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1929 ML COIL IGNITION DIAGRAM

For Personal Attention, Ian Moorcraft, collector of electrical antiquities.

Somewhere, I have some notes about the Lucas acquisition of "ML" - if you would like me to find them I will search them out. Nothing much really, but might be nice to keep with your coil.

The following thumbnail is a copy of the Wiring Diagram in A7 Handbook 619c.

I can't wait to show my son, who probably quite correctly rates my computer skills with great scorn, how artfully I have managed all this, and just how clever I really am!






Regards,
Barry R

Re: 1929 ML COIL IGNITION DIAGRAM

Hi Barry/Ian

Not sure if I am barking up the wrong tree or not?

The resistor in the primary CCT can be fitted for two reasons as far as I can find out.

One reason as you are probably aware is found on moderns were a low voltage coil is used and a "ballast resistor" used to provide correct volatge during running. This resistance is temporarily shorted out during starting to improve starting performance by giving the coil a full 12V. I do not think this is what you have. However.........

Another reason ballast resistors have been used/fitted is to provide a more constant output from a coil. In a standard system the output from the coil normally decreases as revs rise because less current flows in the primary. With the ballast sytem the resistor heats up at low speeds due to the higher current flow and therefore its resistance increases and it limits current flow. At higher speeds less current flows so it will be cooler, thus allowing more current to flow and keeping the output more constant. Could the coil and resistor you have be designed to work as a pair like this?

Not really sure if this is relavant to your quest, but it may be interesting?

Regards

Steve

Re: Re: 1929 ML COIL IGNITION DIAGRAM

Hello Steve,

Well in Austin Seven application, the resistance definitely was not used as a starting aid like a modern ballast.

You could have something though in respect to the second point you have made. 6v coils are/were notorious for " falling off" in output as revs rise due to the need for relatively high primary current to produce decent output from secondary. I must keep my eyes open as I read some of the older material I have here.

It may also be of course, that the ML stuff was actually designed for some other non Austin Seven application. The story I have read somewhere is that Lucas supplied the ML units because they were unable to maintain the demand for Lucas/CAV items.

Thanks for your suggestion.


regards

Barry R.

Re: Re: Re: 1929 ML COIL IGNITION DIAGRAM

Barry - Today's bit of useless trivia : In 1923 Lucas came to an arrangement with Rotax, in 1925 acquired C.A.V. (C.A.Vandervell), in 1930 bought Smith's starting, lighting & ignition (except spark plugs)and transferred it to the Rotax works, but the purchase included all of ML Magneto Syndicate (ML = Morris & Lister) share capital, but decided to concentrate ML on agricultural & stationary engines, (by that time most cars including Austin Sevens had gone to coil), same year Bosch, after originally saying they'd advise Lucas if contemplating setting up in England, secretly bought land, Lucas confronted them & the final agreement was for Bosch to buy a 49% interest in C.A.V. to avoid a dogfight & Bosch would use the land for something else. Oh what a tangled web we weave? Cheers, Bill

Re: Re: Re: Re: 1929 ML COIL IGNITION DIAGRAM

Hello Bill,

I must confess that I can't keep all that sort of detail in my head!

I have the two volume tome "Lucas -The First 100 Years" by Harold Nockolds here, but it is very heavy reading.

What I always found a good tale is the fact that at the outset of World War 1, His Brittanic Majesty's government, and their allies, suddenly found themselves in the difficult situation where virtually all the world's significant expertise in the design and construction of Magnetos was in the hands of the Kaiser.

Obviously, that was of some concern as virtually the entire motor fleet, not to mention the fledgling Aircraft Industry were reliant upon magnetos for their operation.

There were apparently some quick "round tables" and as a result the British magneto industry got a huge shot in the arm and Lucas eventually came out at the end of the Vinatge period by virtually owning the whole box and dice by the mergers you have described.

After World War 2, Lucas had the opportunity to squeeze Bosch out of the equation, but, for reasons which I do not understand, went for an accomodation with them and the rest is history.

Regards

Barry R

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1929 ML COIL IGNITION DIAGRAM

Ihave a Lucas leaflet forAustin 7HP Model 1931 it lists the ML type coil as Z6with a series of spare part nos ,also two distributors MA4 andDJ4/BN7/0.Oddly also lists the wiper blade as a Lucas item,AZ57.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1929 ML COIL IGNITION DIAGRAM

Barry, would be very interested in the notes when you have a chance to look them out. The pictures I sent to the Grey mag were on my other computer (now in the skip). Do you still have the ones I sent you? Another chance to show your new found skills on uploading pics to this forum maybe?

Re: 1929 ML COIL IGNITION DIAGRAM

Will this assist you both?

Cheers

Ruairidh













Re: Re: 1929 ML COIL IGNITION DIAGRAM

What a wizard you are Ruairidh!
Will look up the Lucas stuff for you Ian, and MA4, that is the ML distributor, but I haven't any illustration of it as far as I know.

I am "baby-sitting" my 9 month old grandaughter at this very moment and don't have my computer here - am on my son's lap top, so can't look at any files.

Regards,

Barry R.

Re: Re: Re: 1929 ML COIL IGNITION DIAGRAM

Thanks Ruairidh, The pics don’t show that this is quite a lumpy piece of equipment, it is 3 ¾” tall by 3 7/8” wide by 3 1/8” deep. If you have an extra hole near your coil fixing your car would in all probability have been fitted with one of these. The hole centres are 3 ¼”. My Fabric saloon, Car No .A8-9036 chas.86470 Reg. 23 July 1929 has these two holes and a rusty ‘witness’ mark that matches this coil exactly