I have noted the car GW 82 has what is described as a "holder" for a relay flag on the front of the radiator. At the above event the teams used a sash as the method of replacing one car with the next. This seems to have been the accepted method during relay races, and still is. In what relay event is this car supposed to have carried a relay flag mounted on the front of the radiator? Also at the preceding Irish GP and subsequent Ards TT the team cars carried the same "holder". Clearly this appendage was for some other purpose, but what?
Simon Thomas

Location: Comber Northern Ireland

There are close ups of each of the cars if you click on the image.

Location: Buxted, East Sussex

Thanks Austin
I have looked at this photo but it does not really show much detail. As I said flags were not carried on the "holders" and the competitors used sashes. Were these "holders" (for want a better description) an additional part of the cooling system?
Simon Thomas

Location: Comber Northern Ireland

Slightly later pic. 1941 at the 750 MC meeting at Osterley Park Hotel. Then owned by Tom Lush who may or may not be the man with the flat cap beside it. "Holder" still in position. The original seems to have disappeared some time in the 1950's. Mike Eyre made the replica when he restored the car in the early 1960's.

My memory may be faulty but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the pennants were used in multi-driver endurance events ( e.g. Le Mans) to indicate which driver was in the car.

Ian Mc.

Location: Shropshire

Ye Gods!
Slicks in the rain
They could teach modern racers a thing me thinks.
Hardy people those early proponents.
Early aviators as well.

Geoff - Rainshield oh so nearly finished

Location: South Norfolk - near Suffolk, UK

Ian
No, this was not in the regulations for Le Mans. The car was more important than who was driving it at any time. Was the "holder" some sort of overflow for the radiator? Hard to imagine this as the boiling water would have blown back over the driver and riding mechanic.
Simon Thomas

Location: Comber Northern Ireland

Henry
So too has the extended radiator filler cap.
Simon Thomas

Location: Comber Northern Ireland

Simon,Any chance of some up to date pictures of your car????????????????

or is it still "hidden"?

You people need to get a life.

Looking at the LAT photos for 1931 again is it possible the extended filler on the radiator may have been to increase the volume of water held? Maybe someone, even Norman, could work this out based on the approximate height and inner diameter of the extension/tower, beyond me I am afraid. Still does not help though with the "handle"! Was this linked to the extension/tower? Strange too the Austin badge was removed to facilitate the "handle"? Such an interesting life I lead.
Simon Thomas

Location: Comber Northern Ireland

Simon - re your question "is the radiator-tower to increase volume of water?" - I doubt it, as the extra volume would be infinitesimal. The first time I reallly noticed a water-tower on a Seven was in photos of Arthur Waite's Australian Grand Prix winning racer, so I later asked him why the tall tower. He said that it consisted of a coiled copper tube which brought any steam (from overheating) rising up into the tower, then (hopefully) the cooled & condensed liquid ran back down into the radiator. (I'm not sure how well this worked, it was possibly more there to prevent any superheated water pressure-blowing off the cap?). I remained satisfied with his explanation until in recent years I noticed in photos that the towers on some Sevens also had an overflow pipe running from the tower down the side of the car. (A good example is the photo of Metchim's car with my article on Sevens at Le Mans in A7A magazine 2011D). Anyone with better guesses? Apologies that none of this explains the mystery of the radiator brackets. Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Mount Eliza, Australia

Bill
Thank you for the information, thought provoking! It is always interesting when period information comes forward from first hand discussion. I have details of Metchim in a chapter in Boddy's Austin Seven book. Metchim refers to "a magnificent large capacity radiator". Did the 1930/31 Ulsters have these?
Simon Thomas

Simon - looking at the photos of Metchim's car I doubt there's any noticeable dimension difference to the bodywork there, so perhaps the only alleged increase of acqua was by fitting a thicker core. This has been done by a friend on one of 12 'Austral' Specials I built, and he swears by the effectiveness. Metchim had already stated that no fan was fitted, so a thicker (say 3"?) core would have required no other modification. Re your Ulster question - Whether or not any had this originally (as far as I can tell not in this country, anyway) is up to the experts. I doubt it as you probably know the radiators on the blown versions were further forward than the unblown ones, to give clearance for the extra bits. A thicker core there would be impracticable & un-necessary because of the water-pump fitted. Unfortunately we don't seem to have photos of the under-bonnet area of Metchim's cars, so if he was correct, perhaps instead of a thicker core a header tank was utilized? I think we're now into the realm of guessingland. Good Luck & Cheers, Bill

Location: Mount Eliza, Australia

Bill,

Looking through Austin's photographs, many early racers seem to have a horizintal multi coil (copper?)tube out of the cap with a flexible pipe down the side of the cowl, to be followed by the towers (with no obvious drains), replaced later again by more coils and pipes.

When I built up the Meteor in the 50's, I fitted a copper pipe vertical coil with overflow to the cap - seemed to be the thing to do, no idea what benefit other than to be able to see the steam or water overflow, unless it should have been directed into a catchpot to condense and be drawn back on cooling. I don't remember blocking off the radiator drain pipe making it all a bit of show.

Also, Looking closely at the Team car pictures above - on either side of that strange fitting on the cowl, there are four bolt heads? just outside the badge holes, possibly holding something inside?

I think one of the pictures of an early Gordon England or Works racer seems to show a much thicker core under the header tank.

Tony.

Location: Melbourne

Tony
I agree, the four bolts must be for another purpose than just securing the holder/bracket. There is not a lot of room though for anything behind it. As Bill says guesswork but we can at least eliminate a few alternatives.
Simon Thomas
Comber, on the Ards TT circuit!

Hi Simon,
I knew I'd seen it somewhere and, by chance, I came across it again today.
On page 29 of the "Companion" there is a short piece reproducing something written by Martin Eyre in the October 1965 Register Newsletter. I quote from this:

"Yet another point is that most photographs of T.T. Ulsters show the normal Austin radiator badge to have been removed and a sort of 'Cross of Lorraine' emblem substituted. Much work with a magnifying glass failed to yield any detail of this emblem and no one could tell me what it was. Eventually I contacted Col.Waite (Lord Austin's son-in law) who took an immense amount of trouble to find out that it was, in fact, not an emblem at all; it was a small piece of tube held to the radiator shell by two small pipe clamps, and this was used to mount a 'Team Flag' when the team ran in relay races!!!"

I can add nothing more than this.

Cheers, Ian Mc.

Location: Shropshire

Ian (and others) - at last a logical solution, good work. The next trick would be to find a photo which showed a flag actually in use. I don't recall noticing any, but i'm not suggesting they weren't used. Cheers, Bill in Oz

Location: Mount Eliza, Australia

If Col.Waite said the bracket was for relay races that is it. But! The works entries in 1931 appeared at the D12 at Brooklands, Irish GP, LCC Relay race and TT with the bracket in place. Only one relay race and no photographic evidence whatsoever in that race of a flag required or used by any of the competing cars. However Col.Waite did not say the bracket was in anyway related to cooling purposes. Progress.
Simon Thomas

Could the logical answer be that they were fitted to carry relay flags but through a late change of plan never used? Prehaps we will never know for sure.

I think it was a fiendish plan by the experimental department to fool us all. Imagine the scene,

"This'll get 'em talking in years to come"

"What is it?"

"Dunno?"

"Excellent! Bolt it on the front..."

The article was by Mike Eyre not Martin Eyre. Mike Eyre was a previous owner of GW82

Location: Staffs

Thanks for the correction Peter, I had been reading something of Martin Eyre's previously, the bit in the Green Book was just M. Eyre and I automatically typed Martin. Getting old!!

Ian Mc.

Location: Shropshire

Thank you everyone for the comments. I hope to have a copy of the regulations for the LCC Relay race shortly. This will at least confirm the requirements when the cars changed over during the race.
One other point though for the moment. Col. Waite was meticulous planning his race entries and strategies. For example running an unblown car in the 1930 D12 for the Barnes brothers and driving an unblown car at Phoenix Park in 1930 based on handicaps awarded. Finally it is well documented how thorough his preparations were for both the Brooklands 500 and subsequent record breaking successes in late 1930. Just seems odd he should put the bracket/holder on the cars if they were not be used and leave them there for the whole 1931 season.
Simon Thomas

I have just bought a copy of the race programme for this race. To quote directly from the race details. "........on the 30th lap the driver will pull into the limit area, stop at the line and hand the sash to the second driver".
No mention of a flag to be placed on the radiator? So I come back to my origional question, what was the purpose of the bracket on the radiator?
Simon

Location: Near Comber

Why do I keep replying to my own email?
Anyway the works entries are described in the programme as orange in colour? They do look rather darker than that in the winners photo? Hmmmmmm.Most interesting the colours of the Austins in the other private teams.
Simon

Location: Near Comber

The answer is: 
You rub people up the wrong way 

Location: Hove

Hi E
Fine and ok I accept what you have said, but why stifle healthy debate because of personalities? Am I the only one who finds this topic of interest, certainly by the recent number of people who have looked at it I do not think so? Having said that clearly as there have been no new posts I must have rubbed all Austin enthusiasts the wrong way? How to win friends and influence people?
No hard feelings anyway to you all out there! Back to the garage for a bit of Ulster fettling.
Simon

Location: Near Comber