Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone has a short radiator cowl ± core lying for a 1925 chummy around anywhere, or are in need of exchanging it for a later one - I have a complete (and quite tidy) brass radiator cowl and restored core from a 1930 Mulliner saloon which I can't use for my rebuild as a pre 1925 chummy.

I've asked around quite a bit looking for a body and although I don't expect to find one for sale, if anyone knows of one that is for sale (or could be with a little bit of gentle coercion!), it would be an amazing leap for the project as no one is currently building that model apart from roach manufacturing who are very good, just a little outside my budget!

I'm after any other bits and bobs for the chummy like hood frames / lights etc as well! I have a set of proper ulster headlights that I'd swap for some tidy scuttle mounted headlights and mounts.

Time to part with the hoard of stuff you'll never use!!! (Please)

Cheers,

Will

Location: Hampshire

So are you that bloke who cut up a Mulliner to make a special?

Location: Round the back

Will.
Woud it be fair to suggest that instead of hoarding your money,purchasing a new one from cherished supplier,or other,may contribute to the wellbeing of the economy at large?

Location: Where ever my mobile phone happens to be just now.

Didn't there used to be a chap in the Rodings in Essex who made Chummy bodies very reasonably?

I'd say you could knock up your own with the right tools and a DVD to teach you how, but then I would!

Martin

There used to be chaps all over the place making reasonably priced parts,but they have all gone out of business as prospective customers wont pay the reasonable asking price.

Location: Where ever my mobile phone happens to be just now.

Do we know that for sure, Ian? Or did he just get fed up, sick, or move away?
He used to advertise in the grey book.

Martin

We're still here making reasonably priced Austin 7 parts and have been for a great many years now.

Location: New Forest

Jolly good. More power to your coachbuilders' elbows.
Martin

OK people, listen up.

Andrew - In answer to your question about me being the person that cut up a Mulliner saloon, the answer is no. This was however the car in question, and was once a beautiful black Mulliner Fabric Saloon, but not in my ownership. The sad truth is that when the previous owner bought the car, he had the full intention of rebuilding as a Mulliner saloon, but as he took the bodywork apart to restore, it literally fell to pieces in his hands and no timbers could be salvaged to copy or re-use. I'd love to meet the person that could fund the huge cost of building of a new Mulliner body. If you have that sort of money to throw at a car then traditionally people move on from the little Austin Seven to bigger more powerful things. There are those out there that have the skill to do it I'm sure, however the price would be astronomical simply because no-one builds the Mulliner (because it is expensive and in the grand scheme of things isn't one of the more desirable Sevens out there - sorry guys, they are lovely but its true). 

I purchaseDd a rolling chassis and engine from an old chap up in north wales on the 2nd December 2009. It turned out to be a rolling chassis with a floor pan and various other parts including a rad cowl / lights / wings. I had no intention of building a Mulliner when I bought a rolling chassis especially since of the coachwork was missing as all the wood was rotten! If you're really interested I have some photos of the car as it was when it was loaded up on the trailer that day, but its not a terribly pretty sight! 

I'd rather hoped that there are some people out there that might actually be excited to see a replica of Charles Metcham's "Earthquake" competing in the near future - I certainly am! For all those out there that mourn the loss of a Mulliner, I join you, but challenge you to rebuild one from the parts I bought.

Secondly, those Traders amongst you!

Tony - I'm sorry, you completely misunderstood the point of my post. I'm not asking people to give things away in order to deliberately stifle business for you and your competitors, I'm saying that I'd like to swap some headlights with a fellow seven enthusiast, and locate a Chummy body/parts that are not in use (for which I would pay in "Her Majesty's finest folding") in order to build my project as accurately as possible. This is after all one of the purposes of this forum is it not? You were key (with Dave Williams of Austineers) in locating a banjo 5.25 rear axle for me a couple of years ago - which I paid you for - which is currently on the car, and I am very happy with it (apart from one hub that turned out to be cracked, and was very kindly replaced for a very costly sum of £5 by Barry Clarke, (the Austin seven icon that is!)

Ian - I'm afraid I can't afford to put money down on a new body at present - read on, and you'll find out I was a student until July - and though it would indeed be beneficial if I could contribute to the UK economy by supporting a small business (even though Roach Manufacturing is actually a world renowned coachwork manufacturer, and has been for some time - look at the Auto Unions!!), I simply can't afford one, and am therefore asking around to find one that is within my current budget. Is that not fair enough? Although the average wage may well be around £35,000, I am fresh out of University - certainly not on £35,000! - and one of those few young people interested in Austin Sevens. By the way, I do spend money in Austin Seven Workshop and had axles built by Austineers too.

Stuart, pricing for the Chummy is reasonable, and having popped by to see you about it the other day, I hope to be in a position to commission one in around 6 months time if I can't find a scruffy one that is lying around in the back of someone's shed in the meantime.

I'm hoping that this has cleared a few things up, but must say I'm rather shocked by the course this post has taken today.

As it happens, I've also had some direct e-mails with rather more helpful replies for which I am grateful, and really do hope for some more!

This is for Austin Seven 'Friends'!! Come on guys.

Location: Hampshire

In the spirit of friendship, perhaps this thread could be started again? Something along the lines of...

"I am hoping to build a replica of Charles Metcham's "Earthquake". Can anyone point me in the directions of people who might be able to build me a 1925 Chummy body so that I can discuss my budget with them?

I have also placed an ad in Sales and Wants.

Any help you can throw my way will be very gratefully received."

Good morning William,

glad to hear that yet more younger blood is enthusiastically pumping around the Austin Seven World.

I have used and can highly recommend the services of Roach Manufacturing and Creative Metalwork (Andrew Goodfellow). Both produce excellent work and a discussion with them would prove enlightening and interesting I am sure.

I have noted your wanted ad and although unable to help with the second hand parts you require at present it may be useful to know that Amilcar John, a regular contributor of this Forum, is looking into having a short run of the rad shells you require manufactured, it may be worth contacting him to note your possible interest.

Good luck with your project, I look forward to seeing photographs of it's progress.

Mr leith 1930 mulliner saloon
Some people think that they are "lovely desirable cars" I for one love my mulliner saloon.my family and I have had a lot of fun and faund memories in the last 7 years that we have owned the car . It is now very apparent your dislike for the mulliner and your total lack of skills contributed to the death of a very rare car and the birth of another special . My view where there is a will there is away .

Location: Cold Dunbar

Good morning again William,

If you think this is bad, try typing the words "Genuine Ulster" "TT Ulster" or "Grasshopper" into this forum for toys to be thrown out of prams (pramhoods?).

Personally, I'm not into replicas of anything, I can't see the point. If you can't have the real thing then just accept it.

"Earthquake" was Metchim's project and development, probably, like you, he did it that way because he could'nt afford anything better. Why not build and develop your own project, using your own ideas and in the style and spirit of those times and then move on to something better just as he and countless others did? Far more worthwhile IMHO.

By the way, I think that "Earthquake" started out as a scoop scuttle chummy didn't it? Whatever it was, it is long gone.

Location: Stretham, Ely, the Fens.

I think that's a bit harsh Frank. If I read William's post correctly he purchased little more than Austin Ltd. originally supplied to Mulliner before they worked their coach building magic on it. One A7 rolling chassis is pretty much like any other of the same date??

Ian Mc.

Location: Shropshire

Ian He got the complete car most of it he sold at the nationally auto jumble .the body had wood worm and was flat pack when he got it but very very restorable . But it's his car he can do and say what he wants about it ,it has been well discussed on this forum ,regards Frank

Location: Cold dunbar

My unreserved apologies, Frank. That isn't what he said on this thread - a different story completely!

Ian Mc.

Location: Shropshire

Hello! I'm not one to defend a Mulliner-slayer, but just one small correction:

The Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) shows that the average gross salary for full-time employees in UK was £26,200 in 2011.

That's gross. And us youngsters for the most part are paying plenty of rent out of the net remnants of that to make every little count when it comes to paying for our cars. And best not to get onto pensions (I doubt I'll have one by the time I get there at the current rate!).

End of lecture.

Geoffrey

Well said Geoffrey

The constant moaning on here by a small number of suppliers does rather get annoying, and I suspect doesn't really do their income much good.

For the record, I have just asked for a quote for some wheel building from a gent on here, but one who has done some of the moaning recently.

The quote is actually very close to what I can build one myself for and he will probably get the work. I need wheels as I now have more wheels with broken spokes than I have with a full set. But and it ia a big but, with a young family, wife just back at work, a very expensive traction engine to maintain, no pension, no pay rise in 4 years, job likely gone in 2 years, I simply cannot afford what is actually a competitive amount to get 5 wheels done. However it may be a month or two before I can justify the cost out of the monthly budget. Last month had a £450 bill for a replacement front spring and various bits associated on the traction engine, and that had me on my knees.

I'm affraid I shall get one wheel done as soon as possible, I have one wheel I know has been rebuilt so will fit it and the new one on the back (where all my breakages have occured), fit the best two others on the front, and relegate the worst to the spare. I may be driving round with either a wheel with a broken spoke as the spare, or perhaps one of the open centre 19's I have untill then!

It might make me a cheapscate, but my car will be on the road and not sat on blocks in the garage. It may be called into commuting service next week while the wifes modern has an MOT and new exhaust.

I think you are both missing the point.

Everyone has a budget, and yes that is restricted by family (3 under 5 yrs), mortgage, insurance, job, (part time), bills (extensive - growing by the month) and A.N. Other. I don't have a Steam engine and that probably frees up some cash ;-).

I would like to have many things that I don't have but I cannot afford them, "c'est la vie"! One day I might, one day I might not, none of them are essential to life, they are luxuries. Just because I cannot afford them does not give me the right to name the suppliers who provide services beyond my disposable income and in doing so perhaps "suggest" their prices are incongruent with my wishes . Their skills and contacts have been built up over a very long "apprenticeship", they work hard, they are entitled to earn an income just as much as we are so that they can buy the things "they" need or "they" cannot make.

I don't think they are moans, they are justified cries of despair.

I am happy to expect others to disagree but these are my thoughts.

hi hedd,

i`m sure you are right theres to much moaning on this site.and yes from the suppliers (ME!) for one.

for me its in responce to the relentless forum members moaning mainly about its to expensive on ebay.or without them pointing fingers its just to expensive full stop.

i guess theres no point in me explaining why its to expensive, as many dont realy want to know,they just want there car on the road.

and yes you may be right the about it loosing sales! or not! i guess that one is down to how many forum members use you in the first place.

but both sides need to be put forward.

and now i dont see you as a cheapscate,we all have difference finances.and dont think i have anymore to throw about than yourself.just because i`m a trader.

I think you are both missing the point.

Some of those in the game of supplying parts are p1ssing off their prospective customers on this forum.

Customers choose who gets their money (or not). and have no need to justify themselves to anyone.

There is currently a good many of austin 7 suppliers, frankly prices are much of a muchness with new stuff, and variable for second hand. By ringing round it is very easy to work out who is competitive, and who is taking the p1ss with prices.

Second hand is a law onto itself, e-bay particularly. A lot of these high prices are idiots who do not have the connections (or are too lazy) to be able to find stuff at reasnoble prices.

While this situation may not continue for ever, at present a prospective customer who may reads a post on here and think to themself ''so and so is a d1ckhead, I'll not bother to ring him, I'll ring so and so instead''.

A good reputation is hard gained but very easily lost.

A good customer is earned, a bad one easily ignored.

Hi Hedd,
I've broken my fair share of spokes and, I'll be honest some of it was down to my own crap wheel rebuilding. Because, for the first time in my life, I have a "professional" quality nipple key it was too easy for me to over tension the spokes; I have found out the hard (expensive!) way what the correct tension should feel like.
There's nothing special about wheel building, having read some of the things you have done in the past on this forum I know that you can do it. Just leave the spokes a little slacker than you think they should be.
It worked for me - when the penny had dropped!

Ian Mc.

Location: Shropshire

The trick is to make a spanner short enough that it can go all the way round without hitting adacent spokes.

R

Ian,

My dead wheels are simply all old useable wheels out of the spares shed or bought at autojumbles. Don't get me wrong they are all tidy wheels, but not rebuilt any time recently.

When I break a spoke I usually fit another wheel, just I've run out and think it may be time to invest in some rebuilt ones. I've got lots of centres to choose from.

As I see you have noted elsewhere, for what I can buy the bits for, It is more cost effective to have someone do it for you. That is assuming they want the buisiness.

I suspect the last breakage may well have been the trip on the wagon home from Boreton in the Water after I broke two wheel studs on one rear hub. I wouldn't let the RAC man strap the wheel with one stud so the other rear probably got a bit of stick.

And before anyone says it, I think I made the studs that broke. Brittle fracture emminating from the root of the stud under the head. Material obviously not suitable, but in my defence it was nearly 15years ago.

Rob, that sounds like the nipple key I had 50 years ago for motor bike wheels - never a problem. This beast is about 4" long - you can pull the nipples through the rim if you go mad!(fits the nipples beautifully though)

Hedd, I couldn't agree more, if you can make more in the time it would take you to do the job than someone competent charges you to do the job for you, let them get on with it.

Ian Mc.

Location: Shropshire

Oops! Sorry if I started something there.... I just wanted to correct the notion that seemed to have been expressed that we are all hiding a pot of gold and still expecting rare parts and skilled services to be peanuts. I don't have a pot of gold, and I also appreciate that hard-working parts suppliers need to expect a decent income in the face of business overheads. I would like to think that Austins are still something that can be run on a shoe string, and on that note I'm a firm believer in learning skills where finances can't pay for someone else to do it. To that end Hedd's advice on this forum has been invaluable to me.

Geoffrey

Just watched this fascinating collection of films:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nyz3p/Storyville_20112012_From_the_Sea_to_the_Land_Beyond_Britains_Coast_on_Film/

...there were at least three instances of Austin Sevens (one camera based..).

Antipodean friends will need to fake up a UK based IP, Google it, someone will have worked up a way around it.

Strikes me Will, all your Wanted ad has done is to yield absolutely nothing but bitter & whinging comments from traders (except Stuart Roach at Roach Manufacturing who has been very helpful to us, commenting about reasonably priced parts) - all of whom you and I have used with no problem (or whinging) about prices, in my case for many years.

You've also had some d a m ning judgment put on you by ill-informed comment about the totally untrue origins of your rolling chassis offered for sale - bank transfer pre-bought over the phone before any knowledge of Mulliner components were thrown free into the deal, (600 mile round trip) - followed by abuse from those just out there to be on the bandwagon...

The previous owner to you had failed everyone by totalling destroying the fabric body - all of it - by burning it. Read again everyone, BURNING IT. Fabric body burnt, nothing left. Got it everyone out there? He moved on, out of Austin 7s so it was better to let someone else have the parts we had no intention of buying in the first place, by recycling to, as it happens, other Mulliner owners in the main.

After you explained the events yesterday, only one humble pie has been eaten by a trader when the penny dropped... Only one. Friends?

Then the thread wandered off onto the subject of wheels... What? This is a thread wanting an original body and radiator, boys?

Do traders stock original bodies and radiator shells? No.

...and still no reply to your wanted ad...

They, including any moderator on this website who still appears absent or anonymous, should all be ashamed of themselves.

I'm shocked by the attitude they have all taken, and only heartened by younger Seven enthusiasts who have privately sent you e-mails sympathising with the lack of help and abuse they too have received in trying to assemble their dream vintage Seven with "help" on this "Friends" website. Friends?

If the guys commenting on this forum know just how off-putting this whole experience has been inside 48hours, then well done - they've succeeded.

Totally "unfriendly" and shocking. As a teenage Sevener who constructed my first Austin 7 Stuart Rolt-bodied Ulsteroid selected from one of Barry Clarke's age-matured array of many rusted out hedge-stored Rubies, pre-run into the ground -(shocking you guys out there reading this yet?) with the help of my brother Martin Eyre in 1978, and now again help provided to you from your Uncle Martin Eyre, I'm appalled by the treatment you have received Will.

What an unnecessary waste of time this web posting is continuing to be - even below this posting this morning! Time to move on, you'll get little help here. I wouldn't bother with this site, no doubt like some others reading this.

Keep up the good work, and let's get your car on the road Will. You've learnt a lot of engineering (& social) skills to date which some of them out there will never learn.

PS - interesting the moderator won't tolerate one harmless word I've had to edit with letter spacing above - d a m n ing - yet does not control off-point comment or abuse on this forum.

PPS As co-founder of www.classicCARSforSALE.co.uk - and now founder of www.ClassicCARama.com for any Private and Trade classic car parts and accessories advertising - I do have experience of running forums and large international classic car websites. Popped in before a tirade of ill-informed comment comes.

Location: New forest

The title of this post is Short Radiator Cowl/Bodywork [1925 Chummy], but there have been only a few replies that match.
Has here been any progress on this?

Talking about moderation, as I understand there are a few simple details about the Forum that often help.
Generally the Forum is for questions and answers on technical and other aspects of the Austin Seven, anything on sales and wants is to be put the front section called, surprisingly 'Sales and Wants'

In the rather sharpish exchanges on this topic, Ruairidh Dunford's suggestion on Nov 21 regarding the first posting by master Leith seems to have been overlooked

He proposed that the initial post could have been better put, and I quote-

In the spirit of friendship, perhaps this thread could be started again? Something along the lines of...

Short Radiator Cowl/Bodywork [1925 Chummy]

"I am hoping to build a replica of Charles Metcham's "Earthquake". Can anyone point me in the directions of people who might be able to build me a 1925 Chummy body so that I can discuss my budget with them?

I have also placed an ad in Sales and Wants.

Any help you can throw my way will be very gratefully received."

If you look back at this message you will see in the very next post Ruairidh's quite reasonable answer.

Tony.

Location: Melbourne, Australia

I'm just wondering to myself why I've been criticised so heavily for posting something that I'm after when there are loads of people that just do - how about the supercharger post by Mike Inglis...? Only one person mentioned Derek Chinn. What about Pigsty Racing!! No one mentioned them - and they actually fitted that supercharger! Who knew that?!

Frank McDonald - you are well within you're right to think what ever you want about me, but you're wrong about me destroying the car. You've branded me as a 'Mulliner Slayer!' (admittedly someone else's words). Quite sad really - if you saw me at Beaulieu, you would have also seen that the only woodwork that was left was a door frame. I still have that door frame and glass if you want it, you're welcome to come and pick it up for free. Thats right! Free. You can even have a cup of coffee when you get here. First Mulliner owner/restorer to send a personal email to me can have it. I can't remember which side it is. I bought a car that was advertised as a rolling chassis and engine. Anything else as previously stated were thrown in as an afterthought. Mr McGowan - you were right, you had indeed read my extensive post correctly.

The fact of the matter is that no-one would have done it up as a Fabric Saloon - you'd all like to think that you would, but fact it, you wouldn't! So cut the cr@p and grow up. It really is sad that another Mulliner is gone, but I'll say it again, it wasn't me - PLUS I bet although you'll never admit it, you're secretly a little pleased that you're Fabric saloon is now one of only two remaining making it even more exclusive. Everyone loves exclusivity - thats one of the reasons people build up specials!

Brian Hutchings - There have been some helpful people suggesting things! Thank you to those people.

Location: Hampshire

Also - Frank, with a 'total lack of skill,' I wouldn't have bought a Seven project to begin with. I'd have been able to buy a working car with that 'pot of gold' that I'm apparently hoarding. I wonder, do you actually read back what you've written to yourself?

Location: Hampshire

Location: The 3D shed, Tewkesbury

What an unpleasant bunch of "friends" .........

If you want to make comments about who did what please get your facts right before jumping in with your assumptions.

Anyone who wishes to have full knowledge of my A7 activities is welcome to ask.

Location: Leafy Surrey

Mike - I'm sorry to have involved you at all. I was trying to make a point about how your post over a year ago wasn't hounded like my post asking for parts. Your defence implies my complete ignorance as to the fitting of that beautiful supercharged engine, so please, if you wouldn't mind, correct me.

Location: Hampshire

A good home has been found for door in question already!

Location: Hampshire

William, the minute you made your post I knew the car in question and the first thing I thought was I'm going to keep my head down, because I could see it was going to stir up the feelings of the friends on the forum!

Your chassis probably has a C suffix or prefix, indicating that it was supplied by the Austin company as a coachbuilt car and it is a rare and desirable thing. That number will undoubtedly be on the Mulliner register and you can bet your boots there will be someone out there that will be prepared to throw in a considerable amount of money and effort to bring the Mulliner saloon back to life.

Far be it from me to influence your decision, but I would be tempted to keep the components you have together as the Mulliner enthusiasts out there gather there thoughts because you could well find that it may be worth selling your chassis and having the funds to buy another AND fund a decent body!

Just an idea...and I can assure you I AM friendly!

Good luck with whatever you decide, you didn't deserve to open the door to Austin Seven ownership only to find the Spanish Inquisition on the other side.

I wish I had the space to offer you a healthy sum to bring the M ulliner back from the dead, but if you take a peep at my web site, you'll see I've got one or two other projects on the go at the moment and my poor old Austin(a humble box saloon, not a posh one like yours!) is currently waiting in the wings.

Stick with us, we're nice bunch really!

Location: Near Bicester

I have spoke to Will this afternoon at length what I can say is he is a lovely young man (22 years old ) Will is certainly not responsible for the destruction of the mulliner saloon . The car was advertised twice in the last 5 or 6 years as a complete car before being advertised as a rolling chassis with bits . When Will bought the chassis there were no body timbers for reconstruction or for templating . I wish Will well in his new project and apologise for any discomfort I may have caused him regards Frank

Location: Cold Dunbar

This is good news Frank.

Hopefully now that most of the angst has disappeared, may I help with a few thoughts. One - Metchim's car was an Ulster with a 1923/24 scoop-scuttle body (NOT a 1925, although the radshells/cores are fairly much the same), heavily chopped about, and part of a Super Sports scuttle added on. It had the larger lights that are apparently being offered for swap, yet they'll be needed? So perhaps further research is necessary before tackling the job? Two - it seems a pity to read of someone willing to pay for a body (new or used) that could otherwise be used on an original car but would need to be chopped about/ruined to look like Metchim's. Three - the ideal solution would be for the aspirant to build a replica body himself, but I realise sadly there's only a one in five hundred chance that he's lucky enough to have the ability/patience/dosh to do a reasonable job. How many times do we read of prospective plans for a special where the project has not come to fruition - a case of enthusiasm over-riding practicality? Nevertheless, William, I'd suggest you have a go at building the body yourself, after all because it's a special it doesn't have to be perfect. Lastly, I do agree with Tony P - you would have avoided all this correspondence if you had put your request where it belonged - in Sales & Wants, not in the Forum. Cheers, Bill

Location: Mount Eliza, (not a mountain but hilly, overlooking the Bay) Australia

When placing ads in the For Sales and Wants section can I recommend including a telephone number as there appears to be a glitch in the e-mail link section. I have responded to a good many ads over the years and never hear back from the person I have contacted (maybe I should read into this!). However, on two occasions I have received a response 6 months after responding to say that they have 'just' got my e-mail and have found/sold the item/s listed. I don't know if anything can be done but I would recommend listing your number as well.

Has this happened to others?

Keep hunting Will, it is all still out there, I bought a complete short rad and core at Beaulieu in september, for less than the price of a replica shell, from a well known A7 nut.
Note to all: some of us simply prefer to use and restore original parts where possible, nothing to do with price.
Winston

Location: knee deep in chains

Don't be put off having a go at making the body yourself! You have an Austin Chummy floorpan, once you fit the correct shape bulkhead and position the dashboard, the rest should fall into place quite easily. try a simple mock-up using bits of wood and thin cardboard in place of the alloy. If you can make it in cardboard, you can do it in alloy. Once made of course, you will need to attack it with a large mallet to achieve the authentic Earthquake appearance.
As regards recreating a fabric saloon, I have built a replica Pytchley from scratch, it should be on the road next year. It would have been easier to buy an Ulster body (and no doubt far more sensible from a financial point of view),but it comes back to that business of exclusivity. As far as I know there is no other Pytchley in existence (not that I would claim that my special is anything other than that). I will attempt to post some photos for your amusement.

I would think that if restoring an original car then it is best to try and source original parts but if building a reproduction then does it really matter- it won't be real anyway.

Tony.

Location: Melbourne, Australia