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MOTs to go

It has been announced today that the MOT requirement is to be removed for all pre-1960 cars. This will happen before November 18th this year.

Announcement.

Location: Buxted

Re: MOTs to go

Congratulations you lot. Interesting to me, 'cos I would have thought that the older bangers would need more policing than moderns as far as roadworthiness is concerned. Not sure the wording "Historic" is apt when you can build a special today with many mods, apart from a kosher recorded chassis, that are far removed from the original concept - perhaps there's a better choice of word?. Couldn't help chuckling about them thinking most Austin Seven drivers only doing 500 per year. Good Luck & Cheers, Bill

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: MOTs to go

Uhmn, well I voted for the retention of MoT's, because I felt it was a good, independent review of one's car. Still they do mention voluntary MoT's.

Thanks Austin for bringing it to our attention.

PS - I may have my sums wrong, but 0.6% of 35.2m = 193,200 vehicles.
At this point there seems to me a vague area as to what % failed their MoT's, it quotes 10% for initial MoT.
It depends what initial MoT means, I thought yearly MoT, with a number taking a second (or more) MoT to pass.
If it's 10% of all the cars, that's 19,320 a year, if so that's not a figure I'm comfortable with......
Based on the fact that a lot of the 193,200 cars are 'static', etc.,

Re: MOTs to go

sounds like a sad day to me.

as a supplier of parts i get a high call for tyres in spring.because the cars fail there mot`s.let alone the jobs that most dont like to do like kingpins.

would these people still put on new tyres if there is no MOT.

and on top of all this many many of us want our cars to keep up with traffic.as we feel safer that way.

this could be a deadly combinasion in the future as old cars change hands with no mot.

Re: MOTs to go

I agree with Tony on this, though I hadn't thought in terms of the parts suppliers,
It was the up-coming MoT that made look at my tyres all round and then realise I had to change some...
....and there seems to be potential in the area of Insurance to become muddy.
Personal AND Third Party safety is VERY important.

We become 'familiar' with our own cars (failings), let a lay person drive them and 'They Don't Believe It'.

A few years ago, I had to tow my A7 home (on a rope) about half a mile,
a friend in the village (he has a 3 wheel Morgan) got in my 7 to steer it through the village,
he said he's never been so scared before (and I've met his wife too.. ),
I thought the steering was OK, but in fact it did need a wee tweak having taken note of his remarks....
..... and the beer I had to buy him to calm his nerves.

Re: MOTs to go

I agree with all that's been said here - I don't think removal of the MOT test, especially for cars as late as 1960, is a good idea; perhaps if the cut-off date had been 1904, or even 1914, I could have accepted it, but this...

Re: MOTs to go

Strange thing is that I've never met a pre-war car owner who agrees with this (although both on here an the VSCC website there have been a small handful of people supporting it).
How come the FBHVC survey came out in favour? Seems that they didn't represent the interests of my old car chums on this one.

Charles

Re: MOTs to go

Well, you've met one now Charles.

I run two roadworthy old vehicles that are already MOT exempt. One pre war, the other post war.

It seems I'll be running three in future.

Good news for me. No big deal.

Re: MOTs to go

Sandy Croall
I agree with Tony on this, though I hadn't thought in terms of the parts suppliers,

hi sandy,i hope it doesnt make me look like a crying supplier.

but for the humble supplier life works very simply.

if people have a call for a part or buy more of a part.then the supplier re-stocks.

if a part doesn`t very often get bought then the supplier doesn`t replace it.

so,if a high number of people stop working on there cars.because they dont have an MOT to worry about.the result may be that for the small number of people who do keep there cars saftley on the road.may find the parts are not so available as they were.

parts suppliers need you.the same as you need parts suppliers.

the knock on effect will quikley be apparent. tony

Re: MOTs to go

Charles P
Strange thing is that I've never met a pre-war car owner who agrees with this ...

Hardly any for me as well. Perhaps we don't move in the right (?) circles! I suspect it could be the large number of mainly 1950s classic car owners who have influenced the statistics in favour of exemption from the MoT.

David

Re: MOTs to go

In a chat over aperitif's before dinner in the local this evening,
all six of us who have pre-1960 cars are amazed they are stopping MoT's......

One example cited by a XK140 owner was that it was the rolling road that showed up his front near side brake was a lot less efficient than the off side, strip down and a brake cylinder needed renewing.
He tootles about in the XK locally or bowles along the A30 going up country, never had to brake quickly (he told us).
No MoT, he may not have known the brakes weren't up to it until he found out they weren't - but to late.

Of course there are very good people out there about looking after their cars, but I expect there's far more who don't know how to, and I've said it before, how often do we have a car up on a ramp and have a good, critical look around underneath.

Re: MOTs to go

Hedd Jones
Well, you've met one now Charles.

I run two roadworthy old vehicles that are already MOT exempt. One pre war, the other post war.

It seems I'll be running three in future.

Good news for me. No big deal.


Hedd - Unless my fading memory is failing me we've never actually met

Charles

Re: MOTs to go

David Cochrane
Charles P
Strange thing is that I've never met a pre-war car owner who agrees with this ...

Hardly any for me as well. Perhaps we don't move in the right (?) circles! I suspect it could be the large number of mainly 1950s classic car owners who have influenced the statistics in favour of exemption from the MoT.

David


David

Possibly not but that's our circle.

However only 355 private individuals responded to the government questionnaire so I suppose that anyone who didn't respond can't complain. After all it was clear that the FBHVC were keen for a change after their "survey".

However with this market research of this size you wouldn't make a business decision.... but the Government works in mysterious ways etc, etc

Charles

Re: MOTs to go

A foolish decision has been made, what a pity.

Re: MOTs to go

Interesting, for older cars here in NZ you have to do a MOT (we call it a WOF - Warrant of Fitness) ever 6 months for cars older than 6 years (every 12 months for new cars).

Might be a business opportunity there for someone setting up a service to inspect peoples cars for them! I do all my own work on my cars but as an amateur I like having someone who knows what they are looking at (supposedly) check them over too.

Location: Auckland

Re: MOTs to go

Ruairidh Dunford
A foolish decision has been made, what a pity.
I couldnt agree more.

I think Sir Humphrey would have said "That is a very brave decision minister" I cant see it changing the way anyone votes, and if anything it will be bad for the economy as parts suppliers and garages will loose business, so why do it?

I wonder how the insurance companies will respond.

The worry is someone in a heap with no mot or brakes will cause a serious accident and the government will have a knee jerk raction and restrict the use of pre 1960 cars.

Dave

Re: MOTs to go

i must be thinking about this one to much,but voluntary MOT`s !!!!

even if someone put there car in for one.what if it fails.
do you just drive your old car anyway,as it doesnt need an MOT.and carry on using it.

also being a glass half empty person,will we just get away with driving our damgerous old cars.or as in the subject of vans,once the police are alerted to old cars not needing MOTS,will we be pulled over every time we go out in them.

Re: MOTs to go

Tony Press has made comment on this subject under the "Sandy, where are you" file, but to elaborate - in Victoria we only have to have a Roadworthy Certificate if first registering a car or when it changes hands (even to a family member). Personally I would think this ridiculous, but have to admit as Tony said there is no evidence of collisions or problems to indicate any dramas with older cars. Also, by comparison, in New South Wales all cars are checked annually, and I seem to think the same in Western Australia, again no evidence that it's made the roads or cars any safer, because as Tony says the older-car brigade are responsible enough to ensure they maintain their valuable toys in safe condition. So I can see both sides of the argument. I'm well aware of the two-a-year set-up in New Zealand. Before I took a just-restored 1925 Chummy there it had a Roadworthy Certificate issued only one day before going on the ferry, yet on arrival had to have it all done again. This included testing the brakes by charging down the testing-station driveway and applying them when instructed. I had visions of T-boning a Morris 1100 further down the drive, but luckily the 6" brake set-up being new even worked to the point of locking up! (Have to admit I pushed the pedal so hard I walked sideways when I got out!) Cheers, Bill

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: MOTs to go

Should have discussed this here - naughty, but it was close

Out of interest, now that the Victorian Vehicle Roadworthy requirements are being made more comprehensive including fancy brake tests (not rolling road yet) and photographing brake gear etc it is getting a bit more confusing to have our 80 year olds inspected by the younger brigade of testers.

For Club Red Plate Registration, the reduced cost 90 day per year permit, some local car clubs run their own approved internal 'vehicle safety check' which must be run 'in house' and this has insurance implications.
To avoid this problem our club requires an proper Roadworthy Certificate to approve an application for Club Red Plate Registration.

I understand that in fact the Victorian Vehicle Roadworthy tests for older vehicles should be carried out to the standards applying to the age of the vehicle, a fact not known to most approved testers. Thus it is important to locate a competent, friendly tester.

I wonder if following removal of the MOT will there be any sort of check on a pre 1960 vehicle when it changes hands in the UK, which seems to me to be a good thing, even if I don't subscribe to annual testing.

Tony.

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: MOTs to go

I'm with the retain MoTs group. My next MoT is due in September so will be one of the last before they end. I will still take my car in for examination next year as I feel a different set of eyes would be beneficial to spot any problems.

Location: Near M1 Jtn 28

Re: MOTs to go

Good morning all. Just wait until someone is killed or injured by one of these 'old bangers'. Draconian legislation will kick in to force us off the road except for certain exceptions - Sundays, before dusk etc.. circumstances that I understand exist in parts of Australia. I sold a pair of RN headlamps to a chap from Perth WA and when I said that the light output was excellent he said that was of no consequence to him as they were not permitted to use there cars after dusk.
Regards
Stuart

Location: Staffordshire

Re: MOTs to go

Will it still be possible for us to take our cars for a "dummy" MoT to a test station ,and do the test but not be logged onto the computer on line to vosa/dvla ?

Re: MOTs to go

Ah, Nigel's comments has stirred something in my grey matter.

At present, to Transfer a Reg. No. The vehicle MUST have a valid MoT certificate,
but don't get me started on Clones etc., to bypass that.
So are they relaxing that aspect.

Re: MOTs to go

Stuart,

My goodness you do have a very jaundiced view of fellow vintage car owners

Don't know about WA - they apparently don't recognise Victorian permits either - but then they are a long way away in all senses.

Tony.

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: MOTs to go

Sandy Croall
Ah, Nigel's comments has stirred something in my grey matter.

At present, to Transfer a Reg. No. The vehicle MUST have a valid MoT certificate,
but don't get me started on Clones etc., to bypass that.
So are they relaxing that aspect.


I was concerned that the number plate pirates would be out there raping "barn finds" of valuable registration numbers, but If you read the registration transfer rules, you cannot currently transfer a VRM from a vehicle which is MoT exempt..... this is why commercials and tractors tend to still be carrying the original number, where 90% of the pre 63 cars have been replated already.

I think scrapping the MOT is a very silly idea, but I think the insurance companies will have something to say about it...then of course, in comes the EU style restrictions as to where and how many days a year you can drive your old car...or am I just being paranoid?

Location: Near Bicester

Re: MOTs to go

hi ivor,

i noticed in the original announcement link the magic words (EU) came up.
considering what they have done to everything else in the uk in the past.
i cant beleive they have any good news for old car owners.
cant think of anything they have improved.but plenty of things we cant do anymore.

all we can do is see what the EU comes up with next for us.

Re: MOTs to go

You might not have to worry.

I watch with horrified fascination, wondering if the European Union will survive the demise of the Euro.

Or is it all just a storm in a teacup?

Tony.

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: MOTs to go

Ivor Hawkins
Sandy Croall
Ah, Nigel's comments has stirred something in my grey matter.

At present, to Transfer a Reg. No. The vehicle MUST have a valid MoT certificate,
but don't get me started on Clones etc., to bypass that.
So are they relaxing that aspect.


I was concerned that the number plate pirates would be out there raping "barn finds" of valuable registration numbers, but If you read the registration transfer rules, you cannot currently transfer a VRM from a vehicle which is MoT exempt..... this is why commercials and tractors tend to still be carrying the original number, where 90% of the pre 63 cars have been replated already.



That is at least a good bit of news, it will of course bugger up the reg. transfer business a bit though. (No bad thing in my opinion!)

Location: Buxted

Re: MOTs to go

Every cloud...

Re: MOTs to go

Credit to Austin for pointing me in the direction of this :

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/road-cars/opinions/the-real-cost-of-mot-exemption/

Re: MOTs to go

Hi there ,
I voted against the change to MOT's .
Just tie the topic of "no more MOT for oldie vehicles" to the recent discussion about getting insurance for 17 year olds using classic cars ; this is the group of drivers who need the best maintained vehicles , at least until they become comfortable with the vehicle handling .And look at the track record of accident statistics for the younger members of society ( according to Insurance companies ), and I expect it won't be many years before unrestricted use of pre '60 vehicles will be a fond memory , even if it is the cost of insurance which does it .
I'm going back into the bunker now !!!


Merv

Location: New Forest

Re: MOTs to go

Try this Ruairidh!
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/road-cars/opinions/the-real-cost-of-mot-exemption/

Location: Near Bicester

Re: MOTs to go

Thanks Ivor, got distracted!! Should be correct now.

Re: MOTs to go

Can someone check ,but I was led to believe the book actually says, or used to : "MOT valid for the day of issue ony"

Location: sussex by the sea

Re: MOTs to go

Mac

I don't know about the Book, but the new black and white, easily copied, cost cutting version ;- VT20/TRE
MoT Certificate in the section in the bottom RH corner :
About This Document
Item 2. A Test Certificate relates only to the Condition of the components examined at the time of Test.
It does not confirm the vehicle will remain roadworthy for the validity of the certificate.

Issued today for my 17 year old Rav4, but same as the one I had last week for the A7.

I say cost cutting, bearing in mind all the pallaver over the V5C's, now Blue and Red and White .

I think my local garage MoT'er said something about closing, or consolidating MoT Test Centres in areas too, this followed conversation over closing local DVLA offices and doing away with MoT's for <1960 cars.
I visited a local car body repair shop today (social, not work), they can't believe the loss of MoT's either, the stuff they see is nobodies business.. Ok, I sometimes have a peak in there too..

Location: Near Lands End - UK

Re: MOTs to go

It looks as though the general consensus on this site is that the MOT should be retained.Maybe the likes of RH Insurance and other such companies will come to the rescue and insist we have a valid MOT pass before they insure us at their very reasonable rates.

Re: MOTs to go

So, the voluntary option means that we can carry on as before, if we wish, and keep the car officially MOT'd?
Colin

Re: MOTs to go

As a RP owner and MOT tester,I am split on this.
I have a failure rate on all class 1V vehicles of over 40%,this may seen high but although cars may "fail" it may be something as slight as a number plate bulb, so therefore is counted as an initial fail.However if I were to check my failure rate on classic/historic cars I think my pass rate would be in the high 90%s,This is not me being leanient but because the cars are generaly better presented (no child debris mobile offices etc).Most are well loved "children" of the owners, rather than penile extensions,and so better maintained.
From a personal point of view I would prefer a vehicle check every year just to be a reassurance not just to help my income. On the other hand an extra £50.towards the spiraling motoring expenses is most welcome.

Location: CHARD

Re: MOTs to go

Interesting views in this topic. For my own peace of mind I shall continue to have a voluntary check-up at the local and friendly MoT station around once a year. However I do welcome the fact that if a lapse of memory or bad weather occurs around the anniversary of the 'test' I don't have to feel I cannot use the vehicle until a certificate has been obtained. In this world of overbearing red tape it is good to see the necessity to act by a certain date element of a Test consigned to the waste bin.

Now, about this votes for prisoners business .......

Re: MOTs to go

I'm not quite so sure that this 'voluntary MOT' buisiness is well thought out at this point.

It strikes me that once the MOT does not become a requirement, the MOT manual will be revised, removing the exemptions for pre 1960 vehicles, so it would be impossible to obtain a valid MOT even with a car in 100% order.

As for insurance, on the basis I can and do currently insure two roadworthy vehicles exempt from MOT without extortionate premiums (RTA 3rd party premium is £37 and £45 for each vehicle, plus the extras I choose), I hope this will continue to be possible in future with the Austin.

The way things are going, if the insurance underwriters didn't believe there would be a big increase in risk before, they certainly will now reading all this sort of ********* Hell reading this as a third party It would almosr seem you all worry that you are running deathtraps.

Do you guys sweat when you have to cross the road?

Re: MOTs to go

Very few things come for free. When the governent, any governent of any political colour, give something they usually take something back. Beware, this consession might be followed with restrictions on use, or worse an accident proven to be due to a defective vehicle could take us of the road completely. In my opinion to remove the MOT is a serious mistake. Oh! Keep quite about the road tax excemption of we might lose that to balance things up.
Vince Leek

Re: MOTs to go

Hedd Jones
I'm not quite so sure that this 'voluntary MOT' buisiness is well thought out at this point.

It strikes me that once the MOT does not become a requirement, the MOT manual will be revised, removing the exemptions for pre 1960 vehicles, so it would be impossible to obtain a valid MOT even with a car in 100% order.

As for insurance, on the basis I can and do currently insure two roadworthy vehicles exempt from MOT without extortionate premiums (RTA 3rd party premium is £37 and £45 for each vehicle, plus the extras I choose), I hope this will continue to be possible in future with the Austin.

The way things are going, if the insurance underwriters didn't believe there would be a big increase in risk before, they certainly will now reading all this sort of ********* Hell reading this as a third party It would almosr seem you all worry that you are running deathtraps.

Do you guys sweat when you have to cross the road?


WELCOME TO THE MODERN WORLD

Re: MOTs to go

Don't know why but I'm in favour of this. I assume all vintage car/bike owners spend more time looking after their classic's rather than their new car/bike.

After all the same law stands with vintage and new cars - if you get pulled by the police and you'er not road legal i.e. bold tyres, then you get points on your licence.

Bob

Location: Burton

Re: MOTs to go

I have mixed feelings too. Although my MOT man has told me that the modern MOT is totally inappropriate for a historic car and each year it was getting harder to do MOTs on them. He thought they might bring in a special three yearly test.

However, I have arranged with him that I shall continue to bring in Miss Daisy and Sir Herbert for an annual 'look over'. I will feel safer although it might not be necessary.

Location: Haverfordwest

Re: MOTs to go

Interesting point re bald tyres.
Without the need for an externally accredited MOT, I assume the legal position is that we are now self regulating and so self MOT testing (understanding that we have always been responsibile for thelegality ofd vehicles but have at least had an annual oportunity to make sure we were not deluding ourselves as commented above).
So, how close is the law to an MOT specification. Ie a tyre with bad cracks will fail an MOT, but at what point does it become illegal and become an insurance problem were there to be a crash?
Similarly, at what point do A7 brakes become unacceptable in performance and become a legal issue.

All of a sudden a greater understanding of the law becomes an important aspect for us all.
Andy B

Location: Norf Essex

Re: MOTs to go

as a trader it feels to me like the madness has started early.
i stood a show earlier today and was offered an austin 7.but if i didnt mind buying it after november as it is worth more then as it no longer needs an MOT.

also there was an austin 7 super acc offered on this site a few weeks ago.
i`ve tried to buy it but the owner now feel that if he gets it running,it will now be worth much more as it doesnt need an MOT to be road legal any more.

it looks like as long as the engine runs,you can ask full price for a car.because it no longer needs an MOT to be road legal.

were will the madness end

something needs to change in the law to stop scrappers being sold as road legal cars.

Re: MOTs to go

Tony,

I would think that all who are concerned should lobby for at least a 'roadworthy' check on the early vehicles changing hands as we have here in Victoria for all registered vehicles (both road and club).

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/7A14DDDC-3DF3-4ADD-9821-B8C7816777A3/0/VSI26web.pdf

Note that it states tested to comply with the rules applying 'when the vehicle was new'.

Properly set up, it would keep the b*st*rds honest when trying to sell unroadworthy vehicles.

Seems that the government is throwing the baby out in their rush to 'save money'

I think that selling a car with a proper roadworthy certificate would make it more valuable as well.

Tony.

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: MOTs to go

Tony B, I think that the people who think that a car without an MOT is going to be worth more than a car with one must be deluded.
Assuming that a pre 1960 car can be voluntarily MOT'd, it will always be worth considerably more if it has one, all things being equal.
If you are selling it will make sense to get an MOT.
I am in favour of the change because out here in the sticks it is difficult to find a MOT station that is fully aware of the regulations.
Dave

Location: Bonnie Galloway

Re: MOTs to go

Personally I would have thought an enginers report or some sort of certificate provided by a MOT station would increase the value of a vehicle. It will be interesting to hear what the specialist insurers have to say about it.

Location: Haverfordwest

Re: MOTs to go

I dont think it will be long before the traffic police pick up on this MOT change and start stopping Pre 60 cars checking them and putting them of the road . I have been driving A7s legally for 35 years never being stopped in one .I think this is going to change .

Location: Dunbar East Lothian

Re: MOTs to go

Unfortunately Erin Baker, writing in the 'Classics' section of the Motoring Mag in yesterday's Telegraph begins the column with "The good news for owners of cars built before 1960 is that the Department for Transport has just scrapped the MoT for them. That will make a lot of ownerws of old cars very happy ...."
So those of us who prefer the status quo don't seem to have this particular part of the press on our side!

Location: Sunny Colchester

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