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Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Having got to grips with the photos, I'd like to put the new skill to good use.

Sandy put me onto a chap in Finland with the remains of what was a 1924 car. I've got more information which will go into the next association magazine but here are some of the pictures. I think it's the remains of a 24 Sports shown below, another body grafted onto the remains...







There are two things which make me think this.

1. The top of the dashboard, check out page 71 of the "Source Book"






2. The line of the top of the door







Compare this image with the publicity one at the top and also pictures on page 70 of the "Source Book".

I'd be interested to hear what others think, the body number has a P with it which normally means it is a two seater.

Cheers

Ruairidh

Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Hi Ruairidh,

If it was a two seater originally would the floor pan have been wide enough to warrant the set in wheel arches on the rear of the body?
I agree the doors and scuttle look very convincing.

Regards

Rob

Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Hi Rob,

Good to hear from you, check out the pictures in The Source Book and see what you think...

Cheers

R

Re: Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

No can do, not got a copy here. Will have a look at the weekend.

Regards

Rob

Re: Re: Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Hi Ruairidh. Yes, I would say it's a '24/'25 factory sports. At the risk of opening a hornets' nest, I'd suggest you compare it with other cars as well as the one on page 71. (If needed, I can also get details from a '25 New Zealand car, and from my '24). But your photo clearly shows the kosher aluminium strip that went on the dash top (and originally continued along the doors and around the cockpit) and you'll notice, apart from the angled top of the doors, that the hinges are at a different location & spacing to the contemporary Pramhood Chummys. The "slide" panel on top of the tunnel (for the seats) is noticably different, the reason : the bucket seat base (quite different to a Chummy's) angled down to the floor (note the rear cross-strut is lower than the front), so couldn't use the usual retaining lip. Also the vertical side floor-panels that usually run from the firewall, form the doorframe etc, finish at the wheelarch with a lip helping to form that arch on a tourer - in this case continue on into the tail on a Sports. It's a pity part of the rear floor is missing as the tunnel angles up and has the spare wheel carrier rivetted to it (so that the angled spare wheel precludes access to the tail!) I'd be interested in what month/year the Finnish car is, as it seems to have plenty of holes in the door tops - some of course would be for the screws to hold the alum. strip, but it may have had sidecurtain holes as well. A road test in Junuary 1925 said sidecurtains were fitted - but the early cars apparently weren't. (Mine has no holes - maybe the screens originally came as an extra?). Provided the owner writes in English (!) you are welcome to pass on my address if he needs info and help on the bodywork, including the tail. Cheers, Bill

Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Bill - The owner of the car in Finland is corresponding in English and needs a good guiding hand over the car he has - I cannot provide that, but being aware Ruairidh had a car within a few Chassis numbers, plus Ruairidh's enthusiasm (is that how you spell it) I passed on the information and multiple photo's - I'm sure any information will be more than welcomed by the owner, the owner's father bought the car in the 60's I believe.

Sandy

Re: Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

A couple of afterthoughts. Re the sidecurtains, the Light Car & Cyclecar of September '24 says "Although not a part of the standard equipment, side curtains may be very easily fitted if desired" and, as said, in Jany. '25 they tested a car with them (whether standard or not is the question also). But I was merely trying to pinpoint for David Cochrane, Phil Baildon and my own academic store when the change occured. Secondly,if the Finnish car is the later '25 version of the Sports with the Chummy-type wings, he needs to know that I'm assured by my Kiwi friend that they are far from standard Chummy wings !! If Sandy or Ruairidh can get the owner to contact me I may be able to arrange to post measurements, paper patterns, whatever, to help the project along. Cheers, Bill from OZ

Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Bill,

the owner is aware of this forum thread, Goran do you want to add comment here?

He's sent me some photos of the window frames he has and I will post later.

Cheers

R

Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Yes I can add comments here but I´m not sure if I can add pictures here

Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

This is the picture of Goran's sidescreen frame, it doesn't look to be from the 24 car to me, what do you all think?

Cheers

R




Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

I had quite a lot of correspondence with Goran a month ago, and I can confirm that his car is definitely a 1924 Sports model. Chassis no. 3874, it is the second oldest surviving Sports model that we know of (so far). Bill, I hadn't quite realised that your car (Ch.No. 3934?) is a Standard Sports - do you have any photos you can send me? It's the third oldest survivor. We only know of 6 original Sports models: three 1924 (one in Japan, one in Finland & one in Australia), two 1925 (one in UK, one in NZ) and one 1926 (in NZ).

David

Re: Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Hi David. Refer my email to you 20/6/02 where I (at length) gave history of 3934 being updated for first Australian Grand Prix in '28 (came 3rd in class to Waite, 10th outright) and you suggested it would be best to restore to those specs rather than to '24 brakes, wheels, wings, hood etc because of it's history. Still in bits (some panels & bits restored) in storage, please don't hold your breath for current photos, although I can send shots taken in '25 and in '28 at AGP. Have just rec'd email from Goran so will communicate direct to help him get his restored. Cheers, Bill

Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Thanks Bill, I hadn't put it in my list of Standard Sports - I hadn't twigged that's what it was. Also I have now included all your history of it in the Pram Hood Register. It would be nice to see the 1920s photos sometime.

With regards to Standard Sports wings, I think that you could get two types - either the (slightly OTT) flared ones or standard Chummy ones.

David

Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Goren has sent me photo of the speedo from the car...







...it is in kph!

Ruairidh

Re: Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

David - re '24 Sports wings, academic time again : there may have been three types - (a)the flared ones as shown in Ruaridh's clever photo this site (although this may be a publicity shot of the first one made and taken to Scotland for the Motor Show there, but may be the only one with such wings) - (b)the flared type that had a deep vertical lip (to contain the mud etc better) which was almost certainly an addition to type one and then - (c)the Chummy-type wings on the later '25 & '26 cars. I say Chummy-type because they are far from standard Chummy wings & running-boards, my New Zealand friend is quick to point out. Will snail-mail photos. Cheers, Bill

Re: Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Have a couple of original photos of two Standard Sports on the start line at Brooklands June 1925 one has wings removed the other has flared wings ,sorry dont have the technology to put them on here.

Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

It would be nice to see the pictures, here in Finland we aren´t used to see so much from Western Europe because of the influence from the east and Russia and it was seldom any quality that we got from them.

Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Could anybody tell if the windscreen is correct? It is shared in two pieces,but it looks a little bit strange compared with other a7:s I have seen.

Re: Finnish A7 - 24 Sports??

Goran,

I think the uprights for the screen come from the original car, they have been bent about a bit but they look about right.

The other parts look to right also but gaing have been bent about.

R