Sometime this year I wish/need to replace the valve guides, as I am told that it is these being worn that are letting by oil into the combustion chambes.
Is this a job for an experienced mechanic? if so is it likely to be an expensive job?

Hello David,
No its very simple, just drift out the old ones then use an old valve and an old guide to tap in the new ones.
John

Thank you John, appreciated.

David, knocking in new guides is indeed very simple but I think you will find you then need a reamer to clean the holes out to fit the valve stems and most likely recut the seats to align with the new guides.

My advice (for what its worth) is only attempt this if you are confident you can do it. The average motor mechanic is likely going to charge you double for sorting out any mistakes as punishment for not taking the job to him in the first place!

Martin

You can buy an adjustable reamer online from www.rdgtools.co.uk. Personally I wouldn't knock them either out nor in, but contrive a little puller from a bit of threaded bar - always seems to work better, for me at least.

No nead to ream them !!!
John

Don't knock them in. They are cast iron and you stand the risk of them breaking. As Alan says, make up a puller out of a length of threaded bar, some stout washers and a couple of nuts. Much safer. To avoid the need for any reaming and to make the installation even easier, heat the block first. I fire one of those heat guns into the tappet chamber for about 20 mins. Makes it a very easy job. Also, if you are having the valve seats re-cut, have this done after the new guides are installed.

For removing the old guides, I do use a brass drift and a hammer.

STEVE

Again I am indebted to you all. Would the diagnosis be correct, that is oil passing thru the guides into combustion chambers. Certainly, as I have mentioned on here previously, the cylider compressions are all good and all even. So my clouds of oil smoke after an prolonged tickover (2 minutes +)and oil smoke clearing following driving for a couple of minutes.

I do not feel that I could 'do the job' and will therefore ask a pro' to undertake the work.

Hello David,
"Clouds of oil smoke" and worn valve guides don't really go together! Yes some oil will pass through worn guides, but on a side valve engine it's not a lot! Although you have good and even compression, it doesn't mean that the oil control rings, and or cylinders aren't worn! In my experience clouds of oil smoke after a long tick over usually results in either a re-bore or re-ring.

John

David - Valve guides AND a re-bore are probably the best idea. You're going to have to strip the engine anyway in order to have the valve guides replaced so why not have the block re-bored at the same time. It will be more expensive because you'll have to change the pistons, but at least you'll know where you are with everything.

By the sound of it your engine is pretty tired so it's not going to be money wasted.

.

Steve.

"if you are having the valve seats re-cut, have this done after the new guides are installed"

I would have thought that this was self-evident!

Sorry, Perhaps I shouldn't have said that.

Mike

Many thanks, I have been deluding myself for some months now regarding my poor little 7. Are those Honda pistons worth the extra money? and any idea on how much an stripdown and rebore with rebuild will cost me?

I am with Jon . Worn valve guides do not contribute to the "clouds of smoke" it is pistons ,rings etc. It is only a problem with over head valve engines. I have always drifted out and in guides using a stepped drift with no problem. Depending how installing went it was occasionally necessary to ream them .

David: How much will the proper job cost? I can tell you how much the various 'elements' will cost in terms of parts and specialist services (re-boring, white metalling and the like) but I can't say how much the stripping down and re-building will cost as I do that myself.

In your position, with an engine that is becoming tired, you can really only do one of two things. You can continue doing jobs on an individual basis, as and when required, and have an engine that always wants the next job doing or you can take a deep breath, bite the bullet and have the whole thing done, properly, once and for all and it will probably last your life out with no other than normal servicing.

The choice is yours. Traditionally, many Seven owners have taken the first route, running their cars on a shoe string and accepting the challenge of not quite knowing what's going to happen next as part of the fun and, yes, I've been there, done that to a certain degree.

These days, I'm very much in the latter camp. Do it once, do it right and then get on enjoying the thing with a reasonable expectation that it will get you to where you are going, and back, time and time again.

The trouble is, to do it right you have to go the whole hog. Re-bore, valves guides, new pistons are fine but, when you've done all that and it's running better than ever, if the crank breaks you can end up having to do it all over again so a full job should include Phoenix crank, new mains, new white metal, modified rods if you use Honda pistons, reconditioned oil pump, re-bore, new pistons, new valves and guides, re-lined clutch set up properly together with a fully cleaned out crankcase and all the various gaskets. Not cheap and the cranks are in short supply at the moment but, once its done, the difference is amazing and it should last a very long time.

Who should do it? Someone who knows their way around A7 engines. The average engine re-conditioner hasn't got a clue when it comes to old engines and some of the more 'general' specialists don't always have the specific experience. You'd be paying for them to gain that experience. Their are others perhaps nearer to you but, if I was having someone doing the work for me, I would go to someone like to Alan Fairless in Cheshire, Ian Bancroft in Grantham or Keith Dobinson near Darlington.

STEVE


STEVE

Steve,
The price for what you describe done by an A7 specialist is going to be £3,000+. If you can afford it and are going to keep your A7 for life its probably the way to go. Get an estimate first as it could easily be a lot more.

Another less comprehensive option would be to buy a recon block. Dave Flake of Quarry Eng. was doing them for around £500 including pistons. Check with Dave but I think this is roughly the spec:-

Block faces machined.
Re-bore, new pistons - Honda or his own sports replica depending on bore size. (Liners if required)
New valves, ground in, with oversize inlet valves.
Hardened exhaust valve seats.
New valve guides?
Side water jacket?
Assembled ready to fit.

Daveg

I'd suggest that if you're not up to rebuilding an Austin Seven engine then owning one might be somewhat frustrating. That's not an "elitist" spanner man talking. It's just that the process is very well documented (possibly better than any other) and clubs abound. Help is widely available.

If you go back 40 or 50 years every undergraduate/ youngster, whether mechanical or not managed it. Even my late father, who had not a mechanical bone in his body, managed to rebuild a sidevalve Morris engine.
Aside from the satisfaction you'll be much better at maintaining the car afterwards.

Charles
(who has his engine in bits at the moment)

£3000 + ? Yes, I can see that as being in the ball park. Depending on what you're starting with you've got something like £2000 - £2500 in parts and specialist labours so another £1000 for taking it apart and putting it back together probably sounds about right.

I've got a new engine I've almost finished on the bench at the moment and if I had paid the full and/or current price for the bits, it would stand me about £2000.

STEVE

Steve and Charles are saying the right things. If you are short of milling machinery, the Flake Engineering route may suit you. The rebuild is a good idea and I would add that it is so much better if you can have an expert looking over your shoulder! I am amazed that we have no recent efforts from Haynes or better, ourselves.
We have the knowledge and a complete sequence that has been tried and tested. The parts are easier to identify now we all have digital cameras and all the hard won experience.
Valve guides are not simply drifted out any old how, but if I understood the drift description, they are moved with a purpose-built shouldered tool. He didn't say what material he used for the tool. Steve's version used a threaded tool and a spanner. I found that a drift finished off the removal and a soft metal drift helped to squeeze it into the bore before screwing it down.
Both work. Don Rawson used very similar techniques on engines I have seen being done. The reamer is not usually necessary, but if you need to.... etc.

To add a note to this: I drove Steve's Chummy recently at Butts Quarry. I found the engine to be one of the most delightful and the clutch/steering/suspension combine to produce a really useful Austin. To prove the point, my driver matched the winning score on the trial but conceded rather than overdo it in a borrowed car! Thankyou Steve.

Thank you chaps for all the advise/comment. 3000 pounds + is currently out of the question for me. If I had access to an 'blow by blow' guide to do the work then I would definitely give it a go, but of course that is'nt available as has been mentioned.

I'm going to have to give this some serious thought, use the car this Summer, sparingly, and then I will have decided course of action.

David, a good buy would be the Austin Seven Manual from

Mercury Vintage Services
Rosedale, Station Road, Emneth, Wisbech, PE14 8DL, UK Map
Tel: +44 (0) 1945 430058
Publishers of the Austin Seven Manual (the red book). We also publish reprints of A7 handbooks and parts lists also Castrol lubrication charts
Email: woodrow@mercuryvintage.freeserve.co.uk

This covers in detail, many of the jobs on an Austin Seven, including the replacement of valve guides.

Thanks for the compliments old boy! It's always nice when someone else gives your car a bit of praise. That your Driver beat me in my car is, perhaps, something we shouldn't dwell on

I understand that the costs now involved in doing 'the full job' can be too much for some and many, many Sevens have continued to do many, many happy miles without anything like this amount of work but, if you are going to keep your car, and you can get the cash together it is by far the best course of action and is cheaper in the long run.

I have two friends who are not in anyway competition minded when it comes to Sevens but they do use their cars a lot both in the UK and in Europe. They have both been down the 'full job' route these last few years and, whilst their was nothing much wrong with their cars beforehand, they have both reveled in the increased performance a tip top engine gives them never mind the knowledge that their engines are as good as they can be when they set out on one of their adventures.

I would endorse the recommendation for Doug Woodrow's book. It's pretty much all in there. Don't be tempted, however, to buy one from the bloke who regularly lists them on Ebay. They frequently go for much more than if you were to purchase direct.

STEVE

Sorry. I was only trying to help!

STEVE

David, plenty of wise counsel above here. But you dont say whether the engine is OK other than smokey. If it starts and is running ok, and compressions equal then I wouldnt fiddle with it at all. All my cars smoke a bit after idling, some smoke a bit all the time but the important things is they are running well and I dont intend to fiddle unless something gives up the ghost.

If it ain't broke,don't mend it.

Norman and Ian, yes I would like to leave well alone but I have to face the truth in as much as my poor little 7 is rather smokey. Last time out, having been stuck in stop/go Q leaving an show, my little blighter fairly obliterated the A140 for a good half mile. It was so bad all I could see in my rear view mirror was dence blue smoke- If one of our boys in blue had seen it I feel sure he would pull me over.
Top speed is down to about 37mph too, so unfortunately my engine has took rather an nose dive into poor health. Still once thats resolved I will be maintaining my proud ownership with the customary smile

So it's new rings,or more realistically, a rebore and new pistons.There is no need to go for Honda pistons,unless you intend going racing.You might as well do the valves and guides at the same time. DO NOT leave it to the tender mercies of your local garage,get someone who knows what they're doing to fettle it for you.There's a huge choice out there.

You have been given a lot of good advice but I would strongly suggest that you join a local Austin Seven club and get to know the members and I am sure several will be more than happy to give you advice and help after seeing your car. Getting the red book is probably the best advice. Rebuilding an engine is not very difficult if you have someone local that you can turn to for help. A large tool kit is not required and you can do most things yourself except the actual rebore.I know quite a few people with very limited experience who have rebuilt an engine and get a great deal of satisfaction from driving round with an engine they have rebuilt themselves. Unless you live at the north pole I bet you will not be far from someone who will be delighted to help. This is something I have found over the last thirty year or so, we Austin Seven nuts are really quite a friendly bunch, good luck with your quest

You'll need a good machine shop to do the valves/rebore,regrinds. I use ELB Engineering in Sudbury, Suffolk. Very sound traditional motor engineers

Charles

Thank you Charles, Sudbury is fairly close to me as well so thats an added bonus.

David,

If money is tight, providing you're reasonably knowledgeable you could just take the block off and stick in a new set of rings. That in itself may solve your excessive smoking. I seem to remember you posted some time back about your engine having overheated so you may have siezed a ring or two. Before you start spending on parts, take it to bits and have a good look at everything. I'm sure this smoking is due to oil passing from the crankcase via the pistons/rings rather than via the valve guides. If you can't afford a complete re-build you might just make a difference with a set of rings, providing everything else is OK, and it won't cost you much other than your time and effort.

Thank you, yes I did badly overheat the engine and it was following this that it started to smoke getting steadily worse. From all the sound advise and comment here I shall take the plunge and at least get the block off for inspection. I can do this with engine in situ so that suits me fine. It may not get done now until Autunm but I shall post back and let everyone know the outcome.

I'd take the engine out if I were you - it's easier to work on it on the bench and less strain on your back! You can take the engine and gearbox out as one lump and if you've got a willing helper you can do it without a block & tackle.

Hi David
One of our members used these, which is very close to were you live. Scholar Engines, Blue House Lane, Mendlesham, Stowmarket, Suffolk, IP14 5NH.
Telephone 01449 767711, Fax 01449 767772. There is also B & E Randall, Summer Rd, Hepworth, 01359 251888. who are good BUT slow.

Mel

David,
DO take the engine out if you intend removing the bloc.Putting the bloc back on later is VERY difficult in situ.
,even more so in a Swallow.

Mel mentions Randalls for engineering. I've used them, along with a number of pals in the cambridge area and always found them excellent. Stuff delivered on Saturday was available the next. I've used them for machining (balancing, boring skimming and valve seat work). Hope that helps

PS - having followed you out of the field at Rougham last year, I'm pleased to hear your getting round to doing the engine!

I entirely agree with Ian ,having attempted it once to 'save' time I would always have the engine out to replace the block.

Again I am most indebted to all my A7 Friends for all the advise and recommendations.

Just to reiterate, I will be having the engine sorted in the Autunm of this year, therefore should you have the misfortune to get stuck behind me at some point this Summer you will be treated to an James Bond style fog Sorry!

Meanwhile I need to get saving up some cash

Good luck with the rebuild David. It's a very satisfying moment when you swing the handle and your rebuilt engine runs well.
I agree with Ian and the other David re taking the engine out, it is MUCH easier to work on. I once stopped at a small village garage in my box saloon for petrol, the old boy who served me showed me the hideous scars on his fingers which he received as a young apprentice when trying to refit the block of an A7. He had not thought to disconnect the battery and with fingers trying to guide the pistons into the cylinders nudged the starter cable with his left forearm!!

I knock the old guides out with brass drift ,clean up the block for the guides .place the new guides in the freezer overnight,the place the block in the oven & heat to 150 c then the new guides are gently tapped into place.Best done when partner is out.Recut v/v seats all ok.

Thanks Lance, yes I will certainly heed the good advise here to remove the engine from the car. Fortunately when I mentioned this to my Bro' he said I have an engine hoist you can use! result. The engine will be coming out in July/ August and then I will have decided if I will have a go or book it in with Andy Shepard.