What a glorious weekend lovely weather cold in the morning and warming up as the day progressed on Saturday and Sunday.
Saturday out for a ramble in the Chummy and Sunday a spirited drive in the TT.
To the point of the thread;the Chummy started easily on the Saturday morning on a 6V setup.On the Sunday the TT churned for sometime on a 12V battery with jump leads ,to come to life.A supercharged car does need to turn over for some time to fire up and even on 12V its not that fast with Casrol R40 on the sump which is very viscous at low temperatures.
What I'm wondering is how did a S/C EA Sports fare in winter when it was new as there is no way the 6V battery would start my car from cold.When the engine is warmed up its OK.

For what it's worth my blown car starts first time with a sump of R40 and 12volts. However, I always turn the engine over with the ignition off until I see some oil pressure coming up on the gauge - just as a precaution.

Charles

Charles,
I'll try turning over with ignition off next weekend to see how that works.I always flood the carb before trying to start do you?

Not specifically.
My method probably floods it reasonably well anyway.

Charles

Both my cars have had 12v starting almost as long as I've known them, all dating from our first attempts to start a rebuilt blown engine in the mid 60's; hopeless on 6v, instant on 12v. Mind you, we had very little idea of what we were doing then!
I have sometimes wondered if magneto performance is not what it was in 1930; magneto rebuilding does seem to be a skill not given to all.
It has been suggested to me that moving magnet magnetos (both mine are BLICs and I know David's is a moving magnet ML) need to spin faster than moving coil instruments to give a sufficient spark. I have insufficient electrical knowledge to dare to comment!
However, I believe Barry Lovelock's car has a coil conversion and he too had starting problems until he went 12v - at my suggestion, IIRC. Perhaps it's just the extra drag of all that mechanical gubbins...
The grey car takes a goodish spin to fire if it hasn't been run for a week or two, this with an electric fuel pump, so I suppose the carb is automatically flooded. Thereafter, it will start almost instantaneously on 12v, even if it has stood overnight. Don't understand this, really.
I've not had the blue car working for long enough to pass comment(!), but its engine should be back in the car in the next week or so. Shall be gratified if it works on any voltage!

Regards, Stuart

Hi all,

Would this help cranking??

http://europe.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/europe/en/config/product_info/automotive/starter/spec_sheets.RowPar.0001.ContentPar.0001.ColumnPar.0009.File.tmp/Kopie%20von%20Kopie%20von%20COPY%206V_082304.pdf

Excuse the long link

Thats over 800 cranking amps!! Its would not fit a standard battery box but thats only because its the wrong proportions.

I have used similar technology batteries in a motorcycle engined single seater (12v), they are worth every penny!! Conventional lead acid batteries are very poor by comparison.

I know the VSCC will only accept 'full size' batteries, would this be acceptable?

Regards

Rob

Thanks Rob.

With my car it's not the cranking but the charging that's a problem

Charles

The replies just confirm my experiences with the TT and the Rolt that had a coil conversion.
Maybe it was significant that the S/C EA Sports was not road tested and actively sold .It has been estimated that of the 200 or so EA Sports 50 were blown and a lot of these seem to have been used for motor sport.Bert Hadley wrote an article for the 750 Bulletin about a new S/C car he bought from Austins which remained unsold 1932/33.Maybe starting was just another problem along with worn/unreliable Cozettes on dusty roads which made them impractical road cars.
I had a U/B car in the 70's which also ran on R40 this would start on 6V on the coldest day but only if it was cranked vigorously beforehand.

Stuart,
As you know my car now has fitted the FN4 Scintilla magneto a la side valve single seaters, that was originally fitted by Charles Goodacre.This has not improved starting but the engine does seem to run smoother particularly at higher revs.
Both the Rolt and the TT have a drain tap on the bottom inlet manifold from the blower(incidenty Gordon's TT in Canada has this same provision.)The car seems to start slightly better if I open the tap and drain the residual oil ,however I have been reluctant to do this as this oil will lubricate the blower on start up.Thoughts?

Just spotted this on ebay. Seems to be sitting on a TT replica, anyone here know it?

Owners name is Ben he owns a works blown engine which we believe was used in the Crabtree entry for Looker Bros in the 1931 TT. The engine is an interim 10 stud of the type hastily prepared by Austins for the 1930 500 Mile Race after the failure of the 8 stud engines.The engine is unusual in that it has 9B nos on the case and block.The block shows signs that the extra stud flanges and the webbing were modifications to a 8 stud casting mold.The crankcase has a shallow sump and the external oil pressure adjuster is not in the same place as the "normal 10 stud".
The Crabtree entry was a modified wide bodied production car made early inm 1930 so Ben is making a replica with a dummy large tank.

David

My repro manifolds from Dave Dye have the boss for the drain tap but I never bothered to machine them and therefore have no drain. I don't think that it has ever been a problem and like you I like the idea of a a light lubrication of the top end. It can oil a plug but only when it's hot and I'm left idling for quite some time (start line queues for example).
BTW I'm running an ML RF4 magneto.

Charles

Of course, David, knew perfectly well you had fitted the Scintilla, brain fade!

I think your suggestion that the original owners of blown Ulsters were happy to tolerate their idiosyncrasies may well be right. Plug oiling in traffic was a routine experience, though of course there was less traffic anyway. Still a bit baffled by the starting problems.
I had wondered if my car's reluctance to start instantly after a few day's rest related to its long inlet tract (blower in front of engine) but one begins to think not.
Maybe the original owners all lived at the top of a hill!

Regards, Stuart

Stuart,
Reading a book last night on Lagondas.The 2 litre S/C model was fitted originally with a special ML mag which would give a better spark for starting in impulse mode but could be switched to normal mode for running.Could be they didn't have a big enough spark
a low starting revs.

Add to last note ; Lagonda used Zoller,Cozette or Powerplus superchargers

I suppose the comparison should be made to the Hyper Lea Francis. They run Cozette's in original and tufnol bladed replica form. I'll ask my chum who ownes one.

Charles

Would any of the above experts be able to offer an idiot's guide to the options for blowing an A7 engine? I couldn't help marvelling at the price of that Roots blower on ebay which sold for over 1K. I have heard about replica Cozettes but gather these require considerable expert attention to put together.

Refer to Charles Ping's excellent article in the VSCC Bulletin a year or so ago.

The pages are here:

http://flickr.com/photos/47438069@N00/1249885407/sizes/l/

http://flickr.com/photos/47438069@N00/1249885505/sizes/l/

http://flickr.com/photos/47438069@N00/1249885545/sizes/l/

If you want a blown Ulster then Cozette is the way to go. Not sure if anyone is making them at the moment but I know someone who is thinking of making some.

Charles
(who wishes he knew how to make clickable links of this forum!)

Has anyone tried the electrical superchargers now on the market? Cheers, Bill in Oz

Or indeed one of the superchargers from the modern Japanese "Kei" cars?

Seaking to Martin Eyre the other night he wondered if there would be any difference between the starting characteristics of the Replica Cozette and the Original Cozette.The replica relies on centipetal force to throw out the tufnol blades whereas the original steel blades are sprung.The replicas would need to be revolving quite fast before they act as compressors.

Re. the query as to availability of the Cozette superchargers.

I believe they are available through the Cercle Pegase Amilcar - the French Amilcar club - but don't know whether these are rebuilt units or replica ones. They would be suitable for 1100cc cars in the intended Amilcar application.

Thought the C6 Amilcar used a Roots type S/C withtwo lobes not a Cozette.The Type GP Salmson used a Cozette No 6? and the GP8C used two S/Cs both Cozette poss the No 4 but only one car known to exist.

Austin - our racing bods here have been using new Rootes-type blowers for some time with no problems, will have to check from which Japanese source. Cheers, Bill in Oz

Hi.

The Cozette was/is used on the four-cylinder Amilcars. (Mine's an unblown CGSs). It's quite a complicated installation and none too reliable but it delivers the goods. The Amilcar service in France is a supplier according to their most recent catalogue. No price is quoted. Hope this helps.

Nothing to do with Superchargers but an observation about this post.How come there are so many views, currently over 700, yet only 25 posts ? Is somebody having a laugh and bolstering up the figures by repeatedly logging onto this. Pretty meaningless to create record breaking figures by stupidly doing this to the point that it's obvious. Can't think there is that much interest in superchargers with every respect to those who have posted ? George J

David Cochrane has Cozette No 4 superchargers on his 'A7 Components Recent & Planned Parts List' - expected sometime in 2008 - part ref. COZ4.

Jeff

Seems like a good question, George; and yet the (in my view) even more arcane subject of Ulster tin sumps got over 300 views on the basis of ten posts. Maybe there is more interest in supercharging than you think? Hard for me to judge, since it's interested me for 40 years plus, but I used to think I was almost alone!

Regards, Stuart

I've no experience of superchargers but the compressed air starter motors for diesel engines that are basically the same as the Cozette supercharger and relied on centripetal force to throw out the tufnol blades are NBG. We ended up replacing them with a single stage turbine starter, they work first time evertime and no wearing parts.

George, Like Stuart I have had a fascination with supercharged Austin Sevens for over 40 years .Ever since superchargers were conceived I think its been that way ,just consider the S/C Bentley,so I dont think Stuart and I are alone.

Austin,

Regarding superchargers from modern cars, one of my colleages at university turned up recently with an eaton m24 blower from a Brazilian spec ford fiesta. Apparently the brazilians use ethanol fuel made from sugar cane so ford offer a blown version to get the same power as the petrol powered version.

The unit was very neat and 'generic' no complicated manifold shapes or extra little pipes.

Regards

Rob

Supercharger mysteries!
Why is the number 5 supercharger not listed in the Cozette catalogue? How does it differ from the number 4?
How strange too that Austin's site has as yet no photographs of the Amherst Villiers/Jamieson Ulster. Did it actually race at Brooklands or was it only being tested?

Graham,
I had often wondered this myself so asked Martin Eyre a couple of years ago,he showed me a letter from Tom Delany who's father started Gallay who marketed the Cozette in this country and Tom said he checked their records and very few No5's where made but that Austins had at least two.They are longer that the No 4 so the mounting studs on my crankcase are wider spaced.
Ive never seen a photo of the Jamieson modified Ulster but it was sold to Amhurst Villiers in early 1930 and I have the chassis no and no of the original 8 stud S/C engine.By 1931/32 I would have thought it would have had a 10 stud.
Another oddity I've seen it stated a number of times that the engine from the White Ulster was used in the first Jamieson Austin racer but that cannot include the crankcase as it would need to be an offset type a la Duck.

A cozette catalogue - that sounds like the kind of document that I'd like to read.
Any chance of a scanned copy?

Thanks

Charles

You're certainly not alone David.

Charles

Further to the reply on Cozettes used on 4 cylinder Amilcars: apparently it is the No.7 that is available via Amilcar Services.

(In the 1920's a report of a bench test with the Cozette fitted on a 7cv 4-cylinder side-valve Amilcar motor showed power increased from 33bhp to 58bhp. The blower absorbed 6bhp.

Have just checked my copy of the revised Gilles Fournier Amilcar book and that says the Cozette was not a factory option but offered by Cozette for the CCGS.The increase in power quoted by B Rossiter sums up the attraction of a supercharger .

As one of those looking at this thread, I should come clean and say that I want to build a Supercharged Trials Seven. There seems a lack of faith in blown engines for trials, but why not? A blower offers more power right through the rev range with not much more weight so I'll start saving up. I can't afford a Grasshopper so I'll have to build a special.

If I were interested in trials thats what I would do ,more power more torque just what you want which is why Austins supercharged the Grasshopper.My only concern would be keeping the inlet cear of dirt Austins solved this with a high level blower and down draught SU.A Cozette in the conventional place is asking for trouble.I think Barry Clarke is thinking of fitting a replica Grasshopper engine into one of his trails cars.

Supercharging transforms the Austin 7 and probably every other I.C.E.
However for any period, especially the V.S.C.C. eligible pre-war Austin 7 one is faced with the dilemma of organising a supercharger drive.
The original 'Ulster' set-up is very restrictive. The drive loads are through the camshaft and its plain front bearing. The diameter and length of the rather undersize Cozette 4/4.5/5 is also a limiting factor. There is not much one can do about the drive ratio beyond fitting the Factory extra toothed 'b*****d' gear.
The Grasshopper set-up is marginal in that the drive is also via the camshaft and its front plain bearing and a modified cast aluminium dynamo housing that is only secured by 4 x 1/4' dia. bolts into the aluminium of the crankcase/front cover.
I think that the way to go is a one-piece crankshaft gear/bevel drive and a vertically mounted Cozette 6/7 for vintage or a Centric 160 for P.V.T.

Stanley Mann (the Bentley dealer) ran a blown Chummy in trials some years ago. The Chummy is now unblown in a new owners hands.

Not withstanding the valid drive problems with a Cozette 4 (or a long bodied one) you should be able to get more grunt low down than a tuned unblown engine. Just remember a decent air filter is a must.
As you say, why not?

Charles

http:[//farm3.static.flickr.com/2047/2291206276_eb51f63f10.jpg]

If you can find it, Mike Morley came up with an alternative - a C75 Shorrock mounted high up on the offside. Illustrated (I hope) below

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2047/2291206276_eb51f63f10.jpg

But what on earth is this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/reddog3d/1662003206/

I'm guessing that it is supposed to be a replica of this... (Click on the thumbnail for big image!)



Also a full article is here. (Including engine layout with all important supercharger.)

Grotty Chummy was running blown on the Exmoor Fringe. Not a ropey old cozette either.

The line drawing of the Duck in Austins article is a very early version of the car note the 14 stud head and Zoller blower.

I suppose strickly speaking it a drawing of Yellow Canary 1010 which was rebuilt as a Duck now owned by Martin Eyre

Its a great effort pity the nose seems wrong would love to know whats under the bonnet or even read the notice card.Is it in Australia?anyone know anything about it

David, I believe it's in Florida. You don't suppose the Waite/Campbell care has finally resurfaced? Only half in jest....
Regards, Stuart