in full Mediterranean sun and air temperature round about 35°C. The car is in standard trim, with low comp head and two bladed fan. Despite the heat, and two passengers of 'ample' proportions (not including myself) the old girl made light of a climb up & over a 'col' which peaked at 560 metres, most of which was done in 3rd gear at a steady 25mph.

I did have to resort to switching on the 'air con' and opening the side vents, both windows and the screen as it got uncomfortably hot around my feet, (standard saloon, no sun roof!)but apart from that and a slight bit of hesitation creeping in as we neared the summit (I presume a bit of vapour lock was happening due to the under bonnet temperatures) all was well and no boiling occurred. Heat levels returned to normal after the summit & during the descent.

I can only surmise therefore that except in extreme situations, the two blade fan is more than up to the job. Boiling over experiences for other members is probably due in the main to build-ups of crud in the block & head or incorrect timing.

I did consider the clothes peg modification, but seeing as it would only push more hot air into the car I decided not to bother!

Re. getting at the crud in the water jackets, what about one of the proprietory "flushes" that can be bought to de-scale modern car engines. They require no dismantling at all?

I would hazard a guess that a 'modern' engine has had less opportunity over the years to build up rust & crud in the water galleries, particularly those with alloy blocks. 70 plus years worth of using tap water can cause all sorts of problems.

I was amazed how much could be poked out of a dry block with a bit of welding rod once the side water branch has been removed. It's easier with the head off.

Since clearing it all out I now use a coolant/inhibitor/anti-freeze mix all year round. The water is no longer rust coloured and cooling efficiency is fine.