Hardwood fabricators here in the Dallas area are doing glue-ups with Gorilla Glue with great success. It is a polyurethane glue that is very strong, flexible and waterproof. There are several brands of this type of polyurethane glue, and I'm not sure what the best UK brand is.

I have also used "Titebond III" in marine applications gluing up everything from white oak to mahogany. Have not used ash, but believe that either Gorilla Glue or Titebond III would hold just fine.

David

Looks like both products are available in the UK:

http://www.acordis-chemicals.com/cgi-bin/psProdSrch.cgi/@cGlue%20-%20Polyurethane@b::0::user::1,0,0,1::

Steve, I would think people who glue wooden aircraft together might help. I speak from memory, but perhaps Croda (as in Croid) could help.

CRODA ADHESIVES, WINTHORPE ROAD, NEWARK, NOTTS., NG24 2AL. TEL : 01636-646711

Regards, Stuart

.

Stuart, it could be that you are showing your age!

Whatever happened to Croid?

and can you still get Adcoids?

or even Spangles?



Mike

You could be right, Mike. Some time since I last drove past the Croda factory, probably a fast food outlet now.

Some interesting stuff on general considerations here, though;
http://www.auf.asn.au/scratchbuilder/joints.html

Regards, Stuart

I have used a product called Cascamite with success in the past but I think the best thing would be to find a local boat chandlers. They often stock West adhesives which are also good and there are probably some new ones by now. The advantage of the chandlers is that most of the adhesives will be waterproof.

Steve,

Aerolite 303 SM, an urea-formalehyde, two pack adhesive is recommended for bonding hard, dense timbers such as Ash and Beech and is fully resistant to moisture and long term weathering.

Jeff

Thanks chaps

I have been doing some more research, and Cascamite would seem to be suitable, as well as the Aerolite. I can find specs and data for both. Ref the West system stuff, this is what I am using at the moment, which I got at the chandlers, it is West system epoxy 105 resin.

I know of a cabinet makers supplies shop locally whihc has agood reputation, being quite old fashioned. Its probably worth me chatting to them, but at the moment Cascamite or Extramite (which seems to be the same) made by Humbrol seems to be worth a try. It is quite cheap and appears much more user friendly than epoxy, which is a pain to mix in small quantities and not good in cold weather as well as being very messy!

I will let you know how I get on

Steve

Aerolite 303 is the only thing to use. It's used for wooden aircraft frames and I used it 15 years ago to glue an ash framed Seven body together and years of trialling never broke a joint. The body now belongs to someone else and he continues to trial it without problems.

At the time I was building the body, a friend that builds wooden air frames recommended 303 to me and said that he wouldn't recommend Cascamite as it is forms a rigid joint that will not withstand flexing over a long period. 303 is designed to give a little flexability in the joint - exactly what is needed in air frames and car bodies also. Do follow the instructions to the letter though.

STEVE

Hi Steve

Hope family had a good Xmas.

Aerolite 303 is the best thing to use, not only does it do a good job, it is economical in that if you keep the paste ( after mixing ) in an airtight contained it will keep for weeks and weeks. It only goes hard in contact with the hardner.

I understand it kept the Mosquito aircraft together during the war.

Malcolm

Thanks again chaps...

Here goes with some more info....

I must clarify a point regarding what I am glueing. I am NOT glueing any of the half lap joints for the body framing. I intend to screw them together with extra steel bracket/strap reinforcement were required. I believe this is desirable as I can dissasemble easily if repairs are needed and of course the joints will have some "give".

I am glueing together a small section of the "c" cab side which I have bent in my steamer as 3 laminates. Once the section is glued together and finally shaped/sanded it will be screwed into position NOT glued.

In view of the small amount of glue required I popped into the chandlers yesterday to have a chat. The staff were suprised by the Ash and Epoxy's failure but apparently Teak has been known to cause problems as it is oily. To cut a long story short the guys there were very enthusiastic about Balcotan, which is a one pack Polyurethane adhesive. It was not too expensive and very easy to use with no wastage, apparently they use it for lots of structural items in wooden boat building with great results.

I bought some and conducted a test peice last night. Two small 2" by 2" blocks of Ash were glued as per the instructions, with no wastage or mess or complicated mixing etc etc. This morning I tested to destruction! I was unable to break the joint by leverage or hitting with a hammer, which seemed like a succsess to me! Eventually I got a very thin sharp knife resting on the glue line and belted it with a large hammer. The adhesive split down the centre of the glue itself and both halves showed no signs of the adhesive peeling or coming away from the Ash itself, so the adhesive itself failed as opposed to the bond. I reckon that it should do the trick for what I am glueing and have tried it today on the real thing so will see tommorow what the result is?

See this link for glue info http://www.holdich.demon.co.uk/chemical/balcotan.html

Steve

Malcolm - I'm not here to knock Aerolite 303, but I know of one instance where it didn't keep a Mosquito together ! During WW2 an Uncle of mine had only just take off (at the Williamtown air base outside of Newcastle in N.S.W.) when the complete tail fell off. He said he ploughed through about 2 miles of sand dunes before coming to a stop, surrounded by matchwood. As he only sustained a cut on the nose I suppose one would have to say the Aerolite did it's job for a fair while though? Cheers, Bill in Oz

Hello Steve, and a Happy New year! Ive recently used "no nails" type adhesives, best seemed to be "ultimate" from Wickes but not a single failure yet in my aero engined thingy Dave

.

A Splendid and Safe New Year to One and All.


And now,

My Lords, Ladies and Gentlemen,

Boys and Girls,

I give you – for your delectation,

The one – the only,

the celebrated – the miraculous,

indeed, the overly stupendous,


(......roll of drums)


The Aero Engined - - - - - - “Thingy"

Thanks Dave, happy new year to you and everyone else!

Have you used thin laminates of ply to form the body? It looks very light and I am intruiged?

As for no nails, I have used this with much success on my mothers house were the walls are 100 year old lath and plaster which is impossible to fix anything too with traditional fittings. I didnt think about this for the car to be honest, but I can see were there might be a lot of uses for it.

Back to the Balcotan....... I have now glued and shaped/sanded the c sections and can report that it seems to have worked very well. A word of warning..... The product "foams" to fill in any gaps or odd shapes so to achieve a strong joint you need to get a good fit and use some clamping pressure to keep the glue lines as thin as possible to ensure max strength.

Steve

Hi Dave - Congrats on a magnificent-looking special. I assume that to drive it you had to have HRT? (not hormone replacement therapy, but huge round *********?) Your thoughts on A7 brakes would now be interesting. Cheers, Bill in Oz