Oops! Should really fix the speedo...

Location: Buxted, East Sussex

At least you were smiling for the camera.

So which type of camera takes an oncoming shot on the other side of the road?

This is my old friend a Truvello camera but most importantly you have, with that photo, increased the selling price of your Austin by £500!!

Chris

Location in the Garage

Location: Buxted, East Sussex

Nice photo! definitely a Truvelo camera (Don't ask me how I know...) Two give aways - the pink tint to the image from the camera flash (it's infra red)and the calibration marks (the three white lines across the road)- these are completely different from the Gatso ones as only one photo is taken rather than two on the Gatso system. If the camera is operating correctly the wheels of the vehicle appear on the middle of the three parallel lines. Truvelo speed calculation is done by peizo electric cable detectors in the road surface, NOT radar.

I hope you've had the FPN (sorry, fixed penalty notice)framed for posterity. We Saloon owners just DREAM of getting one!

Location: Down a french rat hole

I have a pal with a similar photo. His wife had it printed on a T-shirt which he now wears with pride at Club nights!

Location: Cambridge

This thread is nice timing, because we were having a discussion a couple of days ago about whether a Truvelo camera can make out a numberplate when the car has its headlights on at night - does anyone know?

David

Yes. Night time doesn't make any difference.The camera flash, whether it be infra red or white light (Gatso) is far more powerful than the vehicle headlamps and cancels the effect of any glare apparent to the human eye.

In any case the Safety camera Partnerships have digital means of looking at the captured images to render registration plates more easily read if there are any problems (such as reversing the image from negative to negative, enlargement, colour reduction/enhancement, magnification etc.

Don't listen to the snake oil salesmen that try to sell you the "unreadeable" number plate covering. Trust me, it doesn't work...

A speeding ticket while driving an Austin Seven, now that is impressive...as they say down this neck of the woods, fair play chap!

Location: Near Bicester

Yes, Ivor. But I thought more impressive was Robin Boyce being caught speeding in his 1923 Chummy - yes, his '23 Chummy - a few months back? He told me (via email) that to avoid losing points he had to attend lectures (presumably along with all the other criminals). Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Mount Eliza, Melbourne, Australia

Personally, for anyone to get caught speeding I'd advise taking the points and just paying the £60 - unless you're a recidivist and are getting close to the 12 point ban.

The "Safe Driving" course costs more than the fixed penalty AND takes up half a day of your time.

Granted, you might learn something, but what price to you put on your time. Three points is nothing if you're generally well behaved (apart from a dent in your self image) and who is going to know anyway... unless you tell everyone.

Location: No longer in the Stasi

After 45 years of clean licence I moved to Northampton and have now managed to rack up 2 speeding offences, both 33 mph in a 30 limit. I've had re-programming both times as it costs the same as the penalty and means I can still claim to have a clean licence! Actually the reform school routine is quite well done, informative and not at all patronising or sensationalist...

Blimey, 33 in a 30 is a bit strict! I would have disputed that.

From what I can gather money gathered from fines (ie you take the points) goes to the government and money taken if you take the course goes to the camera fund.

Location: Buxted, East Sussex

Location: Salop

Austin,

Here the limit is 3 kph over the posted speed - which at 60 kph is probably less than the speedo accuracy!!!!
After no speed bookings for 15 years, in the last two years I now have had 5 fines, all for exceeding the limit by less than 10 kph and gained five of the allowable 12 points befor mandatory licence loss.I tried challenge the first three - no changes.

None in the Austins so far!

Tony.

Location: Melbourne, Australia.

Location: Near Bicester

Unless things have changed since I left the UK, the prosecution criteria for ALL speeding offences recommended by ACPO was 10% plus 2mph - which means in a 30mph limit you would be prosecuted for 35 and above. Whilst I don't dispute David that you have fallen foul of the Northamptonshire Safety camera Partnership, I'd be interested in seeing documented proof of your two 33mph offences...

In terms of "you won't get there any faster" I had a Nissan 370Z for two weeks as a prize from the TopGear website. I left the Goodwood Festival an hour and a half later than MrsL in the 1985 Merc 300TE and got home an hour earlier than she did.

We weren't pushing it that hard, respected the limits, but taking a cross country route and being able to squirt past the caravans and tractors we covered the ground in half the time they did.

The question is what was the route and what was the car? Where the back road classic struggles is with the hills which, with somewhat more than 300bhp, just don't exist. It also takes the corners twice as fast as a classic car and stops in half the distance. Its another world... BUT the tyres were over a grand a set and we took half the life out them (traction control on the WHOLE time and no childishness at all) in 1500 miles. Apparently a track day can be two sets.

Of course on the same route as she took I'd be in the same traffic, take the same time, and be a whole lot less comfortable.

David

Location: Lewisham

Yes, there are quite a few forces who will try to have you to the letter of the law concerning the speed. North Wales police being another.

The 'game' is great fun if you play it, but a ball ache.

Location: Salop

I'm sure I read somewhere that the upright windscreen and radiator on a Chummy produced a higher reading than reality.
Is anyone abble to confirm that?

Location: Near Jtn 28 On M1

I can confirm that it's complete cobblers, especially when the camera is a 'Truvelo' because it works not on radar or laser but on peizo electric detectors in the road surface.

If it's a Gatso, the equipment takes two photographs showing the vehicle in the road markings. Knowing the time interval of the photos and the distances between the calibrated marks the real speed can easily be verified. Most Gatsos use rear photography which renders the argument a little perverse.

If it's a laser device the operator cannot get a lock-on until the equipment is satified that the return signal is correct. In fact a flat radiator & windscreen will give a better & quicker lock-on rather than the curved shape of most moderns as the return signal is less scattered.

If it's a SPECS system, it calculates average speed between two fixed points as the vehicle passes the ANPR (automatic number plate reader)No radar or laser is used - it's a visual recognition device and searches for number plates.

Location: Shropshire

I was caught by a camera near Preston Park in Brighton "accelerating" away from traffic lights after an Austin Seven run. I was at the front of a queue of traffic and was trying not to hold up the moderns. 38mph - on three cylinders, I stopped on the outskirts of town and changed a plug.

Location: The south-eastern corner of Surrey

I recall a Chief of Police on Radio 4 a couple of years ago being pressed by the interviewer on the changing lanes question. The CoP reluctantly admitted that the operation of the average speed cameras was governed by legislation which prevented the prosecution of a driver who, in the course of committing an offence, had changed lanes so as to be checked in a lane different to the one which first recorded the vehicles speed. So, it isn't a technical glitch and never was; it's a legislative nonsense of the type we seem to be particularly good at.
I'm not a fast driver but I have on occassion been less mindful of the speed limit than I should have been. As a matter of course, I change lanes as I pass each average speed camera and have yet to receive the glossy in the post.

A pal of mine assured me the other day that no-one in the UK has ever been prosecuted for exceeding an average speed limit. I certainly had never heard of one. Anyone here know of one (perhaps Reckers is the man to ask, he certainly seems to be 'in the know' )

Location: Cambridge

You can ask... but bear in mind I haven't given a toss for almost 10 years. (I have considered changing my pseudonym to Rhett Butler).

I am sure there will have been some prosecutions using SPECS, but you'd be best to ask either the Highways Agency or one of the Police Forces concerned. There are SPECS in operation on sites other than motorway roadworks - the A616(T), for example, between the M1 and the A629 Woodhead Pass

Given the extensive logistics involved in setting up a SPECS system I doubt that anyone would go to those lengths without making it operational. However... perhaps the number of prosecutions is low because most people comply with the restriction. Levels of compliance nearly always increase in proportion to the perception of the risk of getting caught and with most cars these days having cruise control it's not hard to stick at the required speed until out of the detection zone.

That doesn't mean however that there aren't a few plonkers about who either do not see or choose to ignore the signs.

Location: In retirement heaven

I don't know whether I'm one of the plonkers referred to but, to find yourself momentarily doing marginally over 50 in a 50 limit when there are average speed cameras about - especially easy if you don't have cruise control - is hardly cause for rebuke or indeed a fine. The conclusion that an excess of speed must automatically be a velocity verging on the reckless and dangerous is rather silly.

It's funny how you can be done for speeding , even if there is no one else about , and you aren't endangering anyone, but you can get away with having your hand caught in the Westminster till even if all the relevant paperwork shows what you are up to !!
Perhaps those who make the laws don't need to obey them .

End of rant , going for a kip now .

Merv

Location: New Forest

Location: Lands End - nearby...

In Newlyn there's a long hill, approx 16%, with a 20mph limit.
Various people have asked for Camera's etc., but apparently the guideline speed for approval of the equipement is not being met.
Legally parked cars etc., make it a difficult journey anyway, but I admit if you do 20mph up, or down, there are a lot of very frustrated drivers around you.

I'm always minded the national speed limit for HGV's on single carriageway roads is 40mph, think of some of the chaos that would create if the drivers decided to stick to that - Some have been fined on the A30 at Roseworthy dip (near Hayle) for exceeding 40mph, including some big White Transit vans - Speed Camera there. There's 3 cameras between Penzance and Exeter (c. 120 miles) and I think only 1 westbound.

Location: Near Lands End - UK

Maybe there is a cunning plan to get everyone off the road for speeding offences, then the national carbon footprint will be reduced and we will keep our Masters in Brussels happy, and the money from fines etc. will reduce the National Debt.
Job Done !!

Merv

Sandy, Speed limit for a 3.5 Tonne Transit is 50 on a single and 60 on a double carrigeway.
My Transit is fitted with a tracker and every time I go at all over the limit my boss gets an email!!
My boss is responsible for lots of vehicles and gets LOTS of emails .

Steve

Steve, my apologies, I shall shoot the messenger.

50mph. Umph. I wonder if half the drivers know that.
Not forgetting of course the standard Transit is (I believe) a 35cwt vehicle - OK I'm using rule of thumb from 30+ years ago.

Location: Near Lands End - UK

A friend was photographed doing 114mph in a 40 zone in his standard Land-Rover! The car going the other way (which he hardly managed to avoid and certainly hardly saw) was reckoned to be the culprit though it didn't appear in any way in the photo. Neither party was prosecuted. What speed do you have to go to get away with it?

Seem to remember a Top Gear item in which they set up a camera half way down the runway and tried to outrun it.
Their experiment showed that there was no maximum speed "to get away with it"

In the crowded South East

Oh yes there is :)

...show the film.

Location: Lewisham

So who is going to be the first to repeat the achievement in their Seven?

A couple of boring points:

A third of the people (including me) on the speed awareness course were doing over 30 on a downhill stretch.

If you are driving "a car derived van" your national limit is 60. ALL other vans (non HGV) are limited to 50. Van derived cars, like those people carrier things weren't mentioned.

I put this in because my everyday transport is a van,
and not a lot of people know these limits.
No-one on the course knew about the 40 limit on HGVs.

Cheers

Simon

Location: On a hill in Wiltshire, but here there and everywhere because NOW MOBILE

Simon
thats very interesting!
I work for a local authority and we have strict rules and info telling us that our non hgv transits are 50 on single and 60 on dual carrigeway? This seems different to what you have been told?
I will have to do some digging I think because with the increasing numbers of camera cars and mobile vans etc I wouldn't want any of our staff to fall foul of the law unintentionally.

Steve

We agree, I think: a Transit is not a car derived van ie not a Fiesta type van, and so is limited to 50/60 as you say.
"Lorries" should do 40 on single carriageways (not sure about dual - have to check - but they almost never do.

Simon

Location: On a hill in Wiltshire, but here there and everywhere because NOW MOBILE

All the limits are here

Location: Lands End - nearby...

[quote="Slack Alice" Simon]"Lorries" should do 40 on single carriageways...... - but they almost never do.
[/quote]
As stated earlier in the thread, imagine the situation this would create, 40mph max. mile after mile after ......

This was a scenario back in the 90's when I got done for speeding after 8 miles behind a lorry and trailer doing around 45 - 50 mph.
I had, at last a clear straight road to overtake, foot down - Volvo 740 - Pass and pull back in, ease to 60mph, there was a camera behind a sign on the other side of the road - done.

Location: Lands End - nearby...